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D'Artagnan

What is that strange red hand ?

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You asking me Manti or just an open almost rhetorical question?

Treat it as rhetorical Boab.

Unless you disagree....

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So people agreeing with each other is a problem now bauba ?

Aye a 'Rangers fan' doesn't like bears agreeing with each other.

A bit obvious that one :rolleyes:

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Lewis is spin off from Morse that was on last night (tu) I meant to watch it.

Thanks Boab.

What is your view on discussing it on a Rangers/ Football Forum?

More or less relevant than discussing Rangers Fans' culture?

More or less relevant than discussing Flags flown and songs sung by Rangers fans?

We seem to have a Rangers fan who thinks such things are comparable.

There is a debate to be had, but the one who is making the daft suggestions refuses to engage.

Go figure....

Not saying whether I agree or disagree - but one thing for sure is that until the lad started posting the opposite view, there was no debate to be had - just a bunch of back slapping

So people agreeing with each other is a problem now bauba ?

When did I say that?

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you have to admit, the ulster association is not entirely free of negative associations. so you can't be totally surprised that some fans would rather see nothing overt. as i say, a bit of coloured cloth doesn't worry me either way, so i'm a bit neutral. but generally, when people take a flag as being representative of an entire country, or group of people, i reach for the salt. so i can't accept that this flag or that flag can be used as a symbol for one thing to all people - there are bound to be others for whom it represents something different entirely. witht that in mind we can't expect rangers to be one thing to all fans either, so WVB can have his identity and BP can have his. no need to worry about someone else's view, though. just as BPs objections don't lessen the link some feel to ulster etc, their link to ulster needen't impinge on BPs day at the game.

a bit off topic i know, thinking aloud

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:lol:

Holy shit!

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Lewis is spin off from Morse that was on last night (tu) I meant to watch it.

Thanks Boab.

What is your view on discussing it on a Rangers/ Football Forum?

More or less relevant than discussing Rangers Fans' culture?

More or less relevant than discussing Flags flown and songs sung by Rangers fans?

We seem to have a Rangers fan who thinks such things are comparable.

There is a debate to be had, but the one who is making the daft suggestions refuses to engage.

Go figure....

Not saying whether I agree or disagree - but one thing for sure is that until the lad started posting the opposite view, there was no debate to be had - just a bunch of back slapping

So people agreeing with each other is a problem now bauba ?

When did I say that?

*yawn*

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you have to admit, the ulster association is not entirely free of negative associations. so you can't be totally surprised that some fans would rather see nothing overt. as i say, a bit of coloured cloth doesn't worry me either way, so i'm a bit neutral. but generally, when people take a flag as being representative of an entire country, or group of people, i reach for the salt. so i can't accept that this flag or that flag can be used as a symbol for one thing to all people - there are bound to be others for whom it represents something different entirely. witht that in mind we can't expect rangers to be one thing to all fans either, so WVB can have his identity and BP can have his. no need to worry about someone else's view, though. just as BPs objections don't lessen the link some feel to ulster etc, their link to ulster needen't impinge on BPs day at the game.

a bit off topic i know, thinking aloud

More of a 'stream of conscienceness' Andy, but fair comment.

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You asking me Manti or just an open almost rhetorical question?

Treat it as rhetorical Boab.

Unless you disagree....

...(tu)

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Thanks Boab.

What is your view on discussing it on a Rangers/ Football Forum?

More or less relevant than discussing Rangers Fans' culture?

More or less relevant than discussing Flags flown and songs sung by Rangers fans?

We seem to have a Rangers fan who thinks such things are comparable.

There is a debate to be had, but the one who is making the daft suggestions refuses to engage.

Go figure....

Not saying whether I agree or disagree - but one thing for sure is that until the lad started posting the opposite view, there was no debate to be had - just a bunch of back slapping

So people agreeing with each other is a problem now bauba ?

When did I say that?

*yawn*

No problem with folk agreeing mate - just that oen poster had said that there was a debate to be had when in reality, until BP came on, there was no debate at all really

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*yawn*

Nice one MAMWPJ, he'll divert you all night if you let him....

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No problem with folk agreeing mate - just that oen poster had said that there was a debate to be had when in reality, until BP came on, there was no debate at all really

Fair enough.

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More of a 'stream of conscienceness' Andy, but fair comment

is that a typo or a sly dig, you fox?

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More of a 'stream of conscienceness' Andy, but fair comment

is that a typo or a sly dig, you fox?

fly-casting-lrg.jpg

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you have to admit, the ulster association is not entirely free of negative associations. so you can't be totally surprised that some fans would rather see nothing overt. as i say, a bit of coloured cloth doesn't worry me either way, so i'm a bit neutral. but generally, when people take a flag as being representative of an entire country, or group of people, i reach for the salt. so i can't accept that this flag or that flag can be used as a symbol for one thing to all people - there are bound to be others for whom it represents something different entirely. witht that in mind we can't expect rangers to be one thing to all fans either, so WVB can have his identity and BP can have his. no need to worry about someone else's view, though. just as BPs objections don't lessen the link some feel to ulster etc, their link to ulster needen't impinge on BPs day at the game.

a bit off topic i know, thinking aloud

Good post. In the end, the whole Ulster thing means nothing to me personally as I grew up over twenty years ago in Edinburgh, a world away from the troubles and years from WWI. I understand the connection, but I feel a little uneasy with some of the negative connotations of the flag, but moreso, the straight arm salute. Considering a very similar slaute was used by one of the most evil and dispicable regimes in history, it's non-sensical why any fan would make something similar given how a 'Red Hand Salute' could be misinterpreted.

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Perhaps red gloves are the answer if we are to persist with the salute

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Outstanding post D'Art, great to see you back. Hope you are ok.

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As I have stated many times on this topic and others - To me Rangers are a FOOTBALL club. The traditions and histoy I want to be associated with are the football ones. The rest is just baggage.

I hate the Nazi style salute - I dont care if its NOT - it looks like it and the inferrence is there.

I have no problems with Red Blue and White flags - they are the teams colours and its easy to buy union jacks or saltires - or for that fact Ulter flags. All very colourful and when used in support of the team looks great and we do have a large Ulster support. NP.

My small issue is that the initial post then tries (IMHO) to tie waving the flag with a cause, other than Rangers FC - that my reading of the post.

I dont want rangers to be associated with any political, religious or other cause other than great football, sportsmanship and be all inclusive.

If Rangers (god forbid (your god) ) changed their colours to pink with green spots and lilac shorts and socks - I would be buying the appropriate scarf/flag to wave in support of my football team. It is the football history and traditions I want to be associated with - nothing more - but nothing less!

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As I have stated many times on this topic and others - To me Rangers are a FOOTBALL club. The traditions and histoy I want to be associated with are the football ones. The rest is just baggage.

I hate the Nazi style salute - I dont care if its NOT - it looks like it and the inferrence is there.

I have no problems with Red Blue and White flags - they are the teams colours and its easy to buy union jacks or saltires - or for that fact Ulter flags. All very colourful and when used in support of the team looks great and we do have a large Ulster support. NP.

My small issue is that the initial post then tries (IMHO) to tie waving the flag with a cause, other than Rangers FC - that my reading of the post.

I dont want rangers to be associated with any political, religious or other cause other than great football, sportsmanship and be all inclusive.

If Rangers (god forbid (your god) ) changed their colours to pink with green spots and lilac shorts and socks - I would be buying the appropriate scarf/flag to wave in support of my football team. It is the football history and traditions I want to be associated with - nothing more - but nothing less!

That is absolutely fine mate. I have said before that Rangers mean different things to every fan, you obviously see Rangers as your Football team only and there is nothing wrong with that.

As long as we can all accept that some people see Rangers as both a sporting AND cultural institution, others see Rangers as a representation of British values and history and others still see us as just a football club then we will all get along. There should be no dicision among our support, fans can fly any flag that they want as long as it is not offensive.

The fact that we are all there to give our support to The Rangers is good enough for me. :rangers:

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As I have stated many times on this topic and others - To me Rangers are a FOOTBALL club. The traditions and histoy I want to be associated with are the football ones. The rest is just baggage.

I hate the Nazi style salute - I dont care if its NOT - it looks like it and the inferrence is there.

I have no problems with Red Blue and White flags - they are the teams colours and its easy to buy union jacks or saltires - or for that fact Ulter flags. All very colourful and when used in support of the team looks great and we do have a large Ulster support. NP.

My small issue is that the initial post then tries (IMHO) to tie waving the flag with a cause, other than Rangers FC - that my reading of the post.

I dont want rangers to be associated with any political, religious or other cause other than great football, sportsmanship and be all inclusive.

If Rangers (god forbid (your god) ) changed their colours to pink with green spots and lilac shorts and socks - I would be buying the appropriate scarf/flag to wave in support of my football team. It is the football history and traditions I want to be associated with - nothing more - but nothing less!

It is a tricky one BP - yes, I agree with most of what you say - but on the other hand, if someone wants to wave a red hand flag - who am I to tell them not to. Actually, I don't have a problem with that at all - I can see how some would want to do that - although IMO there are those who do it as a gtf at our rivals. Still, its fine with me nonetheless. I DO have a problem with anything that gives the club a bad name and the salute itself IMO resembles the other salute just too closely for my liking - and when our fans choose to do that salute in Israel of all places, that just goes too far.

But all in all, I dont mind flags like the red hand or Union Jacks - I would prefer other flags but I dont have a problem with them

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As I have stated many times on this topic and others - To me Rangers are a FOOTBALL club. The traditions and histoy I want to be associated with are the football ones. The rest is just baggage.

I hate the Nazi style salute - I dont care if its NOT - it looks like it and the inferrence is there.

I have no problems with Red Blue and White flags - they are the teams colours and its easy to buy union jacks or saltires - or for that fact Ulter flags. All very colourful and when used in support of the team looks great and we do have a large Ulster support. NP.

My small issue is that the initial post then tries (IMHO) to tie waving the flag with a cause, other than Rangers FC - that my reading of the post.

I dont want rangers to be associated with any political, religious or other cause other than great football, sportsmanship and be all inclusive.

If Rangers (god forbid (your god) ) changed their colours to pink with green spots and lilac shorts and socks - I would be buying the appropriate scarf/flag to wave in support of my football team. It is the football history and traditions I want to be associated with - nothing more - but nothing less!

That is absolutely fine mate. I have said before that Rangers mean different things to every fan, you obviously see Rangers as your Football team only and there is nothing wrong with that.

As long as we can all accept that some people see Rangers as both a sporting AND cultural institution, others see Rangers as a representation of British values and history and others still see us as just a football club then we will all get along. There should be no dicision among our support, fans can fly any flag that they want as long as it is not offensive.

The fact that we are all there to give our support to The Rangers is good enough for me. :rangers:

I dont think anyone has problems with fans believing we are both - unless their actions in support of those beliefs goes too far and hurts the club

Then we have a debate and due to the nature of the beast, a heated one

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Doing the red hand salute in Israel of all places was a bad move. Whoever thought it a good idea is a moron and did not have Rangers interests at heart when they did that. However as someone with Ulster Protestant roots I have no problem with the red hand flag and am proud our club is associated with it.

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I'll be honest i wasnt even aware that some fans use this salute until it was cast in the misinterpreted light in Israel. I am however intelligent enough to now see the potential for causing offence to those who may take another meaning from it. With this in mind i feel it would be foolish and irresponsible to continue using it.

The flags issue though is much more straight forward. Anything unless overtly offensive is fine. People have to understand that its ok to go to a match without any colours on, without any scarf or displaying any flag, thats fine and no one ever takes issue with those who choose this.

However the same must then also go for those who choose to enjoy the game in the manner they wish which may include displaying flags etc.

Not only has Rangers got many outside connections to ulster but we have in the past had many players from those shores, we have one of its finest in our ranks at present and im sure there will be many more in the future.When you see tricolours at old trafford etc do you here any complaints ??? Well its no different than that.

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I dont think anyone has problems with fans believing we are both - unless their actions in support of those beliefs goes too far and hurts the club

Then we have a debate and due to the nature of the beast, a heated one

But, again that comes under the interpretation of what hurts the club. These days everything the Rangers support do is turned against us by the press in this country. We cannot even have a card display depicting the flag of our nation without being compared to Nazis.

I agree that the Red Hand Salutes need to be binned, they just create a misconception of our support and gives our detractors ammunition. That is the last thing we need.

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I cant see bluepeters problem. As one who was dragged up on an Inverness council estate, the RHOU has nowt to do with me personally, but i love to see it fly as i've associated it with our magnificent support since i first saw it as a young child in the early 70s.

Its as if you've got an axe to grind though, so you grind away......

Coming from the very same estate, I mirror those views. Then, through membership of the Orange and ABOD, I came to feel more connected to the RHOU, the Scottish Saltire and the Union Flag, together. I really can't see why any Rangers fan, young or old, would like to see us disassociate ourselves from the RHOU. Certainly not a memory of the generation of our support that I grew up with.

:rangers:

So people agreeing with each other is a problem now bauba ?

Aye a 'Rangers fan' doesn't like bears agreeing with each other.

A bit obvious that one :rolleyes:

:craphead:

But all in all, I dont mind flags like the red hand or Union Jacks - I would prefer other flags but I dont have a problem with them

I bet you would :crabp:

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Dont know what you are inferring to but its pretty much known I would prefer flags of Scotland and maybe flags with our club crest but ive no real problem with flags in general

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