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Time for a new manager?


Dave Hedgehog

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1 minute ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

Are you really of the belief that if we dont have our best 11 on the park then we arent as good as the lesser teams we face, 

Outwith our starting 11 we have a bench containing, 

Kamara, defoe, kamberi, jones, ojo, polster, edmunson, katic, arfield

Theres absolutely no excuse for gerrard not being able to change games with that bench, 

I think we could be missing half our first team and still be better than any other team outside of celtic in the league.

Being better than them does not mean that you are sure fire going to win though.

You seem to still be ignoring the fact that he did change the game at the weekend, taking us from 0-1 to 2-1. I have said and proved this numerous times, yet you fail to take it on board.

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12 minutes ago, DBBTB said:

Basically every top team in Europe play “one upfront” that isn’t the problem.

The lack of goal threat and penetration from midfield and a lack of contribution from our widemen is what makes the 4-3-3 not work as well as it should.

Not every team in Europe will face ten men behind the ball every game

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Just now, mitre_mouldmaster said:

I think we could be missing half our first team and still be better than any other team outside of celtic in the league.

Being better than them does not mean that you are sure fire going to win though.

You seem to still be ignoring the fact that he did change the game at the weekend, taking us from 0-1 to 2-1. I have said and proved this numerous times, yet you fail to take it on board.

I have taken that on board, infact i have praised him for it, then he decided to change back and we lost our footing in the game

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16 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

Well yes he did.

If you dont think so then its your issue, but he did change it and we went from 0-1 to 2-1. That is just a fact. It cannot be denied.

I agree, I think he should have hooked Katic, but this is a different issue to the one where people are pretending he did not change tactics.

When he subbed morelos and hagi he reverted back to the first half system that was rotten, when katic sold the equaliser we didn't look like scoring the winner due to said rotten system

I actually agreed with morelos coming off, but stewart should have went up front with kamberi and we should have kept two up front that caused st johnstone lots of issues

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1 minute ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

I agree we dont have a like for like replacement, so gerrard trying the same system without the players is surely his fault no? 

I said earlier that he needs to adapt our system to suit the style of players available and i think he's been trying that recently tbh, that's why Flanagan and Ojo haven't played.

His substitutions and the change in tactics against Braga won the game. Even against St Johnstone, i don't think bringing Davis on to help control the game and slow it down was a bad substitution to make tbh - the defence fucked that game, not the formation.

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1 minute ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

When he subbed morelos and hagi he reverted back to the first half system that was rotten, when katic sold the equaliser we didn't look like scoring the winner due to said rotten system

I actually agreed with morelos coming off, but stewart should have went up front with kamberi and we should have kept two up front that caused st johnstone lots of issues

To be honest, we are almost in agreement, its just our final conclusion that is making us argue.

He is learning. He changed the system and got us back into the game. This is something he probably would not have done a month ago.

I also agree with you that I wanted Morelos off for a straight swap with Stewart.

I think the ultimate fuck up in this game was by Katic, which cost us the points. Had Katic not fucked up, then we would be talking the positives about the changes to the system that got us back into the game. They didnt really threaten apart from the Katic fuck up.

I still like Gerard and thinking he is doing as good a job as we can hope for given our circumstances, although that is on the basis that this is just a bad patch and we recover. If the football is torture for the rest of the season, then I will probably come over to your viewpoint.

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3 minutes ago, BlueMe said:

I said earlier that he needs to adapt our system to suit the style of players available and i think he's been trying that recently tbh, that's why Flanagan and Ojo haven't played.

His substitutions and the change in tactics against Braga won the game. Even against St Johnstone, i don't think bringing Davis on to help control the game and slow it down was a bad substitution to make tbh - the defence fucked that game, not the formation.

Davis on might have been alright, although i wouldnt have subbed hagi as he could hold the ball up, kent would have been my choice, but bringing stewart on and playing him as number ten instead of having him right up top where morelos was meant st johnstone defence had less pressure on them, 

Why he changed from the 2 up top when it was working is mental, he found something that worked and then deviated from it

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3 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

To be honest, we are almost in agreement, its just our final conclusion that is making us argue.

He is learning. He changed the system and got us back into the game. This is something he probably would not have done a month ago.

I also agree with you that I wanted Morelos off for a straight swap with Stewart.

I think the ultimate fuck up in this game was by Katic, which cost us the points. Had Katic not fucked up, then we would be talking the positives about the changes to the system that got us back into the game. They didnt really threaten apart from the Katic fuck up.

I still like Gerard and thinking he is doing as good a job as we can hope for given our circumstances, although that is on the basis that this is just a bad patch and we recover. If the football is torture for the rest of the season, then I will probably come over to your viewpoint.

Is obvious that u like gerrard. The fact that his 433 has failed against scottish opposition is equally obvious and that is his fault as is the fact that the 2nd goal was in the post and sg never subbed katic. Sg is to blame.

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4 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

To be honest, we are almost in agreement, its just our final conclusion that is making us argue.

He is learning. He changed the system and got us back into the game. This is something he probably would not have done a month ago.

I also agree with you that I wanted Morelos off for a straight swap with Stewart.

I think the ultimate fuck up in this game was by Katic, which cost us the points. Had Katic not fucked up, then we would be talking the positives about the changes to the system that got us back into the game. They didnt really threaten apart from the Katic fuck up.

I still like Gerard and thinking he is doing as good a job as we can hope for given our circumstances, although that is on the basis that this is just a bad patch and we recover. If the football is torture for the rest of the season, then I will probably come over to your viewpoint.

I think what gets me is that he never goes for it in terms of getting the 2 goal lead, we were creating chances at 2-1 that could have wrapped up the game, 

We didnt create one chance other than kamberi's handball in the final 15mins after their goal, 

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Just now, crazy bob swollenbaws said:

Is obvious that u like gerrard. The fact that his 433 has failed against scottish opposition is equally obvious and that is his fault as is the fact that the 2nd goal was in the post and sg never subbed katic. Sg is to blame.

His 433 worked fucking brilliantly in the first half of the season.

Gerard dint make Katic header the ball like a performing seal, he expected him to do better. It is mainly Katic's fault as he is paid mega bucks to perform well. It is also Gerards fault for not bringing him off.

I dont want Katic sold as I think he can become a great player. I dont want Gerard sacked as I think he is doing a good job although going through a bad spell.

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1 minute ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

His 433 worked fucking brilliantly in the first half of the season.

Gerard dint make Katic header the ball like a performing seal, he expected him to do better. It is mainly Katic's fault as he is paid mega bucks to perform well. It is also Gerards fault for not bringing him off.

I dont want Katic sold as I think he can become a great player. I dont want Gerard sacked as I think he is doing a good job although going through a bad spell.

U are Clutching at straws. Just as we try to improve, so does the opposition. That is what the wee teams have done. 

And gerrard has most certainly fucked katic confidence now.  His job is not just to keep changing players until he lucks out and we are successful. That seems to be the attitude tho.

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2 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

I think what gets me is that he never goes for it in terms of getting the 2 goal lead, we were creating chances at 2-1 that could have wrapped up the game, 

We didnt create one chance other than kamberi's handball in the final 15mins after their goal, 

I know mate. It is infuriating, although I kind of understand.

If we had went hell for leather trying to get a 3rd, and instead O'Halloran had hit us on the counter and popped one in I would have been equally fuming.

Summary is this for me:-

Starting formation : Teams have either figured it out or it only works on nice pitches. Gerard was wrong for doing it again.

Change of formation : Worked a treat and had a great effect. Positive and deserves praise.

Further change : Can understand it, but it didnt work. Negative.

If he can get us starting with this new formation, at least till we are playing on a decent surface again, then we will be back on track, although the damage may be done for this year. We should be prepared for if it happens again though. 

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It's a cunt of a situation that's totally our own doing. Really hate the way we do business when it comes to backroom staff. 

Gerrard has a good run from July to December, so we give him (and his backroom staff) a 2 year extension on his already existing 4 year contract. 

TLB takes over from Brenda and sees them over the line for the treble, then gets them through to the last 32 of Uefa... He's on a 12 month ROLLING contract, so as soon as he fucks up they can ditch him. 

Why the fuck are we handing out extensions to a manager who still has 2 years on his contract? 

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1 hour ago, DBBTB said:

Basically every top team in Europe play “one upfront” that isn’t the problem.

The lack of goal threat and penetration from midfield and a lack of contribution from our widemen is what makes the 4-3-3 not work as well as it should.

I watched Chelsea against Man U and it’s like watching us.

Kante, Jorginho and Kovacevic in middle and 2 wide strikers who don’t score.

Chelsea’s goals recently from Rudiger, Alonso and Giroud chipped in.

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26 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

I know mate. It is infuriating, although I kind of understand.

If we had went hell for leather trying to get a 3rd, and instead O'Halloran had hit us on the counter and popped one in I would have been equally fuming.

Summary is this for me:-

Starting formation : Teams have either figured it out or it only works on nice pitches. Gerard was wrong for doing it again.

Change of formation : Worked a treat and had a great effect. Positive and deserves praise.

Further change : Can understand it, but it didnt work. Negative.

If he can get us starting with this new formation, at least till we are playing on a decent surface again, then we will be back on track, although the damage may be done for this year. We should be prepared for if it happens again though. 

Theres a middle ground between going hell for leather and pressing for a 3rd, keeping two up top while telling your back 4 to keep it tight is both doable

Imo when we went 2-1 ahead id have subbed stewart for morelos, kept kent on to play left mid, put arfield right mid and played 442 with jack and hagi in the middle, and just tell the back 4 to sit back, not deep in our own box but keep in a line, no flying fullbacks leaving space at the back

Our two strikers pressure their backline and stops at johnstone launching long balls at us

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Just now, Blue Avenger said:

There needs to be a massive turaround. He wins fuck all, he's gone in the summer.

From his high perch, getting called out in the Glasgow goldfish bowl is not his style. I would suspect he would like to fuck off now' going by his body language at Perth and his pathetic presser.

Who would you suggest BA? 

I bet his wife is giving him it both barrels as his mood at home will be shite the whole time, affecting their harmony and she will be delighted if he was not manager of us.

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1 hour ago, berkshirebear said:

Maybe we could try innovating with 2 strikers! Might be revolutionary... 

Would only work if we went three at the back. We need to have 3 in the middle of the park or 2 playing behind a number ten because in Scotland  we would be outnumbered and probably over run in midfield in most games if we don’t match up man for man.

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58 minutes ago, Craiggybear said:

It's a cunt of a situation that's totally our own doing. Really hate the way we do business when it comes to backroom staff. 

Gerrard has a good run from July to December, so we give him (and his backroom staff) a 2 year extension on his already existing 4 year contract. 

TLB takes over from Brenda and sees them over the line for the treble, then gets them through to the last 32 of Uefa... He's on a 12 month ROLLING contract, so as soon as he fucks up they can ditch him. 

Why the fuck are we handing out extensions to a manager who still has 2 years on his contract? 

Tbf Lennon ain't getting a better job whereas Gerrard would have loads of offers out there!! 

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21 minutes ago, Blue Avenger said:

There needs to be a massive turaround. He wins fuck all, he's gone in the summer.

From his high perch, getting called out in the Glasgow goldfish bowl is not his style. I would suspect he would like to fuck off now' going by his body language at Perth and his pathetic presser.

I think u are correct. Looling at him he lools like he wishes it was all over just now. 

Team does not need cleared out tho. European and results against taigs show that. Needs experienced manager who can adapt to situation however. And a willingness to go physical and dirty.

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59 minutes ago, STEPPS BOY said:

I watched Chelsea against Man U and it’s like watching us.

Kante, Jorginho and Kovacevic in middle and 2 wide strikers who don’t score.

Chelsea’s goals recently from Rudiger, Alonso and Giroud chipped in.

The lack of threat from these areas is what is killing us IMO.

They cunts have Forrest, Christie and McGrgeor who all contribute a decent number of goals and assists (28 goals, 30 assists between them in the league) and we have Kent, Aribo and Jack ( 13 goals and 11 assists between them in the league)

We need to give our midfielders more freedom to play (Jack should be our deepest midfielder) and stop having them be so rigid and slow in possession.

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20 minutes ago, DBBTB said:

Would only work if we went three at the back. We need to have 3 in the middle of the park or 2 playing behind a number ten because in Scotland  we would be outnumbered and probably over run in midfield in most games if we don’t match up man for man.

3 at the back is something we should look at. We only ever really tried it once vs Motherwell away and it was scrapped. 

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3 hours ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

We were pretty free scoring before the winter break though. There was literally a goal or two difference between the 2 sides.

I honestly think that the biggest disadvantage that we have had is with the fucking weather. It has fucked all the pitches in a way Gerard has not encountered so far in his management career. He has to learn from it.

Before the break we were playing some incredibly nice football on the deck with close intricate passing. Working little triangles and creating space. celtic have been more direct and its worked for them. This is the one thing Gerard got wrong and Lennon got right.

Thought Braga played not too bad on our tattie field of a pitch. Don't remember Ibrox playing surface being anywhere as bad this time last year but we still returned after the break and put in the same turgid performances.

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