Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

D'Artagnan

What is that strange red hand ?

Recommended Posts

even if we flew nothing but saltires, our enemies would still find fault.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont want rangers to be associated with any political, religious or other cause other than great football, sportsmanship and be all inclusive.

This is what annoys me.

People do, in fact I think the majority do. If it wasn't for this 'baggage', Rangers most likely wouldn't be what or where we are today.

If, as you say, you don't want to be associated with anything other than football, then that's fine. But please, do nothing and say nothing. Don't try and change what Rangers Football Club is all about.

This bugs me so much. We have people on here who claim to support Rangers, yet they hate almost everything it stands for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I dont want rangers to be associated with any political, religious or other cause other than great football, sportsmanship and be all inclusive.

This is what annoys me.

People do, in fact I think the majority do. If it wasn't for this 'baggage', Rangers most likely wouldn't be what or where we are today.

If, as you say, you don't want to be associated with anything other than football, then that's fine. But please, do nothing and say nothing. Don't try and change what Rangers Football Club is all about.

This bugs me so much. We have people on here who claim to support Rangers, yet they hate almost everything it stands for.

Davy - sorry mate, but that argument is pish - we wouldnt be what we are today? You mean we wouldnt be under attack from all sides? You mean we might be respected by all and sundry?

Noone is trying to change anything mate about the club - just saying that we prefer the hand signal not to be used becaus eof the potential embrassment to the club - that is not "Changing the club" in any way shape or form mate

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
even if we flew nothing but saltires, our enemies would still find fault.

unless they were green and white saltires.

that was a REAL disgrace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dont know what you are inferring to but its pretty much known I would prefer flags of Scotland and maybe flags with our club crest but ive no real problem with flags in general

wasnt trying to say anything :pipe:

:crabp:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I dont want rangers to be associated with any political, religious or other cause other than great football, sportsmanship and be all inclusive.

This is what annoys me.

People do, in fact I think the majority do. If it wasn't for this 'baggage', Rangers most likely wouldn't be what or where we are today.

If, as you say, you don't want to be associated with anything other than football, then that's fine. But please, do nothing and say nothing. Don't try and change what Rangers Football Club is all about.

This bugs me so much. We have people on here who claim to support Rangers, yet they hate almost everything it stands for.

Davy - sorry mate, but that argument is pish - we wouldnt be what we are today? You mean we wouldnt be under attack from all sides? You mean we might be respected by all and sundry?

Noone is trying to change anything mate about the club - just saying that we prefer the hand signal not to be used becaus eof the potential embrassment to the club - that is not "Changing the club" in any way shape or form mate

davy is spot on never be ashamed of our past because we are the people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dont know what you are inferring to but its pretty much known I would prefer flags of Scotland and maybe flags with our club crest but ive no real problem with flags in general

wasnt trying to say anything :pipe:

Childish

:crabp:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I dont want rangers to be associated with any political, religious or other cause other than great football, sportsmanship and be all inclusive.

This is what annoys me.

People do, in fact I think the majority do. If it wasn't for this 'baggage', Rangers most likely wouldn't be what or where we are today.

If, as you say, you don't want to be associated with anything other than football, then that's fine. But please, do nothing and say nothing. Don't try and change what Rangers Football Club is all about.

This bugs me so much. We have people on here who claim to support Rangers, yet they hate almost everything it stands for.

Davy - sorry mate, but that argument is pish - we wouldnt be what we are today? You mean we wouldnt be under attack from all sides? You mean we might be respected by all and sundry?

Noone is trying to change anything mate about the club - just saying that we prefer the hand signal not to be used becaus eof the potential embrassment to the club - that is not "Changing the club" in any way shape or form mate

davy is spot on never be ashamed of our past because we are the people.

Not ashamed of anything Minstral

Just that whole - we wouldnt be who we are today pish is IMO exactly that - who knows how the club would have grown - it was certainly a huge club long before we grew links with the mainly protestant population of western scotland - we were huge long before we grew links with unionism. If we had went down a different path, we would have been just as huge, and potentially more respected

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I dont want rangers to be associated with any political, religious or other cause other than great football, sportsmanship and be all inclusive.

This is what annoys me.

People do, in fact I think the majority do. If it wasn't for this 'baggage', Rangers most likely wouldn't be what or where we are today.

If, as you say, you don't want to be associated with anything other than football, then that's fine. But please, do nothing and say nothing. Don't try and change what Rangers Football Club is all about.

This bugs me so much. We have people on here who claim to support Rangers, yet they hate almost everything it stands for.

Davy - sorry mate, but that argument is pish - we wouldnt be what we are today? You mean we wouldnt be under attack from all sides? You mean we might be respected by all and sundry?

Noone is trying to change anything mate about the club - just saying that we prefer the hand signal not to be used becaus eof the potential embrassment to the club - that is not "Changing the club" in any way shape or form mate

BluePeter said he does not want the club to have links with religion or politics, which it clearly has. If that's not trying to change us, then I don't know what is.

To be quite honest, I can't be bothered with this. I don't know how many debates I've had with yourself or others about issues like this and it seems neither of us will change our opinions.

I don't know why you or others put yourself through the pain of supporting Rangers Football Club, as you clearly cannot stand the 'baggage' that comes with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dont know what you are inferring to but its pretty much known I would prefer flags of Scotland and maybe flags with our club crest but ive no real problem with flags in general

wasnt trying to say anything :pipe:

:crabp:

childish

:crabdel: :crabp:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I dont want rangers to be associated with any political, religious or other cause other than great football, sportsmanship and be all inclusive.

This is what annoys me.

People do, in fact I think the majority do. If it wasn't for this 'baggage', Rangers most likely wouldn't be what or where we are today.

If, as you say, you don't want to be associated with anything other than football, then that's fine. But please, do nothing and say nothing. Don't try and change what Rangers Football Club is all about.

This bugs me so much. We have people on here who claim to support Rangers, yet they hate almost everything it stands for.

Davy - sorry mate, but that argument is pish - we wouldnt be what we are today? You mean we wouldnt be under attack from all sides? You mean we might be respected by all and sundry?

Noone is trying to change anything mate about the club - just saying that we prefer the hand signal not to be used becaus eof the potential embrassment to the club - that is not "Changing the club" in any way shape or form mate

BluePeter said he does not want the club to have links with religion or politics, which it clearly has. If that's not trying to change us, then I don't know what is.

To be quite honest, I can't be bothered with this. I don't know how many debates I've had with yourself or others about issues like this and it seems neither of us will change our opinions.

I don't know why you or others put yourself through the pain of supporting Rangers Football Club, as you clearly cannot stand the 'baggage' that comes with it.

There is my problem exactly - your last sentence - you clearly feel that if I dont agree with the politics and religions that you think come with being a Rangers supporter, then I have no busines being a supporter. That is the kind of nonsense the club itself has been fighting the last 20 years

There is no baggage with being a Rangers fan - I take the rough with the smooth gladly - I endured the early 80s, and Ill endure any other down spell in our fortunes. But I will never think anyone a lesser fan of my club because of what faith they are or what their politics are

You are not the only tired one here mate

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With respect to you all change is EXACTLY what I would like to see. Change happens constantly. (The only constant in life is change).

All Seated stadiums are a change that was led by Rangers after the Ibrox disaster, some bemoan the loss of terracing, but safty became of paramount concern for many. So as a club we have embraced changes and need to embrace more.

There are certain elements of the 'club' I dont like. WE have the BEST football traditions, a football history that is second to none and these are things I want to be assoiated with by supporting the club. One of the things I dont buy into is bigotry, we still have it at the club and it still runs as an undercurrent but (IMHO) this must change. We have made TREMENDOUS steps in getting to grips with it. This change includes having to get rid of Billy Boys. We have also lost the majority of those who do the 'red hand' salute (which was far too like a Nazi salute for me) although a few still use it, and to the clubs detriment (IMO). There are those who will NOT accept change and want to stick to outmoded concepts but it is time for the club to be Dissasociated with unionism and protestants causes, in fact anything political at all. Its Football that ties most of us to the club and Rangers are no more than the best football club in the world (IMO).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
With respect to you all change is EXACTLY what I would like to see. Change happens constantly. (The only constant in life is change).

All Seated stadiums are a change that was led by Rangers after the Ibrox disaster, some bemoan the loss of terracing, but safty became of paramount concern for many. So as a club we have embraced changes and need to embrace more.

There are certain elements of the 'club' I dont like. WE have the BEST football traditions, a football history that is second to none and these are things I want to be assoiated with by supporting the club. One of the things I dont buy into is bigotry, we still have it at the club and it still runs as an undercurrent but (IMHO) this must change. We have made TREMENDOUS steps in getting to grips with it. This change includes having to get rid of Billy Boys. We have also lost the majority of those who do the 'red hand' salute (which was far too like a Nazi salute for me) although a few still use it, and to the clubs detriment (IMO). There are those who will NOT accept change and want to stick to outmoded concepts but it is time for the club to be Dissasociated with unionism and protestants causes, in fact anything political at all. Its Football that ties most of us to the club and Rangers are no more than the best football club in the world (IMO).

Sorry but what is this Bigotry at rangers that you speak of ?

Unionism and Protestantism will always be part of our clubs history and traditions and our supporter, so if you dont like it then the best thing would be to respect that the majority of our supporters are proud of our history, if not then you would be better off at another club.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I dont want rangers to be associated with any political, religious or other cause other than great football, sportsmanship and be all inclusive.

This is what annoys me.

People do, in fact I think the majority do. If it wasn't for this 'baggage', Rangers most likely wouldn't be what or where we are today.

If, as you say, you don't want to be associated with anything other than football, then that's fine. But please, do nothing and say nothing. Don't try and change what Rangers Football Club is all about.

This bugs me so much. We have people on here who claim to support Rangers, yet they hate almost everything it stands for.

Davy - sorry mate, but that argument is pish - we wouldnt be what we are today? You mean we wouldnt be under attack from all sides? You mean we might be respected by all and sundry?

Noone is trying to change anything mate about the club - just saying that we prefer the hand signal not to be used becaus eof the potential embrassment to the club - that is not "Changing the club" in any way shape or form mate

BluePeter said he does not want the club to have links with religion or politics, which it clearly has. If that's not trying to change us, then I don't know what is.

To be quite honest, I can't be bothered with this. I don't know how many debates I've had with yourself or others about issues like this and it seems neither of us will change our opinions.

I don't know why you or others put yourself through the pain of supporting Rangers Football Club, as you clearly cannot stand the 'baggage' that comes with it.

There is my problem exactly - your last sentence - you clearly feel that if I dont agree with the politics and religions that you think come with being a Rangers supporter, then I have no busines being a supporter. That is the kind of nonsense the club itself has been fighting the last 20 years

There is no baggage with being a Rangers fan - I take the rough with the smooth gladly - I endured the early 80s, and Ill endure any other down spell in our fortunes. But I will never think anyone a lesser fan of my club because of what faith they are or what their politics are

You are not the only tired one here mate

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said you were a lesser fan for not sharing our clubs beliefs.

I'm not religious myself, but I appreciate and respect our clubs background and culture, and it is something that I am very proud of. You don't have to be a Protestant, you don't have to be a Unionist - but at the very least you should recognise that they both played a massive part in what Rangers are today, and it would be wrong to try and erase either from the clubs image.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Whoopee - and what the hell has this got to do with Football and Rangers (apart from the fact that some still try to tie the club in to all that protestant baggage we carry and some wave it at Rangers games)

Sorry perhaps I didnt make it easy enough for you to understand - my apologies.

However we continually refer to the Rangers family....the Rangers Community...I would have thought that the fact the club allowed the airbrushing from an official club publication, the flag of the second largest geographical population of Rangers supporters in the world to have plenty to do with football.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As I have stated many times on this topic and others - To me Rangers are a FOOTBALL club. The traditions and histoy I want to be associated with are the football ones. The rest is just baggage.

The rest is baggage ?

So as Andy mentioned earlier - Man U fans flying tricolours is just "baggage" ?

Or are you confusing sectarianism with a people's right to fly their recognised flag ?

So should we say to our supporters from Ulster....yes we are quite happy to take your money....keep making those huge expensive trips every Saturday to support our club...but for heavens sake dont wave your flag ?

Should we also tell the Inverness Loyal ...or any other supporters club that they should not wave their geographical region on banners ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
With respect to you all change is EXACTLY what I would like to see. Change happens constantly. (The only constant in life is change).

All Seated stadiums are a change that was led by Rangers after the Ibrox disaster, some bemoan the loss of terracing, but safty became of paramount concern for many. So as a club we have embraced changes and need to embrace more.

There are certain elements of the 'club' I dont like. WE have the BEST football traditions, a football history that is second to none and these are things I want to be assoiated with by supporting the club. One of the things I dont buy into is bigotry, we still have it at the club and it still runs as an undercurrent but (IMHO) this must change. We have made TREMENDOUS steps in getting to grips with it. This change includes having to get rid of Billy Boys. We have also lost the majority of those who do the 'red hand' salute (which was far too like a Nazi salute for me) although a few still use it, and to the clubs detriment (IMO). There are those who will NOT accept change and want to stick to outmoded concepts but it is time for the club to be Dissasociated with unionism and protestants causes, in fact anything political at all. Its Football that ties most of us to the club and Rangers are no more than the best football club in the world (IMO).

Bluepeter - I have to call you to task - I honestly believe there is no bigotry at the club - a section of our fans still hold on to biggoted ideals IMO but I think we need to draw the line between the club and a small minority of the fans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not religious myself, but I appreciate and respect our clubs background and culture, and it is something that I am very proud of. You don't have to be a Protestant, you don't have to be a Unionist - but at the very least you should recognise that they both played a massive part in what Rangers are today, and it would be wrong to try and erase either from the clubs image.

I agree with you to the point where nothing anybody does can erasde parts of our history - we can only mould our future

I would argue that the clubs signing history and the fans chice of songs etc has led us to being a club on the defensive today. I would argue we would be just as big if we went down a slightly different road - not saying we should have ditched protestant links, but maybe embraced those links with the all inclusive dignity which we are moving towards today. If we had done this 20 years ago - we clearly would not be under attack as many say we are in this day and age

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree with you to the point where nothing anybody does can erasde parts of our history - we can only mould our future

I would argue that the clubs signing history and the fans chice of songs etc has led us to being a club on the defensive today. I would argue we would be just as big if we went down a slightly different road - not saying we should have ditched protestant links, but maybe embraced those links with the all inclusive dignity which we are moving towards today. If we had done this 20 years ago - we clearly would not be under attack as many say we are in this day and age

Which is of course only your opinion - an opinion which differs from that of Graham Walker who cites evidence in his writing that Rangers gained in popularity over other Glasgow rivals due to both their geographical location and Protestant identity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree with you to the point where nothing anybody does can erasde parts of our history - we can only mould our future

I would argue that the clubs signing history and the fans chice of songs etc has led us to being a club on the defensive today. I would argue we would be just as big if we went down a slightly different road - not saying we should have ditched protestant links, but maybe embraced those links with the all inclusive dignity which we are moving towards today. If we had done this 20 years ago - we clearly would not be under attack as many say we are in this day and age

Which is of course only your opinion - an opinion which differs from that of Graham Walker who cites evidence in his writing that Rangers gained in popularity over other Glasgow rivals due to both their geographical location and Protestant identity.

It's all opinions Dart - actually, you kinda back up my argument - I agree with what you say - that the make up of the support does make us who we are today - but my opinion was that if we had taken a slightly different path - i.e cleaned our act up 20 years ago like we are doing now - then we would not be under attack in the same way that we are today

Incidentally - the bit about popularity intrigues me - who would you say are more popular today? I would like to say Rangers but I actually think that outside glasgow, Celtic are the more popular club right now - especially with neutrals

Incidentally - welcome back, hope things are well for you and yours

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree with you to the point where nothing anybody does can erasde parts of our history - we can only mould our future

I would argue that the clubs signing history and the fans chice of songs etc has led us to being a club on the defensive today. I would argue we would be just as big if we went down a slightly different road - not saying we should have ditched protestant links, but maybe embraced those links with the all inclusive dignity which we are moving towards today. If we had done this 20 years ago - we clearly would not be under attack as many say we are in this day and age

Which is of course only your opinion - an opinion which differs from that of Graham Walker who cites evidence in his writing that Rangers gained in popularity over other Glasgow rivals due to both their geographical location and Protestant identity.

It's all opinions Dart - actually, you kinda back up my argument - I agree with what you say - that the make up of the support does make us who we are today - but my opinion was that if we had taken a slightly different path - i.e cleaned our act up 20 years ago like we are doing now - then we would not be under attack in the same way that we are today

Incidentally - the bit about popularity intrigues me - who would you say are more popular today? I would like to say Rangers but I actually think that outside glasgow, Celtic are the more popular club right now - especially with neutrals

Incidentally - welcome back, hope things are well for you and yours

Well depends Bauba what you term an opinion - Walker's is based on fairly extensive research he has undertaken and is supported by facts.

Bill Murray in his book "Old Firm and Sectarianism" carries a similar theme - that the Scottish people wanted a football club which would express their culture and religion in a similar way as Celtic did for the Irish/Catholic community in Scotland - Rangers became that chosen platform.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some people on this site will say I am not a true Rangers fan because of certain political beliefs I hold. I am a proud protestant, but before any of that comes into play Rangers are the priority for me. Why shouldn't we hold onto our heritage as countless others clubs do. Yes there are some elements of our support we could do without quite frankly but for those who are pround to be rangers fans, pround to be protestant, British, loyalist whatever then that is up to them, how dare anyone tell anyone what to think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree with you to the point where nothing anybody does can erasde parts of our history - we can only mould our future

I would argue that the clubs signing history and the fans chice of songs etc has led us to being a club on the defensive today. I would argue we would be just as big if we went down a slightly different road - not saying we should have ditched protestant links, but maybe embraced those links with the all inclusive dignity which we are moving towards today. If we had done this 20 years ago - we clearly would not be under attack as many say we are in this day and age

Which is of course only your opinion - an opinion which differs from that of Graham Walker who cites evidence in his writing that Rangers gained in popularity over other Glasgow rivals due to both their geographical location and Protestant identity.

It's all opinions Dart - actually, you kinda back up my argument - I agree with what you say - that the make up of the support does make us who we are today - but my opinion was that if we had taken a slightly different path - i.e cleaned our act up 20 years ago like we are doing now - then we would not be under attack in the same way that we are today

Incidentally - the bit about popularity intrigues me - who would you say are more popular today? I would like to say Rangers but I actually think that outside glasgow, Celtic are the more popular club right now - especially with neutrals

Incidentally - welcome back, hope things are well for you and yours

Well depends Bauba what you term an opinion - Walker's is based on fairly extensive research he has undertaken and is supported by facts.

Bill Murray in his book "Old Firm and Sectarianism" carries a similar theme - that the Scottish people wanted a football club which would express their culture and religion in a similar way as Celtic did for the Irish/Catholic community in Scotland - Rangers became that chosen platform.

Dart, the problem is that I am not arguing with you on your point about Walker - it is entirely different from the point I was making - I agree with Walker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×