The league must be voided

[STEPPS BOY 73,805]

36 minutes ago, eskbankloyal said:

It wont. It’s all empty bluster from Hearts. They’ll probably flatten the prize money payments in order to effectively keep Hearts sweet. 

Which in turn sums this up.

If Hearts are relegated then they should get whatever money they’re due, not a sweetener to keep them from kicking up a fuss.

[The Dude 20,026]

3 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

The problem I have is that they are enforcing the rulebook on a situation the rulebook is not designed or equipped to handle.

They have looked at the situation, decided what course of action is going to save them the most money and cause them the least hassle and then fit the rules around it.

I just dont buy that the rulebook is saying what they claim it is. Yes I agree they can void the 38 game rule if you follow the rulebook. What I cannot see is how they can cancel the playoffs, which are clearly defined in the rulebook, and could be held in the period they are discussing running the Scottish Cup.

They are picking and choosing how to apply the rules, which makes a mockery of the rules. They should not be up for picking and choosing, they should either be deemed not suitable for the current situation, or followed to the letter.

Picking and choosing rules to help some and fuck over others is not right with me.

The Scottish Cup is organised by the SFA rather the SPFL.

Article 99 of the Articles of Association looks to be the one. (this is based on my quick read through rather than speaking to clubs etc)

https://spfl.co.uk/admin/filemanager/images/shares/pdfs/SPFL Articles of Association of 15-Apr-19 (CURRENT).pdf

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

Why 80% as the threshold to declare champions?

What if leagues wth under 50% games played are confident they can finish their season within the usual timescale? Why should their season be voided and the club denied the income? Hardly fair on them. League of Ireland has played five games so far and have only postponed games until April so far. If they feel they can get their season ended on time why shouldn't they?

An easier solution would be

1. Domestic leagues apply their existing rulebooks.

 

Like I say, i spent 5 minutes on it. Im sure the bigwigs at Uefa could come up with a solution and refine my rules somewhat.

The existing rulebooks are not fit for purpose for the situation we are in now. They were not designed for it. Why should we be following a rulebook in a situation never envisaged when the rules were created?

A robust and consistent approach would be the best way to handle things. For a start, it would end any suggestions of internal corruption, which are bound to happen, and quite frankly, appear to be valid.

[HuistraHairDo 12,489]

2 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I've accepted it because having spoken to an independent lawyer and a number of clubs, I don't see any way in which the standings wont be kept.

Spoke to a lawyer, that's it final then, was it Craig Whyte you spoke to?

[weejoseph 2,773]

Just now, The Dude said:

I've accepted it because having spoken to an independent lawyer and a number of clubs, I don't see any way in which the standings wont be kept.

You have championed it, don’t kid yourself on.

It’s the reason the majority have a problem with you on this thread. Every moral reason against finishing this way, regardless of it being right or wrong has been put to you to which you have argued against. 

You could quite easily assume you are enjoying this, you certainly come across that way in my opinion.

also you are a journalist. Why can you not use the power of the pen to challenge this if you believe in it? You do realise you don’t have to just “accept” it? You are in the perfect position to challenge it, what’s stopping you? 

 

 

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, HuistraHairDo said:

Spoke to a lawyer, that's it final then, was it Craig Whyte you spoke to?

Craig Whyte a lawyer?

[Brian Fantana 28,894]

10 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I've accepted it because having spoken to an independent lawyer and a number of clubs, I don't see any way in which the standings wont be kept.

 there's trying to prove a point and then there's this. 

[HuistraHairDo 12,489]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

Craig Whyte a lawyer?

Nope just a charlatan

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

@The Dude

Answer this one question.

Which of the following do you think would be the correct way to move forward:-

1. Adhering to the rules set up by the SPFL which were not set up with the advent of a global pandemic shutting down world football for a prolonged period.

2. Adhering to a set of rules set up by Uefa, directly designed with the Coronavirus in mind to apply consistency across Europe and all its member leagues.

So far you seem to be doggedly sticking with scenario 1, which seems nothing more than utterly ridiculous to me.

[writingranger 1,412]

The thing that sticks in my craw is the sheer hypocrisy of celtic football club. They talk of and hide behind notions of sporting integrity but they have none and so far have proved to be malicious and hegemonic. That hegemony is all they care about.

[HuistraHairDo 12,489]

13 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I've accepted it because having spoken to an independent lawyer and a number of clubs, I don't see any way in which the standings wont be kept.

That's like me saying I've spoke to @Blue Nosed Babe and she says otherwise (I haven't just making a point)

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, weejoseph said:

You have championed it, don’t kid yourself on.

It’s the reason the majority have a problem with you on this thread. Every moral reason against finishing this way, regardless of it being right or wrong has been put to you to which you have argued against. 

You could quite easily assume you are enjoying this, you certainly come across that way in my opinion.

also you are a journalist. Why can you not use the power of the pen to challenge this if you believe in it? You do realise you don’t have to just “accept” it? You are in the perfect position to challenge it, what’s stopping you? 

 

 

Because I see nothing in their rules that would trump the rules as they stand - and the rulebook is going to be what they use to make the decision, not anything about 'morals' or sporting integrity'.

The rules as theyve been explained to me by a couple of different sources allow the SPFL to call the Season early. I've had that opinion backed up by an independent lawyer I've known my whole live, trust implicitly, who has no dog in this fight and doesn't even reside in the UK.

Theres now another lawyer quoted in the media backing up that view.

I'm waiting to hear from clubs on any latest developments and advice they may have had - but as it stands the ones i've spoken to are of the view that the SPFL's rules allow them to do what I've been told they are going to do.

On the other side of the argument, theres...nobody willing to put their name to quotes insisting that the SPFL don't have the power to end it. The Premiership club set to be relegated are looking at whether they can challenge it but haven't committed to it and another who stand to lose out significantly have suggested that they arent sure if there's much they can do.

 

[weejoseph 2,773]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

Because I see nothing in their rules that would trump the rules as they stand - and the rulebook is going to be what they use to make the decision, not anything about 'morals' or sporting integrity'.

The rules as theyve been explained to me by a couple of different sources allow the SPFL to call the Season early. I've had that opinion backed up by an independent lawyer I've known my whole live, trust implicitly, who has no dog in this fight and doesn't even reside in the UK.

Theres now another lawyer quoted in the media backing up that view.

I'm waiting to hear from clubs on any latest developments and advice they may have had - but as it stands the ones i've spoken to are of the view that the SPFL's rules allow them to do what I've been told they are going to do.

On the other side of the argument, theres...nobody willing to put their name to quotes insisting that the SPFL don't have the power to end it. The Premiership club set to be relegated are looking at whether they can challenge it but haven't committed to it and another who stand to lose out significantly have suggested that they arent sure if there's much they can do.

 

Strange, it is almost like you have peddled the above myth as being some sort of fact for 48 pages when it turns out it is all just more opinions. 

if you have a look at your friends over at the daily record today you will find some of them have called for it to made null and void as it being the only valid solution. 

[The Dude 20,026]

 

4 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

@The Dude

Answer this one question.

Which of the following do you think would be the correct way to move forward:-

1. Adhering to the rules set up by the SPFL which were not set up with the advent of a global pandemic shutting down world football for a prolonged period.

2. Adhering to a set of rules set up by Uefa, directly designed with the Coronavirus in mind to apply consistency across Europe and all its member leagues.

So far you seem to be doggedly sticking with scenario 1, which seems nothing more than utterly ridiculous to me.

 

IF UEFA set up rules, that would be the one but as it stands they don't and I've no reason to believe that they will. There are too many variable across Europe for UEFA to implement a blanket decision and everything so far suggests that it will be left to domestic FAs.

I'm 'doggedly' sticking to one because that's the one that every bit of information I've heard tells me is the one that's going to happen. I've said repeatedly what I think should happen but this isnt about what I think should happen but what the SPFL are going ahead with.

 

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

2 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Because I see nothing in their rules that would trump the rules as they stand - and the rulebook is going to be what they use to make the decision, not anything about 'morals' or sporting integrity'.

The rules as theyve been explained to me by a couple of different sources allow the SPFL to call the Season early. I've had that opinion backed up by an independent lawyer I've known my whole live, trust implicitly, who has no dog in this fight and doesn't even reside in the UK.

Theres now another lawyer quoted in the media backing up that view.

I'm waiting to hear from clubs on any latest developments and advice they may have had - but as it stands the ones i've spoken to are of the view that the SPFL's rules allow them to do what I've been told they are going to do.

On the other side of the argument, theres...nobody willing to put their name to quotes insisting that the SPFL don't have the power to end it. The Premiership club set to be relegated are looking at whether they can challenge it but haven't committed to it and another who stand to lose out significantly have suggested that they arent sure if there's much they can do.

 

I dont see how they can just void the playoffs to be honest. They are clearly defined in the rulebook, and I dont think it would be unreasonable to hold them prior to the season starting. When we went down to the 3rd tier, Dundee were given incredibly short notice to adjust.

I think ti would be an absolute scandal to relegate Partick Thistle as if they win their game in hand, they would not occupy the relegation spot.

No doubt they will just ignore these discrepancies in the rules which dont work in the completely unexpected situation we find ourselves in, but will instead throw some cash at the problem to hush it up. If ever there was a damning indication of the situation we were in....

 

[The Dude 20,026]

Just now, weejoseph said:

Strange, it is almost like you have peddled the above myth as being some sort of fact for 48 pages when it turns out it is all just more opinions. 

if you have a look at your friends over at the daily record today you will find some of them have called for it to made null and void as it being the only valid solution. 

No it wasn't an opinion from a number of clubs that the SPFL intend to keep the standings as it. The external lawyer absolutely was an opinion and given her professional position and relationship I have with her, its an opinion I trust implicitly. Far more so than any poster on here's competency to read and interpret the rules correctly (including my own)

You are aware that despite my 'friends at the record' giving their opinion  that it should be null and void, the paper are still reporting that the SPFL have no plans to actually do that?

 

[The Dude 20,026]

3 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

I dont see how they can just void the playoffs to be honest. They are clearly defined in the rulebook, and I dont think it would be unreasonable to hold them prior to the season starting. When we went down to the 3rd tier, Dundee were given incredibly short notice to adjust.

I think ti would be an absolute scandal to relegate Partick Thistle as if they win their game in hand, they would not occupy the relegation spot.

No doubt they will just ignore these discrepancies in the rules which dont work in the completely unexpected situation we find ourselves in, but will instead throw some cash at the problem to hush it up. If ever there was a damning indication of the situation we were in....

 

Article 99 of their articles of association gives them the power by the looks of it.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

 

 

IF UEFA set up rules, that would be the one but as it stands they don't and I've no reason to believe that they will. There are too many variable across Europe for UEFA to implement a blanket decision and everything so far suggests that it will be left to domestic FAs.

I'm 'doggedly' sticking to one because that's the one that every bit of information I've heard tells me is the one that's going to happen. I've said repeatedly what I think should happen but this isnt about what I think should happen but what the SPFL are going ahead with.

 

What have you repeatedly said should happen?

I have backed you up on here, but unless you are meaning that you fully agree with the course of action from the SPFL then I genuinely have missed your personal stance.

For the last couple of days, it has not come across as you just purely saying what you think will happen, it has sounded very much like you are in favour of the approach that they are taking. This is not me having a go at you, but if you disagree with me, it is the reason you are  coming across such hostility on here. I would consider your writing style as it may not be conveying your actual meaning particularly well.

[The Dude 20,026]

10 minutes ago, HuistraHairDo said:

That's like me saying I've spoke to @Blue Nosed Babe and she says otherwise (I haven't just making a point)

And if her opinion was such that the rules were unenforceable then it would make for an interesting scenario (although without a way to compare the credibility against my 'source', Id be sticking with my guys view)

[eejay the dj 31,964]

Our club should be shouting at the rooftops over this .On the grounds of sporting integrity .No laughing at the back 

Well we all know it’s what the bheasts would be doing .Yet if it were other way round .The rule book would be in the bin

And every bear knows that 

[HuistraHairDo 12,489]

3 minutes ago, The Dude said:

 

 

IF UEFA set up rules, that would be the one but as it stands they don't and I've no reason to believe that they will. There are too many variable across Europe for UEFA to implement a blanket decision and everything so far suggests that it will be left to domestic FAs.

I'm 'doggedly' sticking to one because that's the one that every bit of information I've heard tells me is the one that's going to happen. I've said repeatedly what I think should happen but this isnt about what I think should happen but what the SPFL are going ahead with.

 

Spfl aren't going ahead with nothing

they are speaking to UEFA in a meeting tomorrow how the fuck do you know what's happening? 

UEFA could say anything tmora they could say what you are pedalling they could say something completely different

It's all guess work from you tbh

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

26 minutes ago, The Dude said:

The Scottish Cup is organised by the SFA rather the SPFL.

Article 99 of the Articles of Association looks to be the one. (this is based on my quick read through rather than speaking to clubs etc)

https://spfl.co.uk/admin/filemanager/images/shares/pdfs/SPFL Articles of Association of 15-Apr-19 (CURRENT).pdf

Which Article 100 seems to suggest they would need to hold a vote on to approve.

They may or may not win this vote, but I think they would at least hold it and not just plow on regardless.

[MoodyBlue1872 3,078]

Just now, eejay the dj said:

Our club should be shouting at the rooftops over this .On the grounds of sporting integrity .No laughing at the back 

Well we all know it’s what the bheasts would be doing .Yet if it were other way round .The rule book would be in the bin

And every bear knows that 

Our club, our board do not have balls to challenge anything. 

We are a leaderless mess. They are hopeless and cannot be relied upon. 

[weejoseph 2,773]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

No it wasn't an opinion from a number of clubs that the SPFL intend to keep the standings as it. The external lawyer absolutely was an opinion and given her professional position and relationship I have with her, its an opinion I trust implicitly. Far more so than any poster on here's competency to read and interpret the rules correctly (including my own)

You are aware that despite my 'friends at the record' giving their opinion  that it should be null and void, the paper are still reporting that the SPFL have no plans to actually do that?

 

It doesn’t just come down to rules James and fine you know that. It is as much a double edged sword as anything With regards to lawsuits as well as duties and if you can’t admit that due to your stubbornness and desperation to be right, In this case for some bizarre reason I will never understand whilst claiming to be a Rangers fan, then more fool you if you think i’d ever take your word as serious and I’d hope everyone on here is the same and sees right through it for what you really are.

I am well aware that this is the case with regards to your friends. It is strange though that they are quite willing to put their name on record as you put it earlier for supporting null and void whilst you aren’t. Sorry but I find that bizarre!? 

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

What have you repeatedly said should happen?

I have backed you up on here, but unless you are meaning that you fully agree with the course of action from the SPFL then I genuinely have missed your personal stance.

For the last couple of days, it has not come across as you just purely saying what you think will happen, it has sounded very much like you are in favour of the approach that they are taking. This is not me having a go at you, but if you disagree with me, it is the reason you are  coming across such hostility on here. I would consider your writing style as it may not be conveying your actual meaning particularly well.

My personal stance is that freezing the standings are the best of a bad bunch of options. if that means they get the title, so be it.

There will be challenges whatever happens and going with the standings at 80% will bring fewer hurdles than simply scrapping and starting over. Particularly further down the leagues.