jjbscotty12 3,560 Posted December 3, 2019 Author Share Posted December 3, 2019 On 01/12/2019 at 20:08, ForeverAndEver said: Probably because he's good enough, and their scouts don't have a hard on for Katic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAndEver 71,374 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 1 minute ago, jjbscotty12 said: Better than golden boy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjbscotty12 3,560 Posted December 3, 2019 Author Share Posted December 3, 2019 13 minutes ago, ForeverAndEver said: Better than golden boy I know he’s better than Goldson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAndEver 71,374 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 1 minute ago, jjbscotty12 said: I know he’s better than Goldson. Poor patter my man Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAndEver 71,374 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, Rangers_no1 said: @ForeverAndEver struggling here imho. Usual input from you, 1-0 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjbscotty12 3,560 Posted December 3, 2019 Author Share Posted December 3, 2019 6 minutes ago, ForeverAndEver said: Poor patter my man The golden boy is Goldson surely? He’s never out the team regardless of his form. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAndEver 71,374 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Just now, jjbscotty12 said: The golden boy is Goldson surely? He’s never out the team regardless of his form. Among fans I was meaning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAndEver 71,374 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Rangers_no1 said: Gay I know you are but what am I? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del 667 Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 7 hours ago, graeme_4 said: He is very slow, just manages it well. He isnt very slow though... In comparison to some attackers, yes he will be slower, but hes not THAT slow for a CB. Go and watch the 2nd goal we conceded against Feyenoord, the guy that scores it is known for being rapid and Heland actual catches up to him and forces him back! What happens after that is well known, but it wasnt a lack of pace that cost the goal. I put a similar post up earlier in this thread detailing every goal we have conceded this season, guess how many of them were due to being caught out by a through ball/ball in behind/lack of pace....zero! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronniescu 2,965 Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 3 hours ago, Del said: I put a similar post up earlier in this thread detailing every goal we have conceded this season, guess how many of them were due to being caught out by a through ball/ball in behind/lack of pace....zero! Have you checked how many goals we have lost due to a clusterfuck in the right back area, or due to the right back being posted missing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeparateEntityMyArse 53,626 Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 5 hours ago, Del said: He isnt very slow though... In comparison to some attackers, yes he will be slower, but hes not THAT slow for a CB. Go and watch the 2nd goal we conceded against Feyenoord, the guy that scores it is known for being rapid and Heland actual catches up to him and forces him back! What happens after that is well known, but it wasnt a lack of pace that cost the goal. I put a similar post up earlier in this thread detailing every goal we have conceded this season, guess how many of them were due to being caught out by a through ball/ball in behind/lack of pace....zero! Such a terrible example of arguing his speed. Watch the move unfold and he is the most central defender with yards on the player who scores. His lack of pace is part of why the guy reaches so far into the box instead of being challenged sooner. He does tend to read game well and is certainly improving from early games. But theres no doubting some of his challenges are pretty last ditch due to the pace issue. Fucking cripple with one knee showed him up on Sunday at one point. 634965599_FeyenoordvsRangers(2-2)UEFAEuropaLeagueHighlights.mp4.b7b69c8297389eab0067e7ff4bd05f20-1.mp4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del 667 Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 1 hour ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said: Such a terrible example of arguing his speed. Watch the move unfold and he is the most central defender with yards on the player who scores. His lack of pace is part of why the guy reaches so far into the box instead of being challenged sooner. He does tend to read game well and is certainly improving from early games. But theres no doubting some of his challenges are pretty last ditch due to the pace issue. Fucking cripple with one knee showed him up on Sunday at one point. 634965599_FeyenoordvsRangers(2-2)UEFAEuropaLeagueHighlights.mp4.b7b69c8297389eab0067e7ff4bd05f20-1.mp4 A terrible example? The guy running with the ball is one of, if not THE fastest player in the Feyenoord team and although the angle makes it look like he has yards on the striker, he doesnt! I'm not sure what that top picture is meant to show? Watch it again and compare the position of Goldson with Helander's, the attacker pulls away from Goldson as he runs through but Helander actually catches up to him. Which one is the slower of the two again? The part about the lack of pace allowing him to get "so far into the box" is nonsense, hes 1-2 yards in the box when Helander gets to him...the guys is running clean through of course hes going to get the ball forward, but then Helander looses his footing, his "lack of pace" is not why we conceded that goal. As for Sunday, he strolled it, other than one instance where Naismith almost got the ball from him, again watch it back, if anything he is guilty of misjudging the flight of the ball but for me as I said earlier, he has now played in all but 1 (I think) of the group games in Europe this season and played a fair few league games and we havent conceded a goal due to him being beat in a footrace/outpaced/whatever you want to call it. Even chances allowed on our goal, look at the stats and clips from those games, aye he might be slower than Goldson or Edmundson (who is rapid) and slower than some other defenders, but you would think he has 1 leg the way some folk go on about it here! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del 667 Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 3 hours ago, ronniescu said: Have you checked how many goals we have lost due to a clusterfuck in the right back area, or due to the right back being posted missing? If you read the post you will see that it details every goal we have conceded, but to save you from reading too much or having to count, of all the goals we have conceded this season so far 3 of them have been as a direct result of the RB being "posted missing" or making a mistake. Although I'm not sure about the posted missing part, as I am positive he will be up the field attacking like he is instructed to do? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSuedeSambas 53,754 Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, Del said: If you read the post you will see that it details every goal we have conceded, but to save you from reading too much or having to count, of all the goals we have conceded this season so far 3 of them have been as a direct result of the RB being "posted missing" or making a mistake. Although I'm not sure about the posted missing part, as I am positive he will be up the field attacking like he is instructed to do? There was somebody trying to blame Tav for Feyenoord’s second goal on Thursday night Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeparateEntityMyArse 53,626 Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 36 minutes ago, Del said: A terrible example? The guy running with the ball is one of, if not THE fastest player in the Feyenoord team and although the angle makes it look like he has yards on the striker, he doesnt! I'm not sure what that top picture is meant to show? Watch it again and compare the position of Goldson with Helander's, the attacker pulls away from Goldson as he runs through but Helander actually catches up to him. Which one is the slower of the two again? The part about the lack of pace allowing him to get "so far into the box" is nonsense, hes 1-2 yards in the box when Helander gets to him...the guys is running clean through of course hes going to get the ball forward, but then Helander looses his footing, his "lack of pace" is not why we conceded that goal. As for Sunday, he strolled it, other than one instance where Naismith almost got the ball from him, again watch it back, if anything he is guilty of misjudging the flight of the ball but for me as I said earlier, he has now played in all but 1 (I think) of the group games in Europe this season and played a fair few league games and we havent conceded a goal due to him being beat in a footrace/outpaced/whatever you want to call it. Even chances allowed on our goal, look at the stats and clips from those games, aye he might be slower than Goldson or Edmundson (who is rapid) and slower than some other defenders, but you would think he has 1 leg the way some folk go on about it here! You're arguing several things I'm not disagreeing with. Goldson is largely at fault here too. But this doesn't prove Helander is faster than Goldson ffs. I've also not said his lack of pace was the reason for losing the goal. I am saying it's a shit example for demonstrating he isn't slow. The image you want to not be sure of what it shows clearly shows a snapshot of who has the head start as soon as we see Helander coming into the tv screen image. And its Helander. If you dont see that as a head start and strong position against the scorer you're at it. Helander is then racing against a player who runs onto the ball but has to carry it whilst heading towards goal, Helander hardly excels here, but nor does it in this instance impact as the main reason for the loss of the goal. No one in saying hes one legged, cant run, runs as fast as others walk backwards. But if you cant see a noticeable lack of pace the player has then you're either blind or just dont want to accept just criticism of him. Either way, you're wrong. Just because we dont lose goals doesn't mean it's not an issue. Last ditch tackles, goalkeeper saves, not been fully exposed by fast players are contributory factors too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
graeme_4 34,376 Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 1 hour ago, DBBTB said: There was somebody trying to blame Tav for Feyenoord’s second goal on Thursday night Not blaming him, but being 50 yards up the park not long after we’ve taken the lead in an away European tie isn’t the most sensible. Sometimes needs to just hold our shape. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del 667 Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 25 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said: You're arguing several things I'm not disagreeing with. Goldson is largely at fault here too. But this doesn't prove Helander is faster than Goldson ffs. I've also not said his lack of pace was the reason for losing the goal. I am saying it's a shit example for demonstrating he isn't slow. The image you want to not be sure of what it shows clearly shows a snapshot of who has the head start as soon as we see Helander coming into the tv screen image. And its Helander. If you dont see that as a head start and strong position against the scorer you're at it. Helander is then racing against a player who runs onto the ball but has to carry it whilst heading towards goal, Helander hardly excels here, but nor does it in this instance impact as the main reason for the loss of the goal. No one in saying hes one legged, cant run, runs as fast as others walk backwards. But if you cant see a noticeable lack of pace the player has then you're either blind or just dont want to accept just criticism of him. Either way, you're wrong. Just because we dont lose goals doesn't mean it's not an issue. Last ditch tackles, goalkeeper saves, not been fully exposed by fast players are contributory factors too. I dont think that Helander is faster than Goldson but in that clip the striker visibly pulls away from Goldson yet Helander catches him , the point has always been and still is that hes not as slow as people are suggesting he is. The image you have posted is a mile out, although you have suggested that Helander has a headstart, if you watch the goal again Goldson, Helander and Barasic are facing the ball dropping back but as it is passed over the halfway line they turn and start running back as they realise that the boy who plays it through is free, but again you can already see the goalscorer sprinting through the middle past Ryan Jack, so although you think that Helander has a headstart as he is slightly deeper than the goalscorer, its actually the attacker who has already got a head of steam and is running at the defence before our guys have even turned round and started running. Look at this below, which is when the ball is played through: Look at the distance between Goldson and the attacker, he could almost touch him... Yet when he gets into the box, despite the attacker already being in full flow, as is Helander and Goldson, he doesnt manage to run away from Helander? Despite him having a "noticeable" lack of pace? I'm happy to admit that he is slower than some of our other CB's but if that had been a defender as slow as people are suggesting its a 1vs1 with the GK and Helander doesnt get back to make the challenge. Either way, every statement you make is finished by saying that I am blind, at it, cant accept "just" criticism or that either way I am wrong...but the problem is that none of it is just criticism. Is he slower than some of our other CB's - Yes. Has him being slower than those other CB's been detrimental to the team - No. Would we benefit from playing someone quicker in that position as they would do a better job than him - No! The very definition of the word criticism is to express disapproval of someone due to their faults or mistakes yet as you have said yourself, his "lack of pace" hasnt lead to any goals and as I also said in my original post, after watching clips/extended highlights of our games that none of the goals we conceded or chances at goal we received were, in my opinion, due to lack of pace, so again, why are we being critical of how fast he is? Its similar to being critical of a defender for being too short, yet he never loses a header, its easy to point out that he is smaller than others but if they are not getting beat in the air, what difference does it make? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeparateEntityMyArse 53,626 Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Del said: I dont think that Helander is faster than Goldson but in that clip the striker visibly pulls away from Goldson yet Helander catches him , the point has always been and still is that hes not as slow as people are suggesting he is. The image you have posted is a mile out, although you have suggested that Helander has a headstart, if you watch the goal again Goldson, Helander and Barasic are facing the ball dropping back but as it is passed over the halfway line they turn and start running back as they realise that the boy who plays it through is free, but again you can already see the goalscorer sprinting through the middle past Ryan Jack, so although you think that Helander has a headstart as he is slightly deeper than the goalscorer, its actually the attacker who has already got a head of steam and is running at the defence before our guys have even turned round and started running. Look at this below, which is when the ball is played through: Look at the distance between Goldson and the attacker, he could almost touch him... Yet when he gets into the box, despite the attacker already being in full flow, as is Helander and Goldson, he doesnt manage to run away from Helander? Despite him having a "noticeable" lack of pace? I'm happy to admit that he is slower than some of our other CB's but if that had been a defender as slow as people are suggesting its a 1vs1 with the GK and Helander doesnt get back to make the challenge. Either way, every statement you make is finished by saying that I am blind, at it, cant accept "just" criticism or that either way I am wrong...but the problem is that none of it is just criticism. Is he slower than some of our other CB's - Yes. Has him being slower than those other CB's been detrimental to the team - No. Would we benefit from playing someone quicker in that position as they would do a better job than him - No! The very definition of the word criticism is to express disapproval of someone due to their faults or mistakes yet as you have said yourself, his "lack of pace" hasnt lead to any goals and as I also said in my original post, after watching clips/extended highlights of our games that none of the goals we conceded or chances at goal we received were, in my opinion, due to lack of pace, so again, why are we being critical of how fast he is? Its similar to being critical of a defender for being too short, yet he never loses a header, its easy to point out that he is smaller than others but if they are not getting beat in the air, what difference does it make? Got bored reading halfway through that tbh. But if you're suggesting that the movement from image 1 to image 2 proves hes not slow (he clearly again in your images has a headstart) then you've failed to do so. Which is why I've said it's a shit example of Helanders pace. Regardless of how Goldson chases back, Helander in this example simply doesn't prove he doesn't lack pace. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAndEver 71,374 Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 That’s definitely an argument I’m not reading Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del 667 Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 Just now, SeparateEntityMyArse said: Got bored reading halfway through that tbh. But if you're suggesting that the movement from image 1 to image 2 proves hes not slow (he clearly again in your images has a headstart) then you've failed to do so. Which is why I've said it's a shit example of Helanders pace. Regardless of how Goldson chases back, Helander in this example simply doesn't prove he doesn't lack pace. Got bored because it questions your point that cant possibly be wrong? haha How anyone can look at those images and watch the clip and not understand that the striker (who has a running start on our entire defence) pulls away from Goldson and that he doesnt pull away from Helander is beyond me. Your head start argument is sheer nonsense, someone already running forward should always have an advantage over someone who is having to turn and run, especially when that player is so quick and up against another player "lacking in pace". As I said before, every time you say something its with a snidey wee comment and you can keep saying things are wrong, failed, whatever else you want to but the fact your not even considering what I am saying just shows that you are either a moron or ignorant, maybe both, so we will just leave it there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del 667 Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, ForeverAndEver said: That’s definitely an argument I’m not reading I wouldnt either to be honest 😁 It's essentially a wee guy getting upset and throwing his toys out the pram because someone has challenged his opinion that cant be wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAndEver 71,374 Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Del said: I wouldnt either to be honest 😁 It's essentially a wee guy getting upset and throwing his toys out the pram because someone has challenged his opinion that cant be wrong. Haha yes, fucking inty him Del boy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeparateEntityMyArse 53,626 Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 Just now, Del said: I wouldnt either to be honest 😁 It's essentially a wee guy getting upset and throwing his toys out the pram because someone has challenged his opinion that cant be wrong. 😂 and still waiting for you to prove he's not slow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeparateEntityMyArse 53,626 Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 1 minute ago, ForeverAndEver said: Haha yes, fucking inty him Del boy Me and you, square go on Sunday at the Final. Oh that's right, you cant. ☹ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del 667 Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 Just now, SeparateEntityMyArse said: 😂 and still waiting for you to prove he's not slow. I was never trying to prove he's not slow, I've said multiple times hes slower than some of our other CB's, perhaps that's why you got so wound up? You didnt understand the argument? But then it would appear you are easily bored, so we wont go there again 👍 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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