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minstral

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Are you suggesting that as some of the beliefs and morals Rangers were founded on dont fit in with todays society we should abandon them?

To my knowledge, the four men from Garelochhead, Shandon and Rhu who formed the club had one goal in mind - to form a football club. There is no record whatsoever of the club founders setting out to achieve this with a focus on religious beliefs or morality. So, erm, what are you talking about?

I know there is a new book being written by a Helensburgh man about the founders with new information about them - I understand Rangers played against Helensburgh as a notable example - and part of it's focus will celebrate the fact that The Rangers are a club formed by Scottish Highlanders.

Next thing you'll be tellin us that it was William Wallace (Played by that mad catholic zealot mel gibson of course) that founded Rangers ! What a fcukin load of spin bollocks ! :sherlock:

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Next thing you'll be tellin us that it was William Wallace (Played by that mad catholic zealot mel gibson of course) that founded Rangers ! What a fcukin load of spin bollocks ! :sherlock:

So, basically, you're not only admitting you don't know about the foundation of your club, but you're happy to declare your ignorance of the facts publicly?

Don't take my word for it - buy a book, check the internet, ask some Rangers men who know, then when you are finished blushing see how you feel about your statement.

Do you know who the brothers Moses and Peter McNeil, Peter Campbell and William McBeath are? At all? Where they are from?

How embarrassing for you.

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lies in religious beliefs and religious morality and to abandon them would be to forget everything that Rangers stands for!

This is just drivel...please give me an example of the "religious morality" we have abandoned? As far as i'm aware there has been no official statement from Rangers telling us to start killing grannies and robbing pensioners.

Most our fans have no real religious belief's at all...most are paper Protestants just like I used to be. And who is asking you to abandon being a Protestant??? I can not see one example where Rangers have asked any fan to stop being a Protestant and I can't think of one example where Rangers or any Rangers fans have requested that we abandon Christian morals and start going around raping and pillaging towns and villages!

Rangers do not stand for anything other than football anymore. Do you not understand? The club has no ties anymore to any official religion and i'm not sure it ever did! (it certainly did not when it was formed).

Nobody at Rangers is asking you to stop being a Protestant...go to church, go on your Orange Walks, go to your lodge for a drink...what's the problem?

are you still here ffs you should have been punted with yer pal John Knox

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Next thing you'll be tellin us that it was William Wallace (Played by that mad catholic zealot mel gibson of course) that founded Rangers ! What a fcukin load of spin bollocks ! :sherlock:

So, basically, you're not only admitting you don't know about the foundation of your club, but you're happy to declare your ignorance of the facts publicly?

Don't take my word for it - buy a book, check the internet, ask some Rangers men who know, then when you are finished blushing see how you feel about your statement.

Do you know who the brothers Moses and Peter McNeil, Peter Campbell and William McBeath are? At all? Where they are from?How embarrassing for you.

Aye they were all red heided woad dyed faced kilted cattle rustlin Highlanders frae the Isle o' Skye, just read that history on the internet you were talkin aboot ! Do me a favour ! doh:sherlock:

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ffs are you another one who still believes Johston was the first catholic on our books :lol:

Far from it - but I cant fail to recognise that the signing of Super Mo smashed an acknowledged, but never spoken of tradition worthy of being broken. His signing publicly and profoundly declared that The Rangers had shifted in outlook.

Which 'tradition' is this?

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Aye they were all red heided woad dyed faced kilted cattle rustlin Highlanders frae the Isle o' Skye, just read that history on the internet you were talkin aboot ! Do me a favour ! doh:sherlock:

You just read it and you didn't understand where they are from or who they were or, what, both?

I'm from Garelochhead myself - nowhere near Skye. Well inside the highlands mind you :rangers:

I know - you didn't know. Hows the riddy?

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lies in religious beliefs and religious morality and to abandon them would be to forget everything that Rangers stands for!

This is just drivel...please give me an example of the "religious morality" we have abandoned? As far as i'm aware there has been no official statement from Rangers telling us to start killing grannies and robbing pensioners.

Most our fans have no real religious belief's at all...most are paper Protestants just like I used to be. And who is asking you to abandon being a Protestant??? I can not see one example where Rangers have asked any fan to stop being a Protestant and I can't think of one example where Rangers or any Rangers fans have requested that we abandon Christian morals and start going around raping and pillaging towns and villages!

Rangers do not stand for anything other than football anymore. Do you not understand? The club has no ties anymore to any official religion and i'm not sure it ever did! (it certainly did not when it was formed).

Nobody at Rangers is asking you to stop being a Protestant...go to church, go on your Orange Walks, go to your lodge for a drink...what's the problem?

are you still here ffs you should have been punted with yer pal John Knox

(tu) Place is hoaching wiv them, come back Coops fur fcuks sake ! :sherlock:

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To my knowledge, the four men from Garelochhead, Shandon and Rhu who formed the club had one goal in mind - to form a football club. There is no record whatsoever of the club founders setting out to achieve this with a focus on religious beliefs or morality.

On exactly what is your knowledge based?

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Aye they were all red heided woad dyed faced kilted cattle rustlin Highlanders frae the Isle o' Skye, just read that history on the internet you were talkin aboot ! Do me a favour ! doh:sherlock:

You just read it and you didn't understand where they are from or who they were or, what, both?

I'm from Garelochhead myself - nowhere near Skye. Well inside the highlands mind you :rangers:

I know - you didn't know. Hows the riddy?

I was being sarcastic ya fanny, they were as near to being Highlanders as rod stewart is a Scotland fan. They were awe middle class boys with good Protestant traditions the type of traditions some interlopers from the dark side on here want to destroy. :sherlock:

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To my knowledge, the four men from Garelochhead, Shandon and Rhu who formed the club had one goal in mind - to form a football club. There is no record whatsoever of the club founders setting out to achieve this with a focus on religious beliefs or morality.

On exactly what is your knowledge based?

Taxi Owners Association, Royston Branch. :sherlock:

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leftyger, moses mcneil, tartan teddy, ace, batman, oleg, you all live in a dream world if you think our protestant culture is fading fast. please tel me what songs are sung loudest at our games ? , its the protestant ones, so dont talk rubbish, also all the pubs you go into on match days you will hear the songs getting blasted out. right enough you wont hear them in your pub bairds bar, plus remember without the good protestant support rangers would be just another club, remember the orange order held their annual orange service at ibrox , until the do gooders like you lot got all offended, tell me this why are you lot never seen at ibrox outside the ground asking our fans to stop singing our bad songs,or telling them to leave our protestant culture in the past. because they would chase you and laugh at you, but none of you have the bottle to even try, all mouth and no action, and remember that you lot are the minority and are the type of fans that would sell our culture and traditions down the river. no surrender

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leftyger, moses mcneil, tartan teddy, ace, batman, oleg, you all live in a dream world if you think our protestant culture is fading fast. please tel me what songs are sung loudest at our games ? , its the protestant ones, so dont talk rubbish, also all the pubs you go into on match days you will hear the songs getting blasted out. right enough you wont hear them in your pub bairds bar, plus remember without the good protestant support rangers would be just another club, remember the orange order held their annual orange service at ibrox , until the do gooders like you lot got all offended, tell me this why are you lot never seen at ibrox outside the ground asking our fans to stop singing our bad songs,or telling them to leave our protestant culture in the past. because they would chase you and laugh at you, but none of you have the bottle to even try, all mouth and no action, and remember that you lot are the minority and are the type of fans that would sell our culture and traditions down the river. no surrender

conspicuous by their absence at matches minstral, couldn't agree more! (tu)

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leftyger, moses mcneil, tartan teddy, ace, batman, oleg, you all live in a dream world if you think our protestant culture is fading fast. please tel me what songs are sung loudest at our games ? , its the protestant ones, so dont talk rubbish, also all the pubs you go into on match days you will hear the songs getting blasted out. right enough you wont hear them in your pub bairds bar, plus remember without the good protestant support rangers would be just another club, remember the orange order held their annual orange service at ibrox , until the do gooders like you lot got all offended, tell me this why are you lot never seen at ibrox outside the ground asking our fans to stop singing our bad songs,or telling them to leave our protestant culture in the past. because they would chase you and laugh at you, but none of you have the bottle to even try, all mouth and no action, and remember that you lot are the minority and are the type of fans that would sell our culture and traditions down the river. no surrender

conspicuous by their absence at matches minstral, couldn't agree more! (tu)

(tu) Well said lads ! :sherlock:

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lies in religious beliefs and religious morality and to abandon them would be to forget everything that Rangers stands for!

This is just drivel...please give me an example of the "religious morality" we have abandoned? As far as i'm aware there has been no official statement from Rangers telling us to start killing grannies and robbing pensioners.

Most our fans have no real religious belief's at all...most are paper Protestants just like I used to be. And who is asking you to abandon being a Protestant??? I can not see one example where Rangers have asked any fan to stop being a Protestant and I can't think of one example where Rangers or any Rangers fans have requested that we abandon Christian morals and start going around raping and pillaging towns and villages!

Rangers do not stand for anything other than football anymore. Do you not understand? The club has no ties anymore to any official religion and i'm not sure it ever did! (it certainly did not when it was formed).

Nobody at Rangers is asking you to stop being a Protestant...go to church, go on your Orange Walks, go to your lodge for a drink...what's the problem?

Sorry, so, should we no longer see ourselves as "more than a club" now then in your opinion?

I am always confused when I see "Rangers fans" on forums saying things like this, how we should leave everything behind etc etc, how embarrassing it is, referring to older, loyal supporters as dinosaurs etc.

Why should anyone have to change their beliefs? and what the club is about?

If you think they should, then, answer this

Why is it appluded, lauded in the press etc etc when our neighbours do the very same thing? When they celebrate their heritage and roots? Sing their "folk songs"?

Much as I detest them, as far as I can see, their support and their club are not changing that aspect at all, and appear to fight against changing it, yet, I look at Rangers boards, and see guys like Del and Minstral rounded on for basically saying they are proud of the heritage, and do not like the way the club is changing and becoming timid and a shell of what it once was.

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lies in religious beliefs and religious morality and to abandon them would be to forget everything that Rangers stands for!

This is just drivel...please give me an example of the "religious morality" we have abandoned? As far as i'm aware there has been no official statement from Rangers telling us to start killing grannies and robbing pensioners.

Most our fans have no real religious belief's at all...most are paper Protestants just like I used to be. And who is asking you to abandon being a Protestant??? I can not see one example where Rangers have asked any fan to stop being a Protestant and I can't think of one example where Rangers or any Rangers fans have requested that we abandon Christian morals and start going around raping and pillaging towns and villages!

Rangers do not stand for anything other than football anymore. Do you not understand? The club has no ties anymore to any official religion and i'm not sure it ever did! (it certainly did not when it was formed).

Nobody at Rangers is asking you to stop being a Protestant...go to church, go on your Orange Walks, go to your lodge for a drink...what's the problem?

Sorry, so, should we no longer see ourselves as "more than a club" now then in your opinion?

I am always confused when I see "Rangers fans" on forums saying things like this, how we should leave everything behind etc etc, how embarrassing it is, referring to older, loyal supporters as dinosaurs etc.

Why should anyone have to change their beliefs? and what the club is about?

If you think they should, then, answer this

Why is it appluded, lauded in the press etc etc when our neighbours do the very same thing? When they celebrate their heritage and roots? Sing their "folk songs"?

Much as I detest them, as far as I can see, their support and their club are not changing that aspect at all, and appear to fight against changing it, yet, I look at Rangers boards, and see guys like Del and Minstral rounded on for basically saying they are proud of the heritage, and do not like the way the club is changing and becoming timid and a shell of what it once was.

outlaw mate you are spot on about the dark side being applauded, yet we get abused for singing our songs.

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lies in religious beliefs and religious morality and to abandon them would be to forget everything that Rangers stands for!

This is just drivel...please give me an example of the "religious morality" we have abandoned? As far as i'm aware there has been no official statement from Rangers telling us to start killing grannies and robbing pensioners.

Most our fans have no real religious belief's at all...most are paper Protestants just like I used to be. And who is asking you to abandon being a Protestant??? I can not see one example where Rangers have asked any fan to stop being a Protestant and I can't think of one example where Rangers or any Rangers fans have requested that we abandon Christian morals and start going around raping and pillaging towns and villages!

Rangers do not stand for anything other than football anymore. Do you not understand? The club has no ties anymore to any official religion and i'm not sure it ever did! (it certainly did not when it was formed).

Nobody at Rangers is asking you to stop being a Protestant...go to church, go on your Orange Walks, go to your lodge for a drink...what's the problem?

Sorry, so, should we no longer see ourselves as "more than a club" now then in your opinion?

I am always confused when I see "Rangers fans" on forums saying things like this, how we should leave everything behind etc etc, how embarrassing it is, referring to older, loyal supporters as dinosaurs etc.

Why should anyone have to change their beliefs? and what the club is about?

If you think they should, then, answer this

Why is it appluded, lauded in the press etc etc when our neighbours do the very same thing? When they celebrate their heritage and roots? Sing their "folk songs"?

Much as I detest them, as far as I can see, their support and their club are not changing that aspect at all, and appear to fight against changing it, yet, I look at Rangers boards, and see guys like Del and Minstral rounded on for basically saying they are proud of the heritage, and do not like the way the club is changing and becoming timid and a shell of what it once was.

(tu) Great argument mate and if more posters took this outlook we wouldn't be on the backfoot today fighting on a front that should be our recognised heritage ! :sherlock:

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leftyger, moses mcneil, tartan teddy, ace, batman, oleg, you all live in a dream world if you think our protestant culture is fading fast. please tel me what songs are sung loudest at our games ? , its the protestant ones, so dont talk rubbish, also all the pubs you go into on match days you will hear the songs getting blasted out. right enough you wont hear them in your pub bairds bar, plus remember without the good protestant support rangers would be just another club, remember the orange order held their annual orange service at ibrox , until the do gooders like you lot got all offended, tell me this why are you lot never seen at ibrox outside the ground asking our fans to stop singing our bad songs,or telling them to leave our protestant culture in the past. because they would chase you and laugh at you, but none of you have the bottle to even try, all mouth and no action, and remember that you lot are the minority and are the type of fans that would sell our culture and traditions down the river. no surrender

Criticise what I say,not what you assume I say. My only point on this thread was that religious identity wasn't a part of the club's history for long time. I never wanted any songs to be removed. FTP never came across well, but I'd love the Billy Boys to return, probably with revised lyrics. I'm not a lover of the Sash, but have no problem with it and think Derry's Walls is as good a song of defiance as you'll find anywhere.

I didn't want UEFA, Spiers or anyone on our backs. I think we were shafted and that they are much worse with their IRA love-ins on British soil, especially cities bombed by the scum and sectarian songs about "orange bs", "huns" and "masons". I have friends in the OO and some who have left it over the years. That's up to them. It's not for me but I have no problem with others joining or supporting them.

I know you're passionate about this minstral and I respect that, but I don't think we can or should hark back to the old days. UEFA may harm our club and that's more important than any song. It's not a black and white issue. There are shades of grey. I often find leftyger too PC and you guys a bit too evangilical about the whole thing. Time has moved on and will continue to move on. Nobody even cares what religion our players are and that is a good thing. That's a change we should never roll back.

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lies in religious beliefs and religious morality and to abandon them would be to forget everything that Rangers stands for!

This is just drivel...please give me an example of the "religious morality" we have abandoned? As far as i'm aware there has been no official statement from Rangers telling us to start killing grannies and robbing pensioners.

Most our fans have no real religious belief's at all...most are paper Protestants just like I used to be. And who is asking you to abandon being a Protestant??? I can not see one example where Rangers have asked any fan to stop being a Protestant and I can't think of one example where Rangers or any Rangers fans have requested that we abandon Christian morals and start going around raping and pillaging towns and villages!

Rangers do not stand for anything other than football anymore. Do you not understand? The club has no ties anymore to any official religion and i'm not sure it ever did! (it certainly did not when it was formed).

Nobody at Rangers is asking you to stop being a Protestant...go to church, go on your Orange Walks, go to your lodge for a drink...what's the problem?

Sorry, so, should we no longer see ourselves as "more than a club" now then in your opinion?

I am always confused when I see "Rangers fans" on forums saying things like this, how we should leave everything behind etc etc, how embarrassing it is, referring to older, loyal supporters as dinosaurs etc.

Why should anyone have to change their beliefs? and what the club is about?

If you think they should, then, answer this

Why is it appluded, lauded in the press etc etc when our neighbours do the very same thing? When they celebrate their heritage and roots? Sing their "folk songs"?

Much as I detest them, as far as I can see, their support and their club are not changing that aspect at all, and appear to fight against changing it, yet, I look at Rangers boards, and see guys like Del and Minstral rounded on for basically saying they are proud of the heritage, and do not like the way the club is changing and becoming timid and a shell of what it once was.

They play the downtrodden persecuted Irish Catholic (immigrant) card too well. They use the same sort of propaganda that you'd get from Sinn Fein. It's disgusting as hypocrites like Spiers laud the"rebelling against the crown". I'm not a monarchist, but I see the overwhelming hypocrisy.

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lies in religious beliefs and religious morality and to abandon them would be to forget everything that Rangers stands for!

This is just drivel...please give me an example of the "religious morality" we have abandoned? As far as i'm aware there has been no official statement from Rangers telling us to start killing grannies and robbing pensioners.

Most our fans have no real religious belief's at all...most are paper Protestants just like I used to be. And who is asking you to abandon being a Protestant??? I can not see one example where Rangers have asked any fan to stop being a Protestant and I can't think of one example where Rangers or any Rangers fans have requested that we abandon Christian morals and start going around raping and pillaging towns and villages!

Rangers do not stand for anything other than football anymore. Do you not understand? The club has no ties anymore to any official religion and i'm not sure it ever did! (it certainly did not when it was formed).

Nobody at Rangers is asking you to stop being a Protestant...go to church, go on your Orange Walks, go to your lodge for a drink...what's the problem?

Sorry, so, should we no longer see ourselves as "more than a club" now then in your opinion?

I am always confused when I see "Rangers fans" on forums saying things like this, how we should leave everything behind etc etc, how embarrassing it is, referring to older, loyal supporters as dinosaurs etc.

Why should anyone have to change their beliefs? and what the club is about?

If you think they should, then, answer this

Why is it appluded, lauded in the press etc etc when our neighbours do the very same thing? When they celebrate their heritage and roots? Sing their "folk songs"?

Much as I detest them, as far as I can see, their support and their club are not changing that aspect at all, and appear to fight against changing it, yet, I look at Rangers boards, and see guys like Del and Minstral rounded on for basically saying they are proud of the heritage, and do not like the way the club is changing and becoming timid and a shell of what it once was.

They play the downtrodden persecuted Irish Catholic (immigrant) card too well. They use the same sort of propaganda that you'd get from Sinn Fein. It's disgusting as hypocrites like Spiers laud the"rebelling against the crown". I'm not a monarchist, but I see the overwhelming hypocrisy.

See, that in itself should make you understand where guys like us are coming from. In this day and age, the minority groups are NOT downtrodden! And, to be honest, they arent using that card as much as just standing up and saying, no, no no, its our club, these are our roots, these are our songs. Something we USED to do!

The main people using that card, are the PC Brigade, as an excuse for them not doing it, at the same time telling us we should

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lies in religious beliefs and religious morality and to abandon them would be to forget everything that Rangers stands for!

This is just drivel...please give me an example of the "religious morality" we have abandoned? As far as i'm aware there has been no official statement from Rangers telling us to start killing grannies and robbing pensioners.

Most our fans have no real religious belief's at all...most are paper Protestants just like I used to be. And who is asking you to abandon being a Protestant??? I can not see one example where Rangers have asked any fan to stop being a Protestant and I can't think of one example where Rangers or any Rangers fans have requested that we abandon Christian morals and start going around raping and pillaging towns and villages!

Rangers do not stand for anything other than football anymore. Do you not understand? The club has no ties anymore to any official religion and i'm not sure it ever did! (it certainly did not when it was formed).

Nobody at Rangers is asking you to stop being a Protestant...go to church, go on your Orange Walks, go to your lodge for a drink...what's the problem?

Sorry, so, should we no longer see ourselves as "more than a club" now then in your opinion?

I am always confused when I see "Rangers fans" on forums saying things like this, how we should leave everything behind etc etc, how embarrassing it is, referring to older, loyal supporters as dinosaurs etc.

Why should anyone have to change their beliefs? and what the club is about?

If you think they should, then, answer this

Why is it appluded, lauded in the press etc etc when our neighbours do the very same thing? When they celebrate their heritage and roots? Sing their "folk songs"?

Much as I detest them, as far as I can see, their support and their club are not changing that aspect at all, and appear to fight against changing it, yet, I look at Rangers boards, and see guys like Del and Minstral rounded on for basically saying they are proud of the heritage, and do not like the way the club is changing and becoming timid and a shell of what it once was.

They play the downtrodden persecuted Irish Catholic (immigrant) card too well. They use the same sort of propaganda that you'd get from Sinn Fein. It's disgusting as hypocrites like Spiers laud the"rebelling against the crown". I'm not a monarchist, but I see the overwhelming hypocrisy.

See, that in itself should make you understand where guys like us are coming from. In this day and age, the minority groups are NOT downtrodden! And, to be honest, they arent using that card as much as just standing up and saying, no, no no, its our club, these are our roots, these are our songs. Something we USED to do!

The main people using that card, are the PC Brigade, as an excuse for them not doing it, at the same time telling us we should

I fully understand the hypocrisy, contradiction and the frustration caused by it. I remember the early 80s as a terrible time for the club. I can't hanker for that era purely for FTP or NPOR. That's nowhere near enough to justify such abject failure.

Sometimes I feel that those who want to roll back the clock are and were guilty of sticking their head in the sand. We were too slow to react to their UEFA email campaign and the media. Now UEFA are sick of emails from both sets of fans. We let them get a head start from us not fighting back. Too many of us thought, "f*ck it. I'm not emailing but I'll still sing the songs."

I reckon the people who complain about the PC brigade are the ones who did too little too late. The attitude was lazy, careless and ignorant. Some of us were on the ball, but the rest were way behind if they even bothered catching up at all.

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