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D'Artagnan

What is that strange red hand ?

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Reasonable question - no answer (yet) - What has it got to do with football? - IMO - NOTHING.

What has the Union Jack or the Saltire got to do with football?

Both are flown regularly at Ibrox

Do you seriously suggest we only celebrate football related topics as a support?

That's ridiculous

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“Well the Germans in their trenches they could scarce believe their eyes

When up and charged those Ulster men and they heard their battle cry

Carry it like a flame in your heart”

Whoopee - and what the hell has this got to do with Football and Rangers (apart from the fact that some still try to tie the club in to all that protestant baggage we carry and some wave it at Rangers games)

Here we go... there's always one.

Reasonable question - no answer (yet) - What has it got to do with football? - IMO - NOTHING.

Similair to Jimenez's post; what has beer, tv, cheeerleaders got to do with football?

Football is a major part of a community and everything that's involved in a group of people. That incorporates history of the club for a large base of our fans and how it links most or all Rangers fans to the one cause. Look at the first posts in this thread and you'll see how people are linked to it... :rolleyes:

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“Well the Germans in their trenches they could scarce believe their eyes

When up and charged those Ulster men and they heard their battle cry

For what kind of men are these they said who would leave their native land

For to die upon a battle field and what is that strange red handâ€

This verse is taken from the song “Englishman’s Betrayal†which depicts the outstanding bravery of the 36th Ulster Division on the first day of the Battle of the Somme. The Ulstermen were the only Division in the British Army to achieve their objectives that day, but at heavy cost.

Small wonder then that the Germans gazed in awe at these courageous fighters and asked “what is that strange red handâ€

The symbol of the Red Hand has long been associated with Ulster, and clans actually argued over ownership. The origins of the symbol are still unclear.

Cast an eye around our support, and the symbol of the red hand is extremely common, and so it should be, considering that outside Glasgow Belfast is the biggest Rangers supporting city in Britain. And of course the flying of the Red Hand has drawn criticism of our support, so much so that at times our club has acquiesced to such criticism, with red hand flags being airbrushed out of pictures in Rangers publications.

Despite no longer carrying official status since the abolition of the Northern Ireland Govt in 1973, it remains a potent symbol of Ulster to all who gaze upon it.

Unlike those who frown upon at it’s unfurling amongst our support, I rejoice when I see it flying. It is a potent symbol of victory over tyranny, of the ballot box over the bomb, and of the resilience and bravery of a people to refuse to submit to terror, threats and intimidation.

It symbolism and significance are far too important to be reduced to being a mechanism to wind up our rivals, or allow others to suggest it is merely an extension of sectarianism. And let no one fool you otherwise, particularly our clubs detractors.

To see the red hand flag flying at Ibrox is a victory for freedom, and whether you be Scot, Ulster Scot or Ulsterman we should remember the trials, tribulations and suffering which many have endured to ensure its preservation.

There are many who would lambast the Ulsterman for the stubbornness of his ways, his refusal to compromise, his inward resolve. You will find that most of these critics were not at the Battle of the Somme, nor have they faced a life under threat or intimidation of the terrorist. I doubt any have been prepared to lay down their lives for the cause of freedom.

Let us never apologise for symbols which epitomise all that is good about our people.

“So feel the winds of change through the land

Feel the spirit of the red hand

And in this cold dark night

Keep it shining bright

Carry it like a flame in your heartâ€

Whoopee - and what the hell has this got to do with Football and Rangers (apart from the fact that some still try to tie the club in to all that protestant baggage we carry and some wave it at Rangers games)

i knew you would appear you are the type that would sell our support down the river, away and see murray and let him rub your belly and tell you that your a good boy.

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away and see murray and let him rub your belly and tell you that your a good boy.

:lol:

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Actually - I have a real softspot for Ulster - my wife is from there and a good protestant woman she is to, and we are both season ticket holders and I was 7 years in the Army - 3 spent in N. Ireland ona permantant posting and STILL I dont see what this post has to do with football.

It has a lot to do with trying to tie our club to a cause whose time has been and gone. It doesn't matter what they do elsewhere - I care for Rangers FC and (IMO) its time to move on. I agree with Murray on this - and you can like that or not! It The HISTORY of Rangers that I want to be associated with is the FOOTBALL Glories not the incedental baggage of one sections politics.

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“Well the Germans in their trenches they could scarce believe their eyes

When up and charged those Ulster men and they heard their battle cry

Carry it like a flame in your heartâ€

Whoopee - and what the hell has this got to do with Football and Rangers (apart from the fact that some still try to tie the club in to all that protestant baggage we carry and some wave it at Rangers games)

Here we go... there's always one.

Reasonable question - no answer (yet) - What has it got to do with football? - IMO - NOTHING.

You'll Never Walk Alone

I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles

Ring of Fire

The Halls of Montezuma.

What have they to do with football?

Had you read the initial post you would have seen that after Glasgow, Belfast is the home of the largest concentration of bears.

By the way why did you introduce religion to the thread?

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Actually - I have a real softspot for Ulster - my wife is from there and a good protestant woman she is to, and we are both season ticket holders and I was 7 years in the Army - 3 spent in N. Ireland ona permantant posting and STILL I dont see what this post has to do with football.

It has a lot to do with trying to tie our club to a cause whose time has been and gone. It doesn't matter what they do elsewhere - I care for Rangers FC and (IMO) its time to move on. I agree with Murray on this - and you can like that or not! It The HISTORY of Rangers that I want to be associated with is the FOOTBALL Glories not the incedental baggage of one sections politics.

So what exactly is wrong with the RHOU? What is it 'trying to tie our club' into? Something shameful?

And if you read the thread carefully I think you'll see that other than it being an emblem of Ulster, where we have a huge fan base, nobody is saying it has anything to do with football, so why don't you put that straw man down?

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Actually - I have a real softspot for Ulster - my wife is from there and a good protestant woman she is to, and we are both season ticket holders and I was 7 years in the Army - 3 spent in N. Ireland ona permantant posting and STILL I dont see what this post has to do with football.

It has a lot to do with trying to tie our club to a cause whose time has been and gone. It doesn't matter what they do elsewhere - I care for Rangers FC and (IMO) its time to move on. I agree with Murray on this - and you can like that or not! It The HISTORY of Rangers that I want to be associated with is the FOOTBALL Glories not the incedental baggage of one sections politics.

So what exactly is wrong with the RHOU? What is it 'trying to tie our club' into? Something shameful?

And if you read the thread carefully I think you'll see that other than it being an emblem of Ulster, where we have a huge fan base, nobody is saying it has anything to do with football, so why don't you put that straw man down?

I read the initial post and thought - what has this to do with Football and why is it being posted here? - still a valid question. I have drawn my own conclusions in the absense of any structured reply - I have NOT decryed anyone for flying the RHOU flag, nor would I want it removed . I still think the subject matter has NOTHING to do with football NOR Rangers but has everything to do with trying to keep certain political agendas tied to the club.

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“Well the Germans in their trenches they could scarce believe their eyes

When up and charged those Ulster men and they heard their battle cry

For what kind of men are these they said who would leave their native land

For to die upon a battle field and what is that strange red handâ€

This verse is taken from the song “Englishman’s Betrayal†which depicts the outstanding bravery of the 36th Ulster Division on the first day of the Battle of the Somme. The Ulstermen were the only Division in the British Army to achieve their objectives that day, but at heavy cost.

Small wonder then that the Germans gazed in awe at these courageous fighters and asked “what is that strange red handâ€

The symbol of the Red Hand has long been associated with Ulster, and clans actually argued over ownership. The origins of the symbol are still unclear.

Cast an eye around our support, and the symbol of the red hand is extremely common, and so it should be, considering that outside Glasgow Belfast is the biggest Rangers supporting city in Britain. And of course the flying of the Red Hand has drawn criticism of our support, so much so that at times our club has acquiesced to such criticism, with red hand flags being airbrushed out of pictures in Rangers publications.

Despite no longer carrying official status since the abolition of the Northern Ireland Govt in 1973, it remains a potent symbol of Ulster to all who gaze upon it.

Unlike those who frown upon at it’s unfurling amongst our support, I rejoice when I see it flying. It is a potent symbol of victory over tyranny, of the ballot box over the bomb, and of the resilience and bravery of a people to refuse to submit to terror, threats and intimidation.

It symbolism and significance are far too important to be reduced to being a mechanism to wind up our rivals, or allow others to suggest it is merely an extension of sectarianism. And let no one fool you otherwise, particularly our clubs detractors.

To see the red hand flag flying at Ibrox is a victory for freedom, and whether you be Scot, Ulster Scot or Ulsterman we should remember the trials, tribulations and suffering which many have endured to ensure its preservation.

There are many who would lambast the Ulsterman for the stubbornness of his ways, his refusal to compromise, his inward resolve. You will find that most of these critics were not at the Battle of the Somme, nor have they faced a life under threat or intimidation of the terrorist. I doubt any have been prepared to lay down their lives for the cause of freedom.

Let us never apologise for symbols which epitomise all that is good about our people.

“So feel the winds of change through the land

Feel the spirit of the red hand

And in this cold dark night

Keep it shining bright

Carry it like a flame in your heartâ€

Whoopee - and what the hell has this got to do with Football and Rangers (apart from the fact that some still try to tie the club in to all that protestant baggage we carry and some wave it at Rangers games)

There's always one :crabflute:

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Actually - I have a real softspot for Ulster - my wife is from there and a good protestant woman she is to, and we are both season ticket holders and I was 7 years in the Army - 3 spent in N. Ireland ona permantant posting and STILL I dont see what this post has to do with football.

It has a lot to do with trying to tie our club to a cause whose time has been and gone. It doesn't matter what they do elsewhere - I care for Rangers FC and (IMO) its time to move on. I agree with Murray on this - and you can like that or not! It The HISTORY of Rangers that I want to be associated with is the FOOTBALL Glories not the incedental baggage of one sections politics.

So what exactly is wrong with the RHOU? What is it 'trying to tie our club' into? Something shameful?

And if you read the thread carefully I think you'll see that other than it being an emblem of Ulster, where we have a huge fan base, nobody is saying it has anything to do with football, so why don't you put that straw man down?

I read the initial post and thought - what has this to do with Football and why is it being posted here? - still a valid question. I have drawn my own conclusions in the absense of any structured reply - I have NOT decryed anyone for flying the RHOU flag, nor would I want it removed . I still think the subject matter has NOTHING to do with football NOR Rangers but has everything to do with trying to keep certain political agendas tied to the club.

Has somebody claimed that it has something to do with football?

You just keep asserting that it hasn't, and so far as I can see nobody is disputing that, so it's a bit daft to whinge about the lack of answers.

It is a fundamentally flawed question.

As for why is it being posted here, I find it hard to believe that you read the initial post and can ask such a stupid question.

Rather than setting up straw men why not make your case.

If you feel that it shouldn't be seen at Ibrox say why.

But please, don't just say it has nothing to do with football, that's plain dumb doh

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Actually - I have a real softspot for Ulster - my wife is from there and a good protestant woman she is to, and we are both season ticket holders and I was 7 years in the Army - 3 spent in N. Ireland ona permantant posting and STILL I dont see what this post has to do with football.

It has a lot to do with trying to tie our club to a cause whose time has been and gone. It doesn't matter what they do elsewhere - I care for Rangers FC and (IMO) its time to move on. I agree with Murray on this - and you can like that or not! It The HISTORY of Rangers that I want to be associated with is the FOOTBALL Glories not the incedental baggage of one sections politics.

So what exactly is wrong with the RHOU? What is it 'trying to tie our club' into? Something shameful?

And if you read the thread carefully I think you'll see that other than it being an emblem of Ulster, where we have a huge fan base, nobody is saying it has anything to do with football, so why don't you put that straw man down?

I read the initial post and thought - what has this to do with Football and why is it being posted here? - still a valid question. I have drawn my own conclusions in the absense of any structured reply - I have NOT decryed anyone for flying the RHOU flag, nor would I want it removed . I still think the subject matter has NOTHING to do with football NOR Rangers but has everything to do with trying to keep certain political agendas tied to the club.

Has somebody claimed that it has something to do with football?

You just keep asserting that it hasn't, and so far as I can see nobody is disputing that, so it's a bit daft to whinge about the lack of answers.

It is a fundamentally flawed question.

As for why is it being posted here, I find it hard to believe that you read the initial post and can ask such a stupid question.

Rather than setting up straw men why not make your case.

If you feel that it shouldn't be seen at Ibrox say why.

But please, don't just say it has nothing to do with football, that's plain dumb doh

Well slap my head doh - I had associated this forum with Football, Rangers in Particular and thus we discussed FOOTBALL topics - I dont see this as a football topic therefore I posed the question "What has this got to do with FOOTBALL?" seems the answer is NOTHING. Did you see Lewis last night? - great program but the question is as relevant as the initial post.

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Actually - I have a real softspot for Ulster - my wife is from there and a good protestant woman she is to, and we are both season ticket holders and I was 7 years in the Army - 3 spent in N. Ireland ona permantant posting and STILL I dont see what this post has to do with football.

It has a lot to do with trying to tie our club to a cause whose time has been and gone. It doesn't matter what they do elsewhere - I care for Rangers FC and (IMO) its time to move on. I agree with Murray on this - and you can like that or not! It The HISTORY of Rangers that I want to be associated with is the FOOTBALL Glories not the incedental baggage of one sections politics.

So what exactly is wrong with the RHOU? What is it 'trying to tie our club' into? Something shameful?

And if you read the thread carefully I think you'll see that other than it being an emblem of Ulster, where we have a huge fan base, nobody is saying it has anything to do with football, so why don't you put that straw man down?

I read the initial post and thought - what has this to do with Football and why is it being posted here? - still a valid question. I have drawn my own conclusions in the absense of any structured reply - I have NOT decryed anyone for flying the RHOU flag, nor would I want it removed . I still think the subject matter has NOTHING to do with football NOR Rangers but has everything to do with trying to keep certain political agendas tied to the club.

Has somebody claimed that it has something to do with football?

You just keep asserting that it hasn't, and so far as I can see nobody is disputing that, so it's a bit daft to whinge about the lack of answers.

It is a fundamentally flawed question.

As for why is it being posted here, I find it hard to believe that you read the initial post and can ask such a stupid question.

Rather than setting up straw men why not make your case.

If you feel that it shouldn't be seen at Ibrox say why.

But please, don't just say it has nothing to do with football, that's plain dumb doh

Well slap my head doh - I had associated this forum with Football, Rangers in Particular and thus we discussed FOOTBALL topics - I dont see this as a football topic therefore I posed the question "What has this got to do with FOOTBALL?" seems the answer is NOTHING. Did you see Lewis last night? - great program but the question is as relevant as the initial post.

Professional football is more than just a 90 minute game on the park. Its about traditions, rivalry, money, communities, people, enjoyment, passion, pride, togetherness, discussion, educating, competing to name but a few.

The media, television, forums, newspapers, advertising etc are all vehicles that promote the game of football and all that goes with it.

When you go into work do you ever discuss football?? If so ask then yourself - What has football got to do with your work?? You see where im going hopefully.

If you look at it like that you can surely then start to see the faults in your original views.

To suggest that any people anywhere across the world simply leave everything else but football at the turnstyle is just daft. The reality is that as mentioned a lot of our support emanates from N. ireland and with it proudly comes the shared and treasured beliefs / heritage and emblems etc that have much more relevance to the club than you are comfortable with.

Maybe you should start going to amatuer football, it'll be a lot more diluted for you.

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Great to see you back D'art. Hope you and yours are all well.

Once again a great post which nicely illustrates that No Surrender attitude which the British people have long been associated with. We as a support should be proud of the fact that Rangers was founded by Ulster-Scots and that the Union of the bond between both nations is still as strong as ever.

No matter where you reside, what colour, creed or religion if you belong to Rangers then you are part of the family. Lets celebrate every aspect of the Rangers culture and not allow certain figures to edit that culture to suit their own personal agenda.

We Are The People. :rangers:

"So gather round my comrades on this first of July morn........."

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while i share bluepeter's opinion on the baggage, surely there's a difference between that and fans from one place flying their flag? man u is heaving with tricolours, but as far as i know that's coz they have a big fanbase there, i don't know of any political associations.

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Well slap my head doh - I had associated this forum with Football, Rangers in Particular and thus we discussed FOOTBALL topics - I dont see this as a football topic therefore I posed the question "What has this got to do with FOOTBALL?" seems the answer is NOTHING. Did you see Lewis last night? - great program but the question is as relevant as the initial post.

Things that happen at football matches are not to do with football then?

Discussions about Rangers Fans' culture have no place here?

As I said if you have a point please make it, this sniping is just boring.

And I have no idea who or what 'Lewis' is.

Give your head a good slap, if there's some point in there it might make it come out.

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Lewis is spin off from Morse that was on last night (tu) I meant to watch it.

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Lewis is spin off from Morse that was on last night (tu) I meant to watch it.

Thanks Boab.

What is your view on discussing it on a Rangers/ Football Forum?

More or less relevant than discussing Rangers Fans' culture?

More or less relevant than discussing Flags flown and songs sung by Rangers fans?

We seem to have a Rangers fan who thinks such things are comparable.

There is a debate to be had, but the one who is making the daft suggestions refuses to engage.

Go figure....

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I cant see bluepeters problem. As one who was dragged up on an Inverness council estate, the RHOU has nowt to do with me personally, but i love to see it fly as i've associated it with our magnificent support since i first saw it as a young child in the early 70s.

Its as if you've got an axe to grind though, so you grind away......

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Lewis is spin off from Morse that was on last night (tu) I meant to watch it.

Thanks Boab.

What is your view on discussing it on a Rangers/ Football Forum?

More or less relevant than discussing Rangers Fans' culture?

More or less relevant than discussing Flags flown and songs sung by Rangers fans?

We seem to have a Rangers fan who thinks such things are comparable.

There is a debate to be had, but the one who is making the daft suggestions refuses to engage.

Go figure....

Not saying whether I agree or disagree - but one thing for sure is that until the lad started posting the opposite view, there was no debate to be had - just a bunch of back slapping

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You asking me Manti or just an open almost rhetorical question?

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Lewis is spin off from Morse that was on last night (tu) I meant to watch it.

Thanks Boab.

What is your view on discussing it on a Rangers/ Football Forum?

More or less relevant than discussing Rangers Fans' culture?

More or less relevant than discussing Flags flown and songs sung by Rangers fans?

We seem to have a Rangers fan who thinks such things are comparable.

There is a debate to be had, but the one who is making the daft suggestions refuses to engage.

Go figure....

Not saying whether I agree or disagree - but one thing for sure is that until the lad started posting the opposite view, there was no debate to be had - just a bunch of back slapping

So people agreeing with each other is a problem now bauba ?

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I cant see bluepeters problem. As one who was dragged up on an Inverness council estate, the RHOU has nowt to do with me personally, but i love to see it fly as i've associated it with our magnificent support since i first saw it as a young child in the early 70s.

Its as if you've got an axe to grind though, so you grind away......

Fair point.

The RHOU might be seen as representing our support.

It might be seen as representing our Cousins in that Wee Spot in Europe whose 'No Surrender' attitude to ethnic cleansing we admire.

It might be because we are of the same ethnic/ religious group.

It might be that so many of our fans come from Ulster.

Whatever, what is the problem with it?

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I cant see bluepeters problem. As one who was dragged up on an Inverness council estate, the RHOU has nowt to do with me personally, but i love to see it fly as i've associated it with our magnificent support since i first saw it as a young child in the early 70s.

Its as if you've got an axe to grind though, so you grind away......

Coming from the very same estate, I mirror those views. Then, through membership of the Orange and ABOD, I came to feel more connected to the RHOU, the Scottish Saltire and the Union Flag, together. I really can't see why any Rangers fan, young or old, would like to see us disassociate ourselves from the RHOU. Certainly not a memory of the generation of our support that I grew up with.

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