Gerrard on the brink

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,752]

3 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

Also, what was PLG's best achievement in his time here, how was he doing domestically, and how did the fans treat him

Said it before, if he was called Stephane Gerarde there would be a hell of a lot more people wanting him out no matter what euro achievement he had

PLG got us knocked out of the League Cup by a first division side at home, left us when we were 17 points behind celtic (in January never mind March) and fell out with his captain and a few other senior players on the way out.

They might have both led us to the knockout rounds of the Europa League but Gerrard doesn’t even come close to doing as bad domestically as PLG was when he was hounded.

[ForeverAndEver 71,365]

5 minutes ago, TMB said:

Also, European participation brings in a lot more than money.  It raises the clubs prestige.  The value of our player assets increases because they have performed on the European stage.  It's vital to the clubs long-term health that we participate regularly in Europe.  It's doesn't 'mean nothing' just because we wont win it.  

It does when we win fuck all else

[The Dude 20,026]

5 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

So ecks final season he was shit domestically while making it to the CL last 16, the fans wanted him out

Gerrard has arguably spent more than eck did, got the same achievements, yet fans want him to stay 

Looks like its other people are using the different criteria to decide if a boss stays

How do you arguably spend more money than someone? It's not a subjective measure.  Gerrard spent X, McLeish spent Y.

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,752]

8 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

So ecks final season he was shit domestically while making it to the CL last 16, the fans wanted him out

Gerrard has arguably spent more than eck did, got the same achievements, yet fans want him to stay 

Looks like its other people are using the different criteria to decide if a boss stays

 They aren’t using any different of a criteria than you are, it’s just the reverse opinion that they hold.

You can talk about Gerrard spending more but like I said before that needs to be qualified with how much more money there is in football now than there was in 2005. It would actually be interesting to compare our wage bill now to what it was then. I’m willing to bet that with the number of established top level players we still had on the books in 05-06 it would be far higher than what it is now.

[Ladytonbear 372]

16 minutes ago, TMB said:

We're 14 points short of last seasons points tally with eleven games left to play.  If we win just five of our remaining 11 games we will have improved on last seasons points tally.  In all likelihood we'll finish with 80+ points.  As I said in a previous post, celtic won the league with 82 points last year.

The points total doesn't tell the whole story - it could be easily argued that we have more points because other teams have got worse rather than us getting better. For me, a real measure of improvement will be when we win the league and if not how far behind the winner do  we finish.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,498]

4 minutes ago, DBBTB said:

 They aren’t using any different of a criteria than you are, it’s just the reverse opinion that they hold.

You can talk about Gerrard spending more but like I said before that needs to be qualified with how much more money there is in football now than there was in 2005. It would actually be interesting to compare our wage bill now to what it was then. I’m willing to bet that with the number of established top level players we still had on the books in 05-06 it would be far higher than what it is now.

My defence of eck was based on the fact he HAD won trophies with us, he deserved more leeway given what he had done for us the previous seasons, people wanted rid of eck because domestically he had been shite, fuck europe, people wanted rid of PLG because he hadn't learned scottish football, domestically we were shite, and fuck europe

Now with gerrard we are shite domestically, just as good in europe as two previous managers i stated, and now europe is used as a reason to justify domestic shiteness

Infact every manager we have wanted rid of is because of domestic shiteness, what gives gerrard a different set of targets 

[Gman36 3,455]

1 hour ago, TMB said:

No, he'd walk.  It's not like he needs the money.  Unlike McCoist, Gerrard wouldn't sit on gardening leave on full pay for a considerable period of time doing fuck all.

Besides, we can't sack him so it's a moot point.

In my opinion it's delusional to think Gerrard has fallen in love with Rangers to extent he'd forgo a considerable payoff if he was facing the sack or being put on gardening leave. 

Gerrard would almost certainly sit on full pay for as long as he was being paid handsomely by us. I would expect he'd do the same if he was ever Liverpool manager too. 

Also Jose Mourinho has long since needed the money and continually hung on for ever increasing pay offs. 

Managers don't resign from jobs due to poor performance, and haven't for some time now. 

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,752]

1 minute ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

My defence of eck was based on the fact he HAD won trophies with us, he deserved more leeway given what he had done for us the previous seasons, people wanted rid of eck because domestically he had been shite, fuck europe, people wanted rid of PLG because he hadn't learned scottish football, domestically we were shite, and fuck europe

Now with gerrard we are shite domestically, just as good in europe as two previous managers i stated, and now europe is used as a reason to justify domestic shiteness

Infact every manager we have wanted rid of is because of domestic shiteness, what gives gerrard a different set of targets 

It’ll sound like a cop out but I genuinely think people look at where we have been and see how far we have come and that’s what gives him that bit more leeway (it’s not an excuse that washes with me, not anymore).

I don’t disagree with a lot of people’s criticisms of Gerrard, most of them are justified, and i’m As desperate for us to be successful as everybody else on here is I just don’t think another root and branch clear out of the manager and all his staff is what we need just now after having two in the past three years.

Not winning anything this year is rightly putting him under pressure, especially when Gerrard said this was the season we had to challenge, but he’s in the last chance saloon for me now. Any more colossal fuck ups and I’ll be jumping to your side

 

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,752]

14 minutes ago, Gman36 said:

Managers don't resign from jobs due to poor performance, and haven't for some time now

It’s because they always know they are going to walk into another job. Getting sacked doesn’t have the same consequences that it’s used to.

You look at say the Premier League 15-20 years ago and a bad job and a sacking either finished you or made it very hard to get back in but there just seems to be this revolving carousel now where managers can just jump on and off whenever they feel like regardless of how poorly they have down in their most recent job.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,498]

5 minutes ago, DBBTB said:

It’ll sound like a cop out but I genuinely think people look at where we have been and see how far we have come and that’s what gives him that bit more leeway (it’s not an excuse that washes with me, not anymore).

I don’t disagree with a lot of people’s criticisms of Gerrard, most of them are justified, and i’m As desperate for us to be successful as everybody else on here is I just don’t think another root and branch clear out of the manager and all his staff is what we need just now after having two in the past three years.

Not winning anything this year is rightly putting him under pressure, especially when Gerrard said this was the season we had to challenge, but he’s in the last chance saloon for me now. Any more colossal fuck ups and I’ll be jumping to your side

 

Root and branch clear outs are never good as it can be a struggle to recover, however imo there must come a time, where a manager either cant or wont fix the issues within the team, that the manager is removed

The defeat to hearts reminded me of games where a manager has either gone (kenny at easter road), almost gone (hearts under warburton) or playing because they know a new manager is coming in and they might not be kept (pedros first OF game in dugout) 

Europe is great, watching the braga game last week was unreal, but imo unless we win it, they victories will not match trophies and i stand by what i said in that id rather we lost to braga but had won the league cup and had beaten hearts last weekend

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

54 minutes ago, Malkytfp1 said:

How many people standing up for him here are the same people who last year said "give him another chance but he has to win a trophy?".

Last year he failed to make changes or tinker when we couldn't break teams down. What's changed this year?

Good point mate and I was one of them. 

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,752]

Just now, Jimbeamjunior said:

Root and branch clear outs are never good as it can be a struggle to recover, however imo there must come a time, where a manager either cant or wont fix the issues within the team, that the manager is removed

The defeat to hearts reminded me of games where a manager has either gone (kenny at easter road), almost gone (hearts under warburton) or playing because they know a new manager is coming in and they might not be kept (pedros first OF game in dugout) 

Europe is great, watching the braga game last week was unreal, but imo unless we win it, they victories will not match trophies and i stand by what i said in that id rather we lost to braga but had won the league cup and had beaten hearts last weekend

You won’t find me disagreeing with any of that (for once  ) 👍🏻

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,498]

5 minutes ago, DBBTB said:

You won’t find me disagreeing with any of that (for once  ) 👍🏻

You feeling alright 😂😂😂

[ForeverAndEver 71,365]

6 minutes ago, DBBTB said:

You won’t find me disagreeing with any of that (for once  ) 👍🏻

Shat it imo

[BlueKnight87 17,280]

14 minutes ago, Courtyard Bear said:

Good point mate and I was one of them. 

I said the same start of the season. He had to deliver a trophy. 

He hasn't and that would be enough to get any other Rangers manager sacked.

Board however have no intention of doing this.

In the summer he better be ruthless and get rid of constant failures. If we start next season with the same core we will fail again. 

[Essandoh 21,193]

6 minutes ago, ForeverAndEver said:

Shat it imo

Never tire of you being the house wind up merchant

[Ivybank 4,573]

1 hour ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

Also, what was PLG's best achievement in his time here, how was he doing domestically, and how did the fans treat him

Said it before, if he was called Stephane Gerarde there would be a hell of a lot more people wanting him out no matter what euro achievement he had

Spot on , no one can argue with the PLG analogy , shit manager like gerrard

[Dave Hedgehog 10,673]

Gerrards record against Aberdeen, Kilmarnock, Hibs and Hearts shows exactly where our problem lies.

These are basic teams that should be taking a result against us now and again and that’s it.

We have played these 4 teams 34 times under Gerrard and only won 16. 10 draws and 8 losses to these lot. 

Dropped something more times than we have won. That’s shocking to be honest. 

Like I have said before I genuinely want the guy to succeed but to put that into perspective we have only lost 3 games out of 30 in Europe to far better sides.

Failure to adapt is a huge problem.

[Laudrupsleftfoot 10,778]

2 hours ago, McKissock said:

Whilst I agree with all of that, I think you can't put a tangible value on winning that trophy. 

I tend to look to 10/11 season when we very much looked like we were going to lose the league in Walter's final season, especially after the Scottish Cup/Replay double header against them. If we'd lost the League Cup final to them I think we would have lost the league, but winning it gave the players the belief to go on and seal it. 

I think Europe has been crucial for so many reasons, but winning our first trophy with this group of players is vital.

I think you're right about that. Psychologically, the likes of Tav but all of them essentially would have massively benefited from winning that league cup final. 

You obviously will never know, but I wouldn't be surprised if we'd have won that final we'd be sitting prettier in the league than we are right now.

With all that said, I think some supporters are putting too much emphasis on winning one of the cups. The European run has been far more important (financially, attracting players and attention to the club etc.), and impressive and in terms of the teams beaten, than if we'd have been turfed out by Legia but managed to win either the league cup or Scottish cup.

People keep on saying 'he had to win a trophy' as if winning the league cup or scottish cup but going out of Europe early, and consistently being given hammerings in the league by the scum, would be preferable to where we're currently at and for me that's complete nonsense.

[Laudrupsleftfoot 10,778]

6 minutes ago, Dave Hedgehog said:

Gerrards record against Aberdeen, Kilmarnock, Hibs and Hearts shows exactly where our problem lies.

These are basic teams that should be taking a result against us now and again and that’s it.

We have played these 4 teams 34 times under Gerrard and only won 16. 10 draws and 8 losses to these lot. 

Dropped something more times than we have won. That’s shocking to be honest. 

Like I have said before I genuinely want the guy to succeed but to put that into perspective we have only lost 3 games out of 30 in Europe to far better sides.

Failure to adapt is a huge problem.

I know it will obviously be better, but it would be interesting to know what the scum's record is against these teams over the same time period.

[Dave Hedgehog 10,673]

Just now, Laudrupsleftfoot said:

I know it will obviously be better, but what's the scum's record against these teams over the same time period?

Give me 5 minutes mate and I will look 👍

[Laudrupsleftfoot 10,778]

1 minute ago, Dave Hedgehog said:

Give me 5 minutes mate and I will look 👍

You quoted me before I changed it as I was expecting a smart arse (and rightly so) reply of "I don't give a fuck about celtic"!

[Dave Hedgehog 10,673]

Just now, Laudrupsleftfoot said:

You quoted me before I changed it as I was expecting a smart arse (and rightly so) reply of "I don't give a fuck about celtic"!

I had a look and I think it’s 27 wins 3 draws and 3 losses.

Thats a massive difference. 

These teams don’t give as much against them as us but there is no excuse for our poor record 👍

[Laudrupsleftfoot 10,778]

5 minutes ago, Dave Hedgehog said:

I had a look and I think it’s 27 wins 3 draws and 3 losses.

Thats a massive difference. 

These teams don’t give as much against them as us but there is no excuse for our poor record 👍

Massive difference, that's really poor when you compare the two.

[Dave Hedgehog 10,673]

1 minute ago, Laudrupsleftfoot said:

Massive difference, that's really poor when you compare the two.

Almost 2 full seasons and lessons aren’t being learned.

Will never win anything when you see that record if massive improvements aren’t on the horizon.