siddiqi_drinker 14,635 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, tm91 said: This is it, basically. Argentina don't adapt to Messi, they just blindly hope he can get them out of trouble every game. We're getting to the point now where you can start to safely say that Argentina has wasted Leo Messi. They've been given arguably the greatest professional footballer the world has ever known and he's completely wasted on them. Maradona only won a World Cup because he had an excellent manager and a structured side around him. Messi has had shit managers, no structure, no tactical nous and an incompetent FA his entire stint. And he's still their top scorer ever. Problem with Argentina seems to run deeper than that, they appear incapable of playing as a team and they certainly lack any obvious team-spirit. In the Maradonna days there always appeared to be a camaraderie in the squad, whether that was down to the players, the manager or both I have no idea, but seems to be missing from this group. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sRcFoCt 7,578 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Just now, Inigo said: There's that reversing through puberty thing again. So strange. ? FFS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the goal machine 7,765 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 21 minutes ago, Inigo said: Also though, Messi is the only one that's proper top rung, whereas Croatia have two in Modric and Rakitic. Even Kovacic would be Argentina's best CM by a country mile. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miracle 7,764 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersMedia 35,961 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, siddiqi_drinker said: Problem with Argentina seems to run deeper than that, they appear incapable of playing as a team and they certainly lack any obvious team-spirit. In the Maradonna days there always appeared to be a camaraderie in the squad, whether that was down to the players, the manager or both I have no idea, but seems to be missing from this group. Probably down to the cocaine mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo 32,524 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 1 minute ago, the goal machine said: Even Kovacic would be Argentina's best CM by a country mile. Yup. Croatia have more top rung players (2 to 1) as well as a higher average quality through the team. Other than Messi, I tend to think their forward line is overrated as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
siddiqi_drinker 14,635 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 1 minute ago, psb07158 said: Probably down to the cocaine mate. No I wrote that before I........ Oh yeah, see what you mean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie Walnuts 1,061 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, miracle said: When you remember you have meza in your team today and not iniesta. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoopsLaud 4,184 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 9 minutes ago, Inigo said: Half right. Half wrong but. No good enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlearyEyedBear 4,148 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 18 minutes ago, CoopsLaud said: Agreed. Blur and Ronaldo are obviously the answers. There’s no other way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo 32,524 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, CoopsLaud said: Half wrong but. No good enough. Naebdy's perfect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hilts 12,819 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Argies will still go through. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedylan 11,555 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, Inigo said: Yup. Croatia have more top rung players (2 to 1) as well as a higher average quality through the team. Other than Messi, I tend to think their forward line is overrated as well. The Balkans is an incredible area for producing players yet their leagues are very weak...strange Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersMedia 35,961 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, tm91 said: Messi was a big reason they got to those finals, and a team with the talent of Argentina should be competing for competitions at least. They've gotten to finals in spite of themselves I'd argue. To be honest mate, I was thinking this the other day.. if Messi was born the other side of the River Plate he'd probably have won the World Cup by now. Fair comment! 3 minutes ago, Rangers_no1 said: Do they really though? That starting 11 tonight was horrific bar Messi and Aguero. Aguero hardly got a touch of the ball. Mascherano, Meza, Perez, Acuna and Salvio as the middle 5 is average. Said it the other day, Portugal have a better 11 than Argentina. Argentina have some top attacking players, but they all can't play, whilst the rest of the cast is horrific. Some great posts previously, Portugal play to Ronaldo's strengths. Was horrific against Morocco but scored for a set play situation, had a good game against Spain but it was down to a goalkeeping howler, penalty and a world class free kick. Both are two different type of players, Ronaldo can play through the middle and be a goalscorer, Messi is asked to create and score, whilst have no movement off the ball and footballer who little intelligence or ones who can play quick one two passes etc. Banega, Di Maria, Dybala should have be playing. I don't even think Aguero's style of play fits with Messi mate. Not once did Aguero go in behind when Messi had the ball - the way Suarez does at Barca or the way David Villa did before him. He keeps wanting the ball played into feet but he's not very good at the quick 1-2s. The game against Iceland I think I counted 5 times Messi laid the ball into Aguero and wanted a quick lay-off and Aguero didn't find the return pass once I almost think they'd be better off with Icardi starting because he's more of a hard working striker who will put in the hard yards behind opposing defences so there's space for Messi to work, plus Icardi's goalscoring record at Inter is pretty similar to Aguero's in terms of goals-per-game so not losing much on that front Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersMedia 35,961 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 12 minutes ago, tm91 said: Yeah that's a good point mate. The 40 odd players used and the turnaround with managers has hurt them big time. They don't know what they want to do, how they want to do it, or who should even be playing. Changing their tactics on a whim tonight was evident of that. A perfect example of that is how Sampaoli has totally moved away from his own philosophy of a high intensity, high pressing game which worked so well for him when he was Chile manager. He tried to implement it when he took over the team, but after they drew 1-1 at home to Venezuela he was absolutely fucking shot to pieces by the media and ex-players and managers in Argentina because they absolutely battered Venezuela but still couldn't win So he doubted whether he had the players to play that style and moved to what we see today, which is..."give the ball to Messi and hope he wins us the game" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the goal machine 7,765 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, psb07158 said: Fair comment! I don't even think Aguero's style of play fits with Messi mate. Not once did Aguero go in behind when Messi had the ball - the way Suarez does at Barca or the way David Villa did before him. He keeps wanting the ball played into feet but he's not very good at the quick 1-2s. The game against Iceland I think I counted 5 times Messi laid the ball into Aguero and wanted a quick lay-off and Aguero didn't find the return pass once I almost think they'd be better off with Icardi starting because he's more of a hard working striker who will put in the hard yards behind opposing defences so there's space for Messi to work, plus Icardi's goalscoring record at Inter is pretty similar to Aguero's in terms of goals-per-game so not losing much on that front It's a shame Icardi is a mad shagger and the Maxi Lopez thing has fucked his chances for the NT basically. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAndEver 70,940 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Both are quality and both are wanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersMedia 35,961 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Just now, the goal machine said: It's a shame Icardi is a mad shagger and the Maxi Lopez thing has fucked his chances for the NT basically. You can just tell the guy is an absolute weapon. From that thing with Maxi Lopez, to slating the Inter fans whilst captaining the club etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurrayWilson 3,269 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 This year really could be the year when a real dark horse wins the thing. Every world cup an outsider gets talked up but they never live up to it. Croatia and Belgium are as good as anyone there and there is absolutely no reason they cant win it. None at all. I only wish I had backed one of them on their decent odds at the start. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlearyEyedBear 4,148 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 What do they put in the water in Croatia? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sRcFoCt 7,578 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 1 minute ago, BlearyEyedBear said: What do they put in the water in Croatia? I don't know but I'm willing to bet it ends in "ić" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vision 16,680 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harlands plater 16,933 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 1 hour ago, sRcFoCt said: I don't know but I'm willing to bet it ends in "ić" Tonic water? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAndEver 70,940 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Iceland and Serbia double is 7.8/1 surely a good shout? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMB 14,167 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Messi is the best of all time? He might not even be the best in his own time. Ronaldo has won the Ballon d'Or 4 times in the last 5 years. He's won the Champions League 4 times in the last 5 years. He's been the top scorer in the Champions League 6 years running. Ronaldo has also been carrying Portugal with his goals in this World Cup including a very special hat-trick against Spain. Let's also not forget that Ronaldo was very special in English football with Man United winning just about everything with them and had a 42 goal season in 2007/08. I remember Rivaldo being called the best player in World football but after he left Barcelona and went to AC Milan he sat on the subs bench. If Messi is so good let's see him leave Barcelona, move to a different club in a different country, and go dominate world football there. I think doing it in two different countries would add more credibility to this 'best of all time' label. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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