Walter Smith

[port_bear 86]

I have been reading through a lot of posts on the forum (the transfer ones especially) and I keep reading the same comments of "Walter knows best" and "In Walter we trust" etc. etc. Some people seem to think that just because he is the manager he is exempt from criticism and by using these comments they can win any argument against anyone who questions Walters judgement.

Well I have to disagree with both these statements as I am very quickly losing all faith in Walter and to say "he knows best" is something I am seriously beginning to question (I doubt I'm alone on this one).

For a start his transfers since he took have been mediocre to say the least with only Cueller, Davis and Weir showing any signs of passing the grade. Thats only 3 players from more than 14 or more that he has brought to the club since he took over. Only 3 players that can be called a successful buy and for me that statistic just isnt good enough, not when you consider he has spent more than £10m.

Then there is his tactics, his negativity and his stubbornness this season to continue to play the same tired, old and out of form players just to accommodate his negative system. It was this negativity, stubbornness and failure to rotate and properly utilise the full potential of his squad that evidently cost us TWO major titles and almost destroyed our season.

Some people will be happy with our season, they will be happy at taking Celtic to the final day, they will be happy to reach a major European final and they will be happy to win two trophies. However what the point of reaching a European final, only to turn up and play for a 0-0 draw? Our tactics and performance in Manchester was nothing short of gutless and pathetic, I mean to reach a major final and to only muster 3 shots on target is a disgrace.

I can honestly say that our current style of football has NOT improved in anyway since the days of LeGuen. In my opinion under Walter our football has actually got worse and I will guarantee that not one person on this forum can honestly challenge this statement.

We are now entering into a new season, a new transfer window and the promise of big name, quality players is starting to seem like another lie, just another smokescreen to sell season tickets. In the past week alone we have been linked with players such as Marlon Harewood, Jonathan Greening, Danny Shittu and Shaun Maloney. Where exactly is this quality that we have been promised?, where are the players that are going to build on the mediocre foundations that Walter has built and take us to the next level?

Now with the immanent arrival of Kenny Miller and todays news that we have made a £1m bid for Marc Reynolds, further emphasises my fears that under Walter the style of football for the foreseeable future will continue to be negative. In my opinion to sign a player like Miller just proves that Walter will continue to play the same, negative, boring, failing 4-5-1 system again next season. A system that yes, may have taken us to Manchester, however its a system that has won us NOTHING this season.

[minstral 5,375]

I have been reading through a lot of posts on the forum (the transfer ones especially) and I keep reading the same comments of “Walter knows best†and “In Walter we trust†etc. etc. Some people seem to think that just because he is the manager he is exempt from criticism and by using these comments they can win any argument against anyone who questions Walters judgement.

Well I have to disagree with both these statements as I am very quickly losing all faith in Walter and to say “he knows best†is something I am seriously beginning to question (I doubt I’m alone on this one).

For a start his transfers since he took have been mediocre to say the least with only Cueller, Davis and Weir showing any signs of passing the grade. That’s only 3 players from more than 14 or more that he has brought to the club since he took over. Only 3 players that can be called a successful buy and for me that statistic just isn’t good enough when you consider he has spent more than £10m.

Then there is his tactics, his negativity and his stubbornness this season to continue to play the same tired, old and out of form players just to accommodate his negative system. It was this negativity, stubbornness and failure to rotate and properly utilise the full potential of his squad that evidently cost us TWO major titles and almost destroyed our season.

Some people will be happy with our season, they will be happy at taking Celtic to the final day, they will be happy to reach a major European final and they will be happy to win two trophies. However what’s the point of reaching a European final, only to turn up and play for a 0-0 draw? Our tactics and performance in Manchester was nothing short of gutless and pathetic, I mean to reach a major final and to only muster 3 shots on target is a disgrace.

I can honestly say that our current style of football has NOT improved in anyway since the days of LeGuen. In my opinion under Walter our football has actually got worse and I will guarantee that not one person on this forum can honestly challenge this statement.

We are now entering into a new season, a new transfer window and the promise of big name, quality players is starting to seem like another lie, just another smokescreen to sell season tickets. In the past week alone we have been linked with players such as Marlon Harewood, Jonathan Greening, Danny Shittu and Shaun Maloney. Where exactly is this quality that we have been promised?, where are the players that are going to build on the mediocre foundations that Walter has built and take us to the next level?

Now with the immanent arrival of Kenny Miller and today’s news that we have made a £1m bid for Marc Reynolds, further emphasises my fears that under Walter the style of football for the foreseeable future will continue to be negative. In my opinion to sign a player like Miller just proves that Walter will continue to play the same, negative, boring, failing 4-5-1 system again next season. A system that yes, may have taken us to Manchester, however it’s a system that has won us NOTHING this season.

good post but i hope you have your tin hat on, i agree with you and walter is no god but some fans think he is. at the time and i posted it on the board i thought it was the wrong move to bring walter back, and you have just posted the reasons why. first time round walter done fantastic apart from the 10 in a row season where he flung the league away big time against one of the worst celtic teams there had ever been, he also said that he had taken us as far as he could, but iwas prepared to give him a chance thinking he had changed his ways, but no its still the same negative tactics, and poor football to watch. i am still prepared to keep walter as manager, but i think he needs to change his ways and be more attacking, but he wants to sign kenny millar which tells me that we can look forward to more of the same next season.

[KERRZO 5]

If he does not get off 2 a flyer next season then he will have a lot of angry fans in the stand IMO. I still cant understand why Hutton was not sold until this summer if the money was not going to be reinvested immediately, especially when you look back and think if we had Hutton still we surely would have won the title!!!

[Blue Stars Bearette 1]

If he does not get off 2 a flyer next season then he will have a lot of angry fans in the stand IMO. I still cant understand why Hutton was not sold until this summer if the money was not going to be reinvested immediately, especially when you look back and think if we had Hutton still we surely would have won the title!!!

I am still fuming that we sold Hutton...they saw all the 0000s on the cheque and forgot we had a league to win

[Zulu 981]

I have been reading through a lot of posts on the forum (the transfer ones especially) and I keep reading the same comments of "Walter knows best" and "In Walter we trust" etc. etc. Some people seem to think that just because he is the manager he is exempt from criticism and by using these comments they can win any argument against anyone who questions Walters judgement.

Well I have to disagree with both these statements as I am very quickly losing all faith in Walter and to say "he knows best" is something I am seriously beginning to question (I doubt I'm alone on this one).

For a start his transfers since he took have been mediocre to say the least with only Cueller, Davis and Weir showing any signs of passing the grade. Thats only 3 players from more than 14 or more that he has brought to the club since he took over. Only 3 players that can be called a successful buy and for me that statistic just isnt good enough, not when you consider he has spent more than �10m.

Then there is his tactics, his negativity and his stubbornness this season to continue to play the same tired, old and out of form players just to accommodate his negative system. It was this negativity, stubbornness and failure to rotate and properly utilise the full potential of his squad that evidently cost us TWO major titles and almost destroyed our season.

Some people will be happy with our season, they will be happy at taking Celtic to the final day, they will be happy to reach a major European final and they will be happy to win two trophies. However what the point of reaching a European final, only to turn up and play for a 0-0 draw? Our tactics and performance in Manchester was nothing short of gutless and pathetic, I mean to reach a major final and to only muster 3 shots on target is a disgrace.

I can honestly say that our current style of football has NOT improved in anyway since the days of LeGuen. In my opinion under Walter our football has actually got worse and I will guarantee that not one person on this forum can honestly challenge this statement.

We are now entering into a new season, a new transfer window and the promise of big name, quality players is starting to seem like another lie, just another smokescreen to sell season tickets. In the past week alone we have been linked with players such as Marlon Harewood, Jonathan Greening, Danny Shittu and Shaun Maloney. Where exactly is this quality that we have been promised?, where are the players that are going to build on the mediocre foundations that Walter has built and take us to the next level?

Now with the immanent arrival of Kenny Miller and todays news that we have made a �1m bid for Marc Reynolds, further emphasises my fears that under Walter the style of football for the foreseeable future will continue to be negative. In my opinion to sign a player like Miller just proves that Walter will continue to play the same, negative, boring, failing 4-5-1 system again next season. A system that yes, may have taken us to Manchester, however its a system that has won us NOTHING this season.

Spot on post i agree with every word.

[McBoyd 355]

I can honestly say that our current style of football has NOT improved in anyway since the days of LeGuen. In my opinion under Walter our football has actually got worse and I will guarantee that not one person on this forum can honestly challenge this statement.

Oh but they can.

However, Le Guen made a poor start to his Ibrox career. His record across his first ten league games was the worst start to a season by an Old Firm debutant since John Greig's team won only two, drew six and lost two of their opening ten games in 1978-79.[5]

On 8 November, Rangers were knocked out of the CIS Insurance Cup at the quarter-final stage by First Division side St. Johnstone. The result, the first time Rangers had been knocked out of a cup tournament by a lower league side at home,[6][7] prompted protests outside Ibrox and demands for the situation to improve and David Murray to leave the club.

What are you basing this on? That we didn't play the 'beautiful' football that Messi and Theirry Henry do?

We were shocking under Le Guen at points, we may have attacked more but we were what, 4th/5th at one point in the league?

FFS, yes we lost out in the UEFA CUP final, but we made it to it, we beat off teams who were arguably stronger and better than us. And scored goals in the mean time as well.

We may have defended but the other teams were not good enough to break us down, thats what made us the better team on the day, and the better team to go through.

Damn, people were crying out for a manager like Walter and were surprised when he and Ally took the job back from PLG. Now we have him, its bitching and moaning.

This year we have shown great team spirit (give or take the last few weeks where the team just look knackered and dead on their feet) and Walter and Ally are the ones to make Rangers better again.

I can't see many managers out there who would be able to teach the team more about team spirit and what it is to play for rangers than Walter Smith and Ally Mccoist.

A system that yes, may have taken us to Manchester, however its a system that has won us NOTHING this season.

Apart from the league cup and the scottish cup, a cup which once was seen as the biggest thing ever, we wanted it so bad.

TWO games stood between us and a QUAD. Now i bet you had we of won in that Uefa Cup Final had we of scored a goal then defended like shit, and won, and that final day had gone the other way..

This thread and the countless other posts like it, would not be here.

(Of course there would be some, there always is, but granted not as many.)

[JohnKnox 0]

I think you are all forgetting he was brought on board to steady the ship and thats all he has done

If you want to get over excited about the SC and CIS thats your choice

[MrT 173]

was KT not signed by smith??

walter sees this team every day training and play football he will know what we need weither there quality or not in our eyes he obviously sees this players doing a job for us and suit the way we will play I just hope he is right as he was with cuellar and co,

he has a great eye for talent just think of the players we did not know much about he has and will still continue to bring to the club we wont agree with all the signings but sometimes a player just does not cut it for rangers or the spl but had a good background for example, tore andre flo, emerson

I am sure who he signs will be coming to do a jod week in week out and ill support the gers always!!

I might not back a signing he has made but I wont boo him or the player I just wont support that player for example cousin.

that is my opinion anyways but walter has done allot for us and sometimes I do find it hard to critise him for what he has done to the club in the past and last season three finals last day of the season cant get much closer than that.

[minstral 5,375]

was KT not signed by smith??

walter sees this team every day training and play football he will know what we need weither there quality or not in our eyes he obviously sees this players doing a job for us and suit the way we will play I just hope he is right as he was with cuellar and co,

he has a great eye for talent just think of the players we did not know much about he has and will still continue to bring to the club we wont agree with all the signings but sometimes a player just does not cut it for rangers or the spl but had a good background for example, tore andre flo, emerson

I am sure who he signs will be coming to do a jod week in week out and ill support the gers always!!

I might not back a signing he has made but I wont boo him or the player I just wont support that player for example cousin.

that is my opinion anyways but walter has done allot for us and sometimes I do find it hard to critise him for what he has done to the club in the past and last season three finals last day of the season cant get much closer than that.

what you forget was we were leading a two horse league and still managed to throw it away.

[McBoyd 355]

was KT not signed by smith??

walter sees this team every day training and play football he will know what we need weither there quality or not in our eyes he obviously sees this players doing a job for us and suit the way we will play I just hope he is right as he was with cuellar and co,

he has a great eye for talent just think of the players we did not know much about he has and will still continue to bring to the club we wont agree with all the signings but sometimes a player just does not cut it for rangers or the spl but had a good background for example, tore andre flo, emerson

I am sure who he signs will be coming to do a jod week in week out and ill support the gers always!!

I might not back a signing he has made but I wont boo him or the player I just wont support that player for example cousin.

that is my opinion anyways but walter has done allot for us and sometimes I do find it hard to critise him for what he has done to the club in the past and last season three finals last day of the season cant get much closer than that.

what you forget was we were leading a two horse league and still managed to throw it away.

That does sadden me im still absolutely gutted about this season, it all went downhill after the Uefa Cup Final..

But i noticed we were dead on our feet at the end of the season, the players who were giving it their all start season, (3-0 Lyon) were nowhere to be seen.

CUELLAR the exception i would say.

[brissyger 8]

The only reason we "threw" the season away was because the guys were so tired and we do not have the depth required to prevent that from happening under a massive accumulation of games. We were leading the league of almost the entire season with this so called inferior football and the only reason we lost because for once we were actually doing well in Europe. We won our first silverware in years and brought the season to the last day which is remarkable considering how far behind we were in the last two seasons.

[JohnKnox 0]

I have to admit I am not Smiths biggest fan.

I think this article about his time with Everton is interesting http://www.toffeeweb.com/club/managers/Smith.asp

It is like de-ja-vu

All Murray needed was someone who understood the club and who better than his personal friend Walter who previously went down the ladder to the Scotland job <_<

[port_bear 86]

I can honestly say that our current style of football has NOT improved in anyway since the days of LeGuen. In my opinion under Walter our football has actually got worse and I will guarantee that not one person on this forum can honestly challenge this statement.

Oh but they can.

However, Le Guen made a poor start to his Ibrox career. His record across his first ten league games was the worst start to a season by an Old Firm debutant since John Greig's team won only two, drew six and lost two of their opening ten games in 1978-79.[5]

On 8 November, Rangers were knocked out of the CIS Insurance Cup at the quarter-final stage by First Division side St. Johnstone. The result, the first time Rangers had been knocked out of a cup tournament by a lower league side at home,[6][7] prompted protests outside Ibrox and demands for the situation to improve and David Murray to leave the club.

What are you basing this on? That we didn't play the 'beautiful' football that Messi and Theirry Henry do?

We were shocking under Le Guen at points, we may have attacked more but we were what, 4th/5th at one point in the league?

FFS, yes we lost out in the UEFA CUP final, but we made it to it, we beat off teams who were arguably stronger and better than us. And scored goals in the mean time as well.

We may have defended but the other teams were not good enough to break us down, thats what made us the better team on the day, and the better team to go through.

Damn, people were crying out for a manager like Walter and were surprised when he and Ally took the job back from PLG. Now we have him, its bitching and moaning.

This year we have shown great team spirit (give or take the last few weeks where the team just look knackered and dead on their feet) and Walter and Ally are the ones to make Rangers better again.

I can't see many managers out there who would be able to teach the team more about team spirit and what it is to play for rangers than Walter Smith and Ally Mccoist.

A system that yes, may have taken us to Manchester, however its a system that has won us NOTHING this season.

Apart from the league cup and the scottish cup, a cup which once was seen as the biggest thing ever, we wanted it so bad.

TWO games stood between us and a QUAD. Now i bet you had we of won in that Uefa Cup Final had we of scored a goal then defended like shit, and won, and that final day had gone the other way..

This thread and the countless other posts like it, would not be here.

(Of course there would be some, there always is, but granted not as many.)

If memory serves me corectly but wasnt it a 4-4-2 tactic that we used in both these tournaments? We used the negative 4-5-1 tactic in Europe and for a large portion of the SPL season, two competitons that we FAILED to win. We did try the 4-5-1 in the final of the CIS cup, however it had to be changed quickly as we almost lost that game as well. Had it not been for a change of tactics which allowed Boyd to come into the game we could have quite easily been sitting here with only one trophy in the cabinet.

As for my comments about our style of football, they are based upon the fact that we can't pass, we can't attack, we can't keep possesion properly and in the majority of our games this season (Europe especially) we have allowed teams to dominate us. Since Walter has taken over can you honestly say that our football on the park has progressed? You can't can you ?

"TWO games stood between us and a QUAD. Now i bet you had we of won in that Uefa Cup Final had we of scored a goal then defended like shit, and won, and that final day had gone the other way..

This thread and the countless other posts like it, would not be here."

Thats exactly my point, we didn't score, we didn't win to do that you have to actually get into the other teams half of the pitch and attack, something Walter doesnt seem to want to do !!

[JohnKnox 0]

The only reason we "threw" the season away was because the guys were so tired and we do not have the depth required to prevent that from happening under a massive accumulation of games. We were leading the league of almost the entire season with this so called inferior football and the only reason we lost because for once we were actually doing well in Europe. We won our first silverware in years and brought the season to the last day which is remarkable considering how far behind we were in the last two seasons.

And the lack of investment from the previous years and the depth of quality in the pool of players we had last season <_<

[brissyger 8]

I can honestly say that our current style of football has NOT improved in anyway since the days of LeGuen. In my opinion under Walter our football has actually got worse and I will guarantee that not one person on this forum can honestly challenge this statement.

Oh but they can.

However, Le Guen made a poor start to his Ibrox career. His record across his first ten league games was the worst start to a season by an Old Firm debutant since John Greig's team won only two, drew six and lost two of their opening ten games in 1978-79.[5]

On 8 November, Rangers were knocked out of the CIS Insurance Cup at the quarter-final stage by First Division side St. Johnstone. The result, the first time Rangers had been knocked out of a cup tournament by a lower league side at home,[6][7] prompted protests outside Ibrox and demands for the situation to improve and David Murray to leave the club.

What are you basing this on? That we didn't play the 'beautiful' football that Messi and Theirry Henry do?

We were shocking under Le Guen at points, we may have attacked more but we were what, 4th/5th at one point in the league?

FFS, yes we lost out in the UEFA CUP final, but we made it to it, we beat off teams who were arguably stronger and better than us. And scored goals in the mean time as well.

We may have defended but the other teams were not good enough to break us down, thats what made us the better team on the day, and the better team to go through.

Damn, people were crying out for a manager like Walter and were surprised when he and Ally took the job back from PLG. Now we have him, its bitching and moaning.

This year we have shown great team spirit (give or take the last few weeks where the team just look knackered and dead on their feet) and Walter and Ally are the ones to make Rangers better again.

I can't see many managers out there who would be able to teach the team more about team spirit and what it is to play for rangers than Walter Smith and Ally Mccoist.

A system that yes, may have taken us to Manchester, however its a system that has won us NOTHING this season.

Apart from the league cup and the scottish cup, a cup which once was seen as the biggest thing ever, we wanted it so bad.

TWO games stood between us and a QUAD. Now i bet you had we of won in that Uefa Cup Final had we of scored a goal then defended like shit, and won, and that final day had gone the other way..

This thread and the countless other posts like it, would not be here.

(Of course there would be some, there always is, but granted not as many.)

If memory serves me corectly but wasnt it a 4-4-2 tactic that we used in both these tournaments? We used the negative 4-5-1 tactic in Europe and for a large portion of the SPL season, two competitons that we FAILED to win. We did try the 4-5-1 in the final of the CIS cup, however it had to be changed quickly as we almost lost that game as well. Had it not been for a change of tactics which allowed Boyd to come into the game we could have quite easily been sitting here with only one trophy in the cabinet.

As for my comments about our style of football, they are based upon the fact that we can't pass, we can't attack, we can't keep possesion properly and in the majority of our games this season (Europe especially) we have allowed teams to dominate us. Since Walter has taken over can you honestly say that our football on the park has progressed? You can't can you ?

"TWO games stood between us and a QUAD. Now i bet you had we of won in that Uefa Cup Final had we of scored a goal then defended like shit, and won, and that final day had gone the other way..

This thread and the countless other posts like it, would not be here."

Thats exactly my point, we didn't score, we didn't win to do that you have to actually get into the other teams half of the pitch and attack, something Walter doesnt seem to want to do !!

If we played the attacking football you suggest in Europe with the kind of players we can attract then we would have been torn apart much earlier. There's just no satisfying some people. We got success because of that style, with an attacking style we would have had just another season of failure in Europe.

[brissyger 8]

The only reason we "threw" the season away was because the guys were so tired and we do not have the depth required to prevent that from happening under a massive accumulation of games. We were leading the league of almost the entire season with this so called inferior football and the only reason we lost because for once we were actually doing well in Europe. We won our first silverware in years and brought the season to the last day which is remarkable considering how far behind we were in the last two seasons.

And the lack of investment from the previous years and the depth of quality in the pool of players we had last season <_<

Exactly. This was never meant to be anything more than a rebuilding season and we still managed to walk out CIS and Scottish Cup winners and a hairs length away from a quad. I think it is a remarkable turn around in a year. I agree we need to invest further and continue to improve the team but I think we should give credit where it is due.

[port_bear 86]

was KT not signed by smith??

walter sees this team every day training and play football he will know what we need weither there quality or not in our eyes he obviously sees this players doing a job for us and suit the way we will play I just hope he is right as he was with cuellar and co,

he has a great eye for talent just think of the players we did not know much about he has and will still continue to bring to the club we wont agree with all the signings but sometimes a player just does not cut it for rangers or the spl but had a good background for example, tore andre flo, emerson

I am sure who he signs will be coming to do a jod week in week out and ill support the gers always!!

I might not back a signing he has made but I wont boo him or the player I just wont support that player for example cousin.

that is my opinion anyways but walter has done allot for us and sometimes I do find it hard to critise him for what he has done to the club in the past and last season three finals last day of the season cant get much closer than that.

"was KT not signed by smith??"

I will accept that Thomson has been a decent player for us and he should have been included on my list.

"I do find it hard to critise him for what he has done to the club in the past and last season three finals last day of the season cant get much closer than that"

Ok here is a question for you....

If you find it difficult to critisise Smith because of what he might have done in the past, would you still feel the same way in say 2 seasons if we still havent retained the title with Celtic winning say 5 in a row ?

Forget what the guy has in the past, its what he will do for us NOW that i'm worried about and from what I am seeing so far I just dont think the guy can take us any further !

[minstral 5,375]

I can honestly say that our current style of football has NOT improved in anyway since the days of LeGuen. In my opinion under Walter our football has actually got worse and I will guarantee that not one person on this forum can honestly challenge this statement.

Oh but they can.

However, Le Guen made a poor start to his Ibrox career. His record across his first ten league games was the worst start to a season by an Old Firm debutant since John Greig's team won only two, drew six and lost two of their opening ten games in 1978-79.[5]

On 8 November, Rangers were knocked out of the CIS Insurance Cup at the quarter-final stage by First Division side St. Johnstone. The result, the first time Rangers had been knocked out of a cup tournament by a lower league side at home,[6][7] prompted protests outside Ibrox and demands for the situation to improve and David Murray to leave the club.

What are you basing this on? That we didn't play the 'beautiful' football that Messi and Theirry Henry do?

We were shocking under Le Guen at points, we may have attacked more but we were what, 4th/5th at one point in the league?

FFS, yes we lost out in the UEFA CUP final, but we made it to it, we beat off teams who were arguably stronger and better than us. And scored goals in the mean time as well.

We may have defended but the other teams were not good enough to break us down, thats what made us the better team on the day, and the better team to go through.

Damn, people were crying out for a manager like Walter and were surprised when he and Ally took the job back from PLG. Now we have him, its bitching and moaning.

This year we have shown great team spirit (give or take the last few weeks where the team just look knackered and dead on their feet) and Walter and Ally are the ones to make Rangers better again.

I can't see many managers out there who would be able to teach the team more about team spirit and what it is to play for rangers than Walter Smith and Ally Mccoist.

A system that yes, may have taken us to Manchester, however its a system that has won us NOTHING this season.

Apart from the league cup and the scottish cup, a cup which once was seen as the biggest thing ever, we wanted it so bad.

TWO games stood between us and a QUAD. Now i bet you had we of won in that Uefa Cup Final had we of scored a goal then defended like shit, and won, and that final day had gone the other way..

This thread and the countless other posts like it, would not be here.

(Of course there would be some, there always is, but granted not as many.)

If memory serves me corectly but wasnt it a 4-4-2 tactic that we used in both these tournaments? We used the negative 4-5-1 tactic in Europe and for a large portion of the SPL season, two competitons that we FAILED to win. We did try the 4-5-1 in the final of the CIS cup, however it had to be changed quickly as we almost lost that game as well. Had it not been for a change of tactics which allowed Boyd to come into the game we could have quite easily been sitting here with only one trophy in the cabinet.

As for my comments about our style of football, they are based upon the fact that we can't pass, we can't attack, we can't keep possesion properly and in the majority of our games this season (Europe especially) we have allowed teams to dominate us. Since Walter has taken over can you honestly say that our football on the park has progressed? You can't can you ?

"TWO games stood between us and a QUAD. Now i bet you had we of won in that Uefa Cup Final had we of scored a goal then defended like shit, and won, and that final day had gone the other way..

This thread and the countless other posts like it, would not be here."

Thats exactly my point, we didn't score, we didn't win to do that you have to actually get into the other teams half of the pitch and attack, something Walter doesnt seem to want to do !!

If we played the attacking football you suggest in Europe with the kind of players we can attract then we would have been torn apart much earlier. There's just no satisfying some people. We got success because of that style, with an attacking style we would have had just another season of failure in Europe.

then why did walter sign players that could not do a job for him.

[port_bear 86]

I can honestly say that our current style of football has NOT improved in anyway since the days of LeGuen. In my opinion under Walter our football has actually got worse and I will guarantee that not one person on this forum can honestly challenge this statement.

Oh but they can.

However, Le Guen made a poor start to his Ibrox career. His record across his first ten league games was the worst start to a season by an Old Firm debutant since John Greig's team won only two, drew six and lost two of their opening ten games in 1978-79.[5]

On 8 November, Rangers were knocked out of the CIS Insurance Cup at the quarter-final stage by First Division side St. Johnstone. The result, the first time Rangers had been knocked out of a cup tournament by a lower league side at home,[6][7] prompted protests outside Ibrox and demands for the situation to improve and David Murray to leave the club.

What are you basing this on? That we didn't play the 'beautiful' football that Messi and Theirry Henry do?

We were shocking under Le Guen at points, we may have attacked more but we were what, 4th/5th at one point in the league?

FFS, yes we lost out in the UEFA CUP final, but we made it to it, we beat off teams who were arguably stronger and better than us. And scored goals in the mean time as well.

We may have defended but the other teams were not good enough to break us down, thats what made us the better team on the day, and the better team to go through.

Damn, people were crying out for a manager like Walter and were surprised when he and Ally took the job back from PLG. Now we have him, its bitching and moaning.

This year we have shown great team spirit (give or take the last few weeks where the team just look knackered and dead on their feet) and Walter and Ally are the ones to make Rangers better again.

I can't see many managers out there who would be able to teach the team more about team spirit and what it is to play for rangers than Walter Smith and Ally Mccoist.

A system that yes, may have taken us to Manchester, however its a system that has won us NOTHING this season.

Apart from the league cup and the scottish cup, a cup which once was seen as the biggest thing ever, we wanted it so bad.

TWO games stood between us and a QUAD. Now i bet you had we of won in that Uefa Cup Final had we of scored a goal then defended like shit, and won, and that final day had gone the other way..

This thread and the countless other posts like it, would not be here.

(Of course there would be some, there always is, but granted not as many.)

If memory serves me corectly but wasnt it a 4-4-2 tactic that we used in both these tournaments? We used the negative 4-5-1 tactic in Europe and for a large portion of the SPL season, two competitons that we FAILED to win. We did try the 4-5-1 in the final of the CIS cup, however it had to be changed quickly as we almost lost that game as well. Had it not been for a change of tactics which allowed Boyd to come into the game we could have quite easily been sitting here with only one trophy in the cabinet.

As for my comments about our style of football, they are based upon the fact that we can't pass, we can't attack, we can't keep possesion properly and in the majority of our games this season (Europe especially) we have allowed teams to dominate us. Since Walter has taken over can you honestly say that our football on the park has progressed? You can't can you ?

"TWO games stood between us and a QUAD. Now i bet you had we of won in that Uefa Cup Final had we of scored a goal then defended like shit, and won, and that final day had gone the other way..

This thread and the countless other posts like it, would not be here."

Thats exactly my point, we didn't score, we didn't win to do that you have to actually get into the other teams half of the pitch and attack, something Walter doesnt seem to want to do !!

If we played the attacking football you suggest in Europe with the kind of players we can attract then we would have been torn apart much earlier. There's just no satisfying some people. We got success because of that style, with an attacking style we would have had just another season of failure in Europe.

Yes we got sucess from the negative style of football and I will agree that had we attacked teams in the earlier rounds we may have been eliminated earlier. However what I was saying was that when we got to the Final we no longer had to the opportunity to win on away goals and should have played a more attacking game. Our performance in the final was nothing more than pathetic and gutless.

[brissyger 8]

I can honestly say that our current style of football has NOT improved in anyway since the days of LeGuen. In my opinion under Walter our football has actually got worse and I will guarantee that not one person on this forum can honestly challenge this statement.

Oh but they can.

However, Le Guen made a poor start to his Ibrox career. His record across his first ten league games was the worst start to a season by an Old Firm debutant since John Greig's team won only two, drew six and lost two of their opening ten games in 1978-79.[5]

On 8 November, Rangers were knocked out of the CIS Insurance Cup at the quarter-final stage by First Division side St. Johnstone. The result, the first time Rangers had been knocked out of a cup tournament by a lower league side at home,[6][7] prompted protests outside Ibrox and demands for the situation to improve and David Murray to leave the club.

What are you basing this on? That we didn't play the 'beautiful' football that Messi and Theirry Henry do?

We were shocking under Le Guen at points, we may have attacked more but we were what, 4th/5th at one point in the league?

FFS, yes we lost out in the UEFA CUP final, but we made it to it, we beat off teams who were arguably stronger and better than us. And scored goals in the mean time as well.

We may have defended but the other teams were not good enough to break us down, thats what made us the better team on the day, and the better team to go through.

Damn, people were crying out for a manager like Walter and were surprised when he and Ally took the job back from PLG. Now we have him, its bitching and moaning.

This year we have shown great team spirit (give or take the last few weeks where the team just look knackered and dead on their feet) and Walter and Ally are the ones to make Rangers better again.

I can't see many managers out there who would be able to teach the team more about team spirit and what it is to play for rangers than Walter Smith and Ally Mccoist.

A system that yes, may have taken us to Manchester, however its a system that has won us NOTHING this season.

Apart from the league cup and the scottish cup, a cup which once was seen as the biggest thing ever, we wanted it so bad.

TWO games stood between us and a QUAD. Now i bet you had we of won in that Uefa Cup Final had we of scored a goal then defended like shit, and won, and that final day had gone the other way..

This thread and the countless other posts like it, would not be here.

(Of course there would be some, there always is, but granted not as many.)

If memory serves me corectly but wasnt it a 4-4-2 tactic that we used in both these tournaments? We used the negative 4-5-1 tactic in Europe and for a large portion of the SPL season, two competitons that we FAILED to win. We did try the 4-5-1 in the final of the CIS cup, however it had to be changed quickly as we almost lost that game as well. Had it not been for a change of tactics which allowed Boyd to come into the game we could have quite easily been sitting here with only one trophy in the cabinet.

As for my comments about our style of football, they are based upon the fact that we can't pass, we can't attack, we can't keep possesion properly and in the majority of our games this season (Europe especially) we have allowed teams to dominate us. Since Walter has taken over can you honestly say that our football on the park has progressed? You can't can you ?

"TWO games stood between us and a QUAD. Now i bet you had we of won in that Uefa Cup Final had we of scored a goal then defended like shit, and won, and that final day had gone the other way..

This thread and the countless other posts like it, would not be here."

Thats exactly my point, we didn't score, we didn't win to do that you have to actually get into the other teams half of the pitch and attack, something Walter doesnt seem to want to do !!

If we played the attacking football you suggest in Europe with the kind of players we can attract then we would have been torn apart much earlier. There's just no satisfying some people. We got success because of that style, with an attacking style we would have had just another season of failure in Europe.

then why did walter sign players that could not do a job for him.

Well their job this season was to at least get us in the running for the title again after two years of dismal failure and they did more than that.

[papaguy51 912]

Our performance in the final was a joke.

I'm sure Walter will live with the regret of going so defensive in a one off game for the rest of his life mind you.

[MrT 173]

was KT not signed by smith??

walter sees this team every day training and play football he will know what we need weither there quality or not in our eyes he obviously sees this players doing a job for us and suit the way we will play I just hope he is right as he was with cuellar and co,

he has a great eye for talent just think of the players we did not know much about he has and will still continue to bring to the club we wont agree with all the signings but sometimes a player just does not cut it for rangers or the spl but had a good background for example, tore andre flo, emerson

I am sure who he signs will be coming to do a jod week in week out and ill support the gers always!!

I might not back a signing he has made but I wont boo him or the player I just wont support that player for example cousin.

that is my opinion anyways but walter has done allot for us and sometimes I do find it hard to critise him for what he has done to the club in the past and last season three finals last day of the season cant get much closer than that.

"was KT not signed by smith??"

I will accept that Thomson has been a decent player for us and he should have been included on my list.

"I do find it hard to critise him for what he has done to the club in the past and last season three finals last day of the season cant get much closer than that"

Ok here is a question for you....

If you find it difficult to critisise Smith because of what he might have done in the past, would you still feel the same way in say 2 seasons if we still havent retained the title with Celtic winning say 5 in a row ?

Forget what the guy has in the past, its what he will do for us NOW that i'm worried about and from what I am seeing so far I just dont think the guy can take us any further !

I am not saying I wont if this be the case all I am saying is I have bags of respect for him and sometimes this does over rule the decisions he makes from time to time! but there has been the odd occasion I have pointed the finger at the neg tactics etc but its not often he is wrong and when he is he is very wrong in some fans eyes.

[jbm26896 995]

Our performance in the final was a joke.

I'm sure Walter will live with the regret of going so defensive in a one off game for the rest of his life mind you.

agreed , he had one shot at glory and decided to defend and go for penalties , our tactics made Zenit look better than they were

some say last year was about steadying the ship and this year we will see a better team - that statement will be way off target - when we sign miller

we have Noco and JCD who can do this role already

this is a big pre season for Walter , he needs to add quality - his first signing of kenny miller does not fit the word "quality"

[outlaw69uk 123]

fuck me, this is some thread... I can only be bothered to pick up a couple of points.

"style" compared to Le Guens side - No, not as pretty this year no, but, far more successful, so, I have to "challenge" your point on that. I would much rather win games than be pretty and flash and lose! Or would you prefer the likes of Svensson and Jrod back in defence?

Trophies - we got 2! You can piss and moan about Europe and the league, but, we have been embarrassing in Europe for years now, at least this time we made a final, rather than our usual out before xmas crap display, plus, a number of factors led to us losing the league. As I said 12 months ago, the priority was to win ANY trophy, and get back a bit of soilidity, which has been done.

"And the lack of investment from the previous years and the depth of quality in the pool of players we had last season " - This is Smiths fault how exactly??? This is the fault of previous regimes, and, as such, we had to spend on bulk, not quality, last summer so we had enough players, and try to make the best of it. Which, we did. Think about it, getting to a Euro final with players like Broadfoot & Dailly in the side? How can THAT not be an achievement?

"Selling Hutton cost us the league" - Granted, a fantastic player I am gutted we sold, however, its pure speculation. He could have been injured in the first game after the window ala Naisy or DMB and not played for the rest of the season, making it a moot point. Could easily say Burke being injured cost us the league, it carries as much weight.

"Negative tactics" - 1 up is the preference of the majority of successful clubs in Europe, the ONLY difference is we did not have the quality of wide players to make this work in a more effective manner. Man Utd have guys like Tevez and Ronaldo wide, which instantly turns it more attacking, whereas we had (due to injury a lot of the time), Davis and McCulloch... which wont/didnt work. A combination of any 2 from Burke, DMB, JCD, Novo, Naismith would have been far more effective and more attacking. So, not negative tactics, negative players. In defence, both our full backs were really centre backs, both our wingers were central midfielders. If we bring in guys like Palladino, Greening etc, all of a sudden this 1 up formation would look a lot more potent.

There is a reason the WS is held in very high regard in the football world, by players and fellow managers. Perhaps his "stubbornness" is down to the fact that he may well know best on most occasions. He may also have a plan that we dont know about. We can all have opinions, and, debate them, but, downright slagging as goes on regularily is just a bit sad. Regardless of the hurt we feel this season, the club was a fucking mess when he came back, and, now its on an even keel. Thats called progress. I havent been happy with the performances this season, and with a number of players, however, as I said last season, I am waiting until the end of AUGUST to see who comes, who goes, and, to see how we look pre-season before I become pissed off. Hopefully my faith will be rewarded by a touch of quality and a style of football far more pleasing on the eye. The first week in June is far too early to be suicidal about NEXT season lads

[bluepeter 5,627]

^^^^^^^^^

Spot on outlaw