Walter Smith

[Steely 58]

fuck me, this is some thread... I can only be bothered to pick up a couple of points.

"style" compared to Le Guens side - No, not as pretty this year no, but, far more successful, so, I have to "challenge" your point on that. I would much rather win games than be pretty and flash and lose! Or would you prefer the likes of Svensson and Jrod back in defence?

Trophies - we got 2! You can piss and moan about Europe and the league, but, we have been embarrassing in Europe for years now, at least this time we made a final, rather than our usual out before xmas crap display, plus, a number of factors led to us losing the league. As I said 12 months ago, the priority was to win ANY trophy, and get back a bit of soilidity, which has been done.

"And the lack of investment from the previous years and the depth of quality in the pool of players we had last season " - This is Smiths fault how exactly??? This is the fault of previous regimes, and, as such, we had to spend on bulk, not quality, last summer so we had enough players, and try to make the best of it. Which, we did. Think about it, getting to a Euro final with players like Broadfoot & Dailly in the side? How can THAT not be an achievement?

"Selling Hutton cost us the league" - Granted, a fantastic player I am gutted we sold, however, its pure speculation. He could have been injured in the first game after the window ala Naisy or DMB and not played for the rest of the season, making it a moot point. Could easily say Burke being injured cost us the league, it carries as much weight.

"Negative tactics" - 1 up is the preference of the majority of successful clubs in Europe, the ONLY difference is we did not have the quality of wide players to make this work in a more effective manner. Man Utd have guys like Tevez and Ronaldo wide, which instantly turns it more attacking, whereas we had (due to injury a lot of the time), Davis and McCulloch... which wont/didnt work. A combination of any 2 from Burke, DMB, JCD, Novo, Naismith would have been far more effective and more attacking. So, not negative tactics, negative players. In defence, both our full backs were really centre backs, both our wingers were central midfielders. If we bring in guys like Palladino, Greening etc, all of a sudden this 1 up formation would look a lot more potent.

There is a reason the WS is held in very high regard in the football world, by players and fellow managers. Perhaps his "stubbornness" is down to the fact that he may well know best on most occasions. He may also have a plan that we dont know about. We can all have opinions, and, debate them, but, downright slagging as goes on regularily is just a bit sad. Regardless of the hurt we feel this season, the club was a fucking mess when he came back, and, now its on an even keel. Thats called progress. I havent been happy with the performances this season, and with a number of players, however, as I said last season, I am waiting until the end of AUGUST to see who comes, who goes, and, to see how we look pre-season before I become pissed off. Hopefully my faith will be rewarded by a touch of quality and a style of football far more pleasing on the eye. The first week in June is far too early to be suicidal about NEXT season lads

Good points.

I will be looking to see who WS buys. I can see the players linked. But they are only that until they sign. There are some very good palyers in the list and if we get them all I will be a very happy bear.

Even if we only get half of them I will be happy.

I think people are looking at us buying Scottish talent and saying we can do better, only because it is Scottish.

I am quite happy to have the best of Scottish, after all we are a Scottish club so why not.

[outlaw69uk 123]

^^^^^^^^^

Spot on outlaw

Mate, its just common sense! but, thank you

[outlaw69uk 123]

fuck me, this is some thread... I can only be bothered to pick up a couple of points.

"style" compared to Le Guens side - No, not as pretty this year no, but, far more successful, so, I have to "challenge" your point on that. I would much rather win games than be pretty and flash and lose! Or would you prefer the likes of Svensson and Jrod back in defence?

Trophies - we got 2! You can piss and moan about Europe and the league, but, we have been embarrassing in Europe for years now, at least this time we made a final, rather than our usual out before xmas crap display, plus, a number of factors led to us losing the league. As I said 12 months ago, the priority was to win ANY trophy, and get back a bit of soilidity, which has been done.

"And the lack of investment from the previous years and the depth of quality in the pool of players we had last season " - This is Smiths fault how exactly??? This is the fault of previous regimes, and, as such, we had to spend on bulk, not quality, last summer so we had enough players, and try to make the best of it. Which, we did. Think about it, getting to a Euro final with players like Broadfoot & Dailly in the side? How can THAT not be an achievement?

"Selling Hutton cost us the league" - Granted, a fantastic player I am gutted we sold, however, its pure speculation. He could have been injured in the first game after the window ala Naisy or DMB and not played for the rest of the season, making it a moot point. Could easily say Burke being injured cost us the league, it carries as much weight.

"Negative tactics" - 1 up is the preference of the majority of successful clubs in Europe, the ONLY difference is we did not have the quality of wide players to make this work in a more effective manner. Man Utd have guys like Tevez and Ronaldo wide, which instantly turns it more attacking, whereas we had (due to injury a lot of the time), Davis and McCulloch... which wont/didnt work. A combination of any 2 from Burke, DMB, JCD, Novo, Naismith would have been far more effective and more attacking. So, not negative tactics, negative players. In defence, both our full backs were really centre backs, both our wingers were central midfielders. If we bring in guys like Palladino, Greening etc, all of a sudden this 1 up formation would look a lot more potent.

There is a reason the WS is held in very high regard in the football world, by players and fellow managers. Perhaps his "stubbornness" is down to the fact that he may well know best on most occasions. He may also have a plan that we dont know about. We can all have opinions, and, debate them, but, downright slagging as goes on regularily is just a bit sad. Regardless of the hurt we feel this season, the club was a fucking mess when he came back, and, now its on an even keel. Thats called progress. I havent been happy with the performances this season, and with a number of players, however, as I said last season, I am waiting until the end of AUGUST to see who comes, who goes, and, to see how we look pre-season before I become pissed off. Hopefully my faith will be rewarded by a touch of quality and a style of football far more pleasing on the eye. The first week in June is far too early to be suicidal about NEXT season lads

Good points.

I will be looking to see who WS buys. I can see the players linked. But they are only that until they sign. There are some very good palyers in the list and if we get them all I will be a very happy bear.

Even if we only get half of them I will be happy.

I think people are looking at us buying Scottish talent and saying we can do better, only because it is Scottish.

I am quite happy to have the best of Scottish, after all we are a Scottish club so why not.

Indeed. Plus we always sign players that nobody has linked us with, which is normally a nice surprise (Maniero aside haha).

Fifa also WILL get their quota plans in place, one way or another, so, with us having young Scots lads in place already, we are ahead of most other leagues, and, will put us back into the position we were in back in 93 when the English and Spanish sides really struggled with the 3 foreigner rule

[port_bear 86]

For Outlaw !!

"style, compared to Le Guens side - No, not as pretty this year no, but, far more successful"

Successful is not a word I would use to describe Walter's negative 4-5-1 formation, as I said in previous posts it did't win us anything as we played 4-4-2 in the Scottish and CIS cups. Yes the tactic may have got us a few decent results along the way but I put that down to pure luck and the fact that Cueller and McGregor were outstanding and NOT the tactic itself.

When I said in my original post that "our style of football hasnt improved", I meant that since Walter has taken over I have seen no improvement in the basics such as passing, ball controll and ball retention etc. I dont care if we dont look pretty but what I want to see is us "improving" and that hasnt happened under Walter, regardless of what he has "almost" acheived.

"Trophies - we got 2! You can piss and moan about Europe and the league, but, we have been embarrassing in Europe for years now, at least this time we made a final"

You used the word "embarrassing" to describe our previous efforts in Europe and rightly so, however that is exactly what we were in the final, embarrassing. Most teams throughout Europe would have said to themselves, we have made the final, a great achievement now lets try and win it. Then there is our attitude of thinking its ok not to even turn up in the final because we have exceeded our expectations by even getting there in the first place, it doesnt matter if we dont win.

Total nonsense as far as I'm concerned, the final should have been seen as a one of chance at glory, so what if we didnt win so long as we had a go and actually tried to win. Instead we just just turned up to make up the numbers, as you said Outalaw its embarrassing.

As i've said many times since Walter has taken over my one biggest fear was his negativity and his same old rigid tactics. It was this same negativity that in my opinion cost us 10 in a row and the same negativity that cost Walter his job at Everton. The fans down there started to lose patience with him after seeing no real progress and the same boring, backs to the wall football for soo long.

If you had said to me at the start of the season that we would take Celtic to the final day and only just lose out on the title, reach the Uefa cup final and win both domestic trophies I would have said you were crazy.

However.....

If you had said to me at the start of the season that we would "throw away" such a massive lead and lose the title on the final day to what is a mediocre Celtic side. Reach the Uefa Cup final by playing the most boring, negative football you will ever watch, carry huge amounts of luck and then not even bother to turn up for the final. Win two domestic trophies the hard way and almost losing to teams such as StJohnstone, QOS and Dundee Utd, I would have said I wouldnt want such a season.

Its all about perspective and how you look at something and when you look at the first scenario everything looks great, a sucessful enough season. However when you look at the second scenario it shows nothing more than another wasted season with Celtic celebrating 3 in a row !!

[outlaw69uk 123]

For Outlaw !!

"style, compared to Le Guens side - No, not as pretty this year no, but, far more successful"

Successful is not a word I would use to describe Walter's negative 4-5-1 formation, as I said in previous posts it did't win us anything as we played 4-4-2 in the Scottish and CIS cups. Yes the tactic may have got us a few decent results along the way but I put that down to pure luck and the fact that Cueller and McGregor were outstanding and NOT the tactic itself.

When I said in my original post that "our style of football hasnt improved", I meant that since Walter has taken over I have seen no improvement in the basics such as passing, ball controll and ball retention etc. I dont care if we dont look pretty but what I want to see is us "improving" and that hasnt happened under Walter, regardless of what he has "almost" acheived.

"Trophies - we got 2! You can piss and moan about Europe and the league, but, we have been embarrassing in Europe for years now, at least this time we made a final"

You used the word "embarrassing" to describe our previous efforts in Europe and rightly so, however that is exactly what we were in the final, embarrassing. Most teams throughout Europe would have said to themselves, we have made the final, a great achievement now lets try and win it. Then there is our attitude of thinking its ok not to even turn up in the final because we have exceeded our expectations by even getting there in the first place, it doesnt matter if we dont win.

Total nonsense as far as I'm concerned, the final should have been seen as a one of chance at glory, so what if we didnt win so long as we had a go and actually tried to win. Instead we just just turned up to make up the numbers, as you said Outalaw its embarrassing.

As i've said many times since Walter has taken over my one biggest fear was his negativity and his same old rigid tactics. It was this same negativity that in my opinion cost us 10 in a row and the same negativity that cost Walter his job at Everton. The fans down there started to lose patience with him after seeing no real progress and the same boring, backs to the wall football for soo long.

If you had said to me at the start of the season that we would take Celtic to the final day and only just lose out on the title, reach the Uefa cup final and win both domestic trophies I would have said you were crazy.

However.....

If you had said to me at the start of the season that we would "throw away" such a massive lead and lose the title on the final day to what is a mediocre Celtic side. Reach the Uefa Cup final by playing the most boring, negative football you will ever watch, carry huge amounts of luck and then not even bother to turn up for the final. Win two domestic trophies the hard way and almost losing to teams such as StJohnstone, QOS and Dundee Utd, I would have said I wouldnt want such a season.

Its all about perspective and how you look at something and when you look at the first scenario everything looks great, a sucessful enough season. However when you look at the second scenario it shows nothing more than another wasted season with Celtic celebrating 3 in a row !!

Indeed perspective, however, your take on it appears to be based solely on the outcome. If we had nicked a goal in the Uefa final, would you still be posting like this? Same with the league? One goal in the motherwell game would have changed it.

You also mention the same negative rigid tactics, but, at the same time, state we didnt use them in all the games (which is true but kinda makes the initial point moot)

Ridiculous amount of games this season, mainly in a short space of time, and, we even have people like the celtic captain saying our players were fucked. I think that has something to do with the performances at the end. I think, basically, with the players at our disposal, we did ok. This was always going to be a transitional season, where we had to win something, anything! which we did, so, it gets a pass, nothing more. The Euro run, with our squad, was immense, regardless of performances.

We won a couple of cups, and, are in a good position going forward, so, last season is done, am looking forward to the new, where, all the noises have been that we are to be adding creativity to the side

[BoltonLoyal 2]

I've discussed this subject before with you i think PB, i agree we played crap football but it was successful on the whole.

WS was brought in to try and repair the abortion that was left when PLG had virtually destroyed the morale and respect of the first team.

He did that job and a helluva lot more besides, i'm not going to go into the more salient points other bears have already made, but this season has been an improvement on the previous season trophy-wise, we have uncovered an absolute diamond of a centre-half and have at the very least brought ourselves some parity with the unwashed.

I understand completely your frustration at the style of football being served up under Walter, but we have to see what happens next year.

Personally i'd settle for another year of the garbage served up on the pitch if we end up going for the quad again next season, but that's just me.

I will say this though, i want the SPL trophy next season above anything, it is paramount we stop the rot regarding the title and shut those horrible smelly tramps up. Septic need bringing to heel, i don't give a shite how WS does it, as long as he does.

[mannan 0]

GREAT THREAD!

i for another am sick of this blind faith in smith, so far he has delivered little, the teams we had to beat on the on the road to the scottish cup final were piss poor, ffs the only premierleague team we played was hibs and even then it took a replay.......

the uefa cup was a great run, but lucky as we will EVER get, can you honestly see us doing that again against all those sides and offering so little, how many saves did mcgregor have to make or last ditch tackles our centre halfs, a pure fluke!

the final was an embarrasment as far as im concerned! guttless is the word! smith as his same ole game plan

the guy has NO plan B and i am totally sick of his negativity

and the season has barely finished and a good percentage of fans are talkin about givin up their season tickets because of the signing policy ie miller

smith will NEVER take this club forward, hes proven away from ibrox that he hasnt got the tactical awareness and as far as im concerned he left ibrox a legend, but has came back to leave as a man who turned a MAJOR section on the fans against him

[JohnKnox 0]

GREAT THREAD!

i for another am sick of this blind faith in smith, so far he has delivered little, the teams we had to beat on the on the road to the scottish cup final were piss poor, ffs the only premierleague team we played was hibs and even then it took a replay.......

the uefa cup was a great run, but lucky as we will EVER get, can you honestly see us doing that again against all those sides and offering so little, how many saves did mcgregor have to make or last ditch tackles our centre halfs, a pure fluke!

the final was an embarrasment as far as im concerned! guttless is the word! smith as his same ole game plan

the guy has NO plan B and i am totally sick of his negativity

and the season has barely finished and a good percentage of fans are talkin about givin up their season tickets because of the signing policy ie miller

smith will NEVER take this club forward, hes proven away from ibrox that he hasnt got the tactical awareness and as far as im concerned he left ibrox a legend, but has came back to leave as a man who turned a MAJOR section on the fans against him

Scotland fans liked him

[WATP52 0]

GREAT THREAD!

i for another am sick of this blind faith in smith, so far he has delivered little, the teams we had to beat on the on the road to the scottish cup final were piss poor, ffs the only premierleague team we played was hibs and even then it took a replay.......

the uefa cup was a great run, but lucky as we will EVER get, can you honestly see us doing that again against all those sides and offering so little, how many saves did mcgregor have to make or last ditch tackles our centre halfs, a pure fluke!

the final was an embarrasment as far as im concerned! guttless is the word! smith as his same ole game plan

the guy has NO plan B and i am totally sick of his negativity

and the season has barely finished and a good percentage of fans are talkin about givin up their season tickets because of the signing policy ie miller

smith will NEVER take this club forward, hes proven away from ibrox that he hasnt got the tactical awareness and as far as im concerned he left ibrox a legend, but has came back to leave as a man who turned a MAJOR section on the fans against him

Scotland fans liked him

The guy got us to our first European final in 36 years just last month. Give him a break FFS

[cooper1989 0]

Very good post. I am a massive Walter supporter. Always have been, always will be. He is the kind of MAN a team requires. A team in trouble that is. He can instill fear -- a good thing -- discipline, resilience, determination and a will to not get beat. Not many managers on this planet have those attributes. Our Walter does.

That said... he has done the best he could do with what he had. And that was the UEFA Cup final. Not bad for a 'sh1te' manager? But... he has earned the right to manage next season... But.. if Miller comes and fails, it will be a difficult time ahead for WS. There is no compelling evidence that remotely suggests that Miller will be successful. So, in this case, WS is taking a huge risk.

BUT.. if Miller does succeed, WS will be a genius -- imagine.. KM setting up Boyd for +40 goals next year?

[Briton 394]

You can piss and moan about Europe and the league, but, we have been embarrassing in Europe for years now, at least this time we made a final, rather than our usual out before xmas crap display

Short term we haven't done bad. This is the third season in a row that we've had a pretty decent run in Europe.

[nvager 498]

Walter has MORE than earned the right to manage RFC. His record is magnificent. 9 in a row + now a UEFA Cup final appearance.

The drawback is that he had to buy a whole team last year and the football was dire to watch most of the time. He managed the season through playing to his strengths which meant defensive tactics and one up front, but he may have overdone it.

Some of his players he played were just not good enough or inconsistent or out of position - Broadfoot, Adam, Whittaker, McCulloch, Davis, Daily, Faye, Burke and others were injured. Naismith and DMB.

We lacked width and any kind of guile or flair.

He sold Hutton in mid season too.

As a result it was obvious we need again many replacements. The K Miller thing and M Reynolds bid does not suggest we are after the kind of class needed.

We are all now VERY nervous and until it is clear we ARE looking to bring in class and not sell Cuellar and McGregor we will remain on tender hooks.

A lot of interesting times ahead.

[the bears ba's 1]

Walter has MORE than earned the right to manage RFC. His record is magnificent. 9 in a row + now a UEFA Cup final appearance.

The drawback is that he had to buy a whole team last year and the football was dire to watch most of the time. He managed the season through playing to his strengths which meant defensive tactics and one up front, but he may have overdone it.

Some of his players he played were just not good enough or inconsistent or out of position - Broadfoot, Adam, Whittaker, McCulloch, Davis, Daily, Faye, Burke and others were injured. Naismith and DMB.

We lacked width and any kind of guile or flair.

He sold Hutton in mid season too.

As a result it was obvious we need again many replacements. The K Miller thing and M Reynolds bid does not suggest we are after the kind of class needed.

We are all now VERY nervous and until it is clear we ARE looking to bring in class and not sell Cuellar and McGregor we will remain on tender hooks.

A lot of interesting times ahead.

Excellent post on WS, interesting/nervous times ahead, indeed!!

[cooper1989 0]

fuck me, this is some thread... I can only be bothered to pick up a couple of points.

"style" compared to Le Guens side - No, not as pretty this year no, but, far more successful, so, I have to "challenge" your point on that. I would much rather win games than be pretty and flash and lose! Or would you prefer the likes of Svensson and Jrod back in defence?

Trophies - we got 2! You can piss and moan about Europe and the league, but, we have been embarrassing in Europe for years now, at least this time we made a final, rather than our usual out before xmas crap display, plus, a number of factors led to us losing the league. As I said 12 months ago, the priority was to win ANY trophy, and get back a bit of soilidity, which has been done.

"And the lack of investment from the previous years and the depth of quality in the pool of players we had last season " - This is Smiths fault how exactly??? This is the fault of previous regimes, and, as such, we had to spend on bulk, not quality, last summer so we had enough players, and try to make the best of it. Which, we did. Think about it, getting to a Euro final with players like Broadfoot & Dailly in the side? How can THAT not be an achievement?

"Selling Hutton cost us the league" - Granted, a fantastic player I am gutted we sold, however, its pure speculation. He could have been injured in the first game after the window ala Naisy or DMB and not played for the rest of the season, making it a moot point. Could easily say Burke being injured cost us the league, it carries as much weight.

"Negative tactics" - 1 up is the preference of the majority of successful clubs in Europe, the ONLY difference is we did not have the quality of wide players to make this work in a more effective manner. Man Utd have guys like Tevez and Ronaldo wide, which instantly turns it more attacking, whereas we had (due to injury a lot of the time), Davis and McCulloch... which wont/didnt work. A combination of any 2 from Burke, DMB, JCD, Novo, Naismith would have been far more effective and more attacking. So, not negative tactics, negative players. In defence, both our full backs were really centre backs, both our wingers were central midfielders. If we bring in guys like Palladino, Greening etc, all of a sudden this 1 up formation would look a lot more potent.

There is a reason the WS is held in very high regard in the football world, by players and fellow managers. Perhaps his "stubbornness" is down to the fact that he may well know best on most occasions. He may also have a plan that we dont know about. We can all have opinions, and, debate them, but, downright slagging as goes on regularily is just a bit sad. Regardless of the hurt we feel this season, the club was a fucking mess when he came back, and, now its on an even keel. Thats called progress. I havent been happy with the performances this season, and with a number of players, however, as I said last season, I am waiting until the end of AUGUST to see who comes, who goes, and, to see how we look pre-season before I become pissed off. Hopefully my faith will be rewarded by a touch of quality and a style of football far more pleasing on the eye. The first week in June is far too early to be suicidal about NEXT season lads

OUTLAW -- this is, by some margin, the best post on this subject ever. (Perhaps because I agree with all your points?) lol

But seriously, you have articulated the facts as well as anyone on this planet has ever done. You indeed made me think .. when you said ...

"Think about it, getting to a Euro final with players like Broadfoot & Dailly in the side? How can THAT not be an achievement?"

That my friend... says it all about WS.

Well said m8.

[Wreckedroy 33]

fuck me, this is some thread... I can only be bothered to pick up a couple of points.

"style" compared to Le Guens side - No, not as pretty this year no, but, far more successful, so, I have to "challenge" your point on that. I would much rather win games than be pretty and flash and lose! Or would you prefer the likes of Svensson and Jrod back in defence?

Trophies - we got 2! You can piss and moan about Europe and the league, but, we have been embarrassing in Europe for years now, at least this time we made a final, rather than our usual out before xmas crap display, plus, a number of factors led to us losing the league. As I said 12 months ago, the priority was to win ANY trophy, and get back a bit of soilidity, which has been done.

"And the lack of investment from the previous years and the depth of quality in the pool of players we had last season " - This is Smiths fault how exactly??? This is the fault of previous regimes, and, as such, we had to spend on bulk, not quality, last summer so we had enough players, and try to make the best of it. Which, we did. Think about it, getting to a Euro final with players like Broadfoot & Dailly in the side? How can THAT not be an achievement?

"Selling Hutton cost us the league" - Granted, a fantastic player I am gutted we sold, however, its pure speculation. He could have been injured in the first game after the window ala Naisy or DMB and not played for the rest of the season, making it a moot point. Could easily say Burke being injured cost us the league, it carries as much weight.

"Negative tactics" - 1 up is the preference of the majority of successful clubs in Europe, the ONLY difference is we did not have the quality of wide players to make this work in a more effective manner. Man Utd have guys like Tevez and Ronaldo wide, which instantly turns it more attacking, whereas we had (due to injury a lot of the time), Davis and McCulloch... which wont/didnt work. A combination of any 2 from Burke, DMB, JCD, Novo, Naismith would have been far more effective and more attacking. So, not negative tactics, negative players. In defence, both our full backs were really centre backs, both our wingers were central midfielders. If we bring in guys like Palladino, Greening etc, all of a sudden this 1 up formation would look a lot more potent.

There is a reason the WS is held in very high regard in the football world, by players and fellow managers. Perhaps his "stubbornness" is down to the fact that he may well know best on most occasions. He may also have a plan that we dont know about. We can all have opinions, and, debate them, but, downright slagging as goes on regularily is just a bit sad. Regardless of the hurt we feel this season, the club was a fucking mess when he came back, and, now its on an even keel. Thats called progress. I havent been happy with the performances this season, and with a number of players, however, as I said last season, I am waiting until the end of AUGUST to see who comes, who goes, and, to see how we look pre-season before I become pissed off. Hopefully my faith will be rewarded by a touch of quality and a style of football far more pleasing on the eye. The first week in June is far too early to be suicidal about NEXT season lads

Common sense at last!

Anyone who is "running out of faith in Walter" had very little real faith in him to start with. What would have happened to Alex Ferguson at Man Utd if this short-termist view had been taken of his 1st season there? Or even his 2nd, 3rd or 4th?

Walter Smith has pulled this club up from the depths in double-quick time, from the mess left after the Le Guen experiment to the UEFA Cup final in not much more than a year. I struggle to believe the unrealistic ambitions of some of our supporters. A team cannot be rebuilt in 1 season, and the job won't be complete after 2 or even 3. The glory-hunters can squeal all they like, it won't make it happen any quicker!

Time for some realism.

[staceym 7]

I have been reading through a lot of posts on the forum (the transfer ones especially) and I keep reading the same comments of "Walter knows best" and "In Walter we trust" etc. etc. Some people seem to think that just because he is the manager he is exempt from criticism and by using these comments they can win any argument against anyone who questions Walters judgement.

Well I have to disagree with both these statements as I am very quickly losing all faith in Walter and to say "he knows best" is something I am seriously beginning to question (I doubt I'm alone on this one).

For a start his transfers since he took have been mediocre to say the least with only Cueller, Davis and Weir showing any signs of passing the grade. Thats only 3 players from more than 14 or more that he has brought to the club since he took over. Only 3 players that can be called a successful buy and for me that statistic just isnt good enough, not when you consider he has spent more than �10m.

Then there is his tactics, his negativity and his stubbornness this season to continue to play the same tired, old and out of form players just to accommodate his negative system. It was this negativity, stubbornness and failure to rotate and properly utilise the full potential of his squad that evidently cost us TWO major titles and almost destroyed our season.

Some people will be happy with our season, they will be happy at taking Celtic to the final day, they will be happy to reach a major European final and they will be happy to win two trophies. However what the point of reaching a European final, only to turn up and play for a 0-0 draw? Our tactics and performance in Manchester was nothing short of gutless and pathetic, I mean to reach a major final and to only muster 3 shots on target is a disgrace.

I can honestly say that our current style of football has NOT improved in anyway since the days of LeGuen. In my opinion under Walter our football has actually got worse and I will guarantee that not one person on this forum can honestly challenge this statement.

We are now entering into a new season, a new transfer window and the promise of big name, quality players is starting to seem like another lie, just another smokescreen to sell season tickets. In the past week alone we have been linked with players such as Marlon Harewood, Jonathan Greening, Danny Shittu and Shaun Maloney. Where exactly is this quality that we have been promised?, where are the players that are going to build on the mediocre foundations that Walter has built and take us to the next level?

Now with the immanent arrival of Kenny Miller and todays news that we have made a �1m bid for Marc Reynolds, further emphasises my fears that under Walter the style of football for the foreseeable future will continue to be negative. In my opinion to sign a player like Miller just proves that Walter will continue to play the same, negative, boring, failing 4-5-1 system again next season. A system that yes, may have taken us to Manchester, however its a system that has won us NOTHING this season.

Spot on post i agree with every word.

[McBoyd 355]

Colin Stein: "Rangers are 300 per cent better than the debacle Paul Le Guen left. All credit to Walter and his backroom staff.

[port_bear 86]

For Outlaw !!

"style, compared to Le Guens side - No, not as pretty this year no, but, far more successful"

Successful is not a word I would use to describe Walter's negative 4-5-1 formation, as I said in previous posts it did't win us anything as we played 4-4-2 in the Scottish and CIS cups. Yes the tactic may have got us a few decent results along the way but I put that down to pure luck and the fact that Cueller and McGregor were outstanding and NOT the tactic itself.

When I said in my original post that "our style of football hasnt improved", I meant that since Walter has taken over I have seen no improvement in the basics such as passing, ball controll and ball retention etc. I dont care if we dont look pretty but what I want to see is us "improving" and that hasnt happened under Walter, regardless of what he has "almost" acheived.

"Trophies - we got 2! You can piss and moan about Europe and the league, but, we have been embarrassing in Europe for years now, at least this time we made a final"

You used the word "embarrassing" to describe our previous efforts in Europe and rightly so, however that is exactly what we were in the final, embarrassing. Most teams throughout Europe would have said to themselves, we have made the final, a great achievement now lets try and win it. Then there is our attitude of thinking its ok not to even turn up in the final because we have exceeded our expectations by even getting there in the first place, it doesnt matter if we dont win.

Total nonsense as far as I'm concerned, the final should have been seen as a one of chance at glory, so what if we didnt win so long as we had a go and actually tried to win. Instead we just just turned up to make up the numbers, as you said Outalaw its embarrassing.

As i've said many times since Walter has taken over my one biggest fear was his negativity and his same old rigid tactics. It was this same negativity that in my opinion cost us 10 in a row and the same negativity that cost Walter his job at Everton. The fans down there started to lose patience with him after seeing no real progress and the same boring, backs to the wall football for soo long.

If you had said to me at the start of the season that we would take Celtic to the final day and only just lose out on the title, reach the Uefa cup final and win both domestic trophies I would have said you were crazy.

However.....

If you had said to me at the start of the season that we would "throw away" such a massive lead and lose the title on the final day to what is a mediocre Celtic side. Reach the Uefa Cup final by playing the most boring, negative football you will ever watch, carry huge amounts of luck and then not even bother to turn up for the final. Win two domestic trophies the hard way and almost losing to teams such as StJohnstone, QOS and Dundee Utd, I would have said I wouldnt want such a season.

Its all about perspective and how you look at something and when you look at the first scenario everything looks great, a sucessful enough season. However when you look at the second scenario it shows nothing more than another wasted season with Celtic celebrating 3 in a row !!

Indeed perspective, however, your take on it appears to be based solely on the outcome. If we had nicked a goal in the Uefa final, would you still be posting like this? Same with the league? One goal in the motherwell game would have changed it.

You also mention the same negative rigid tactics, but, at the same time, state we didnt use them in all the games (which is true but kinda makes the initial point moot)

Ridiculous amount of games this season, mainly in a short space of time, and, we even have people like the celtic captain saying our players were fucked. I think that has something to do with the performances at the end. I think, basically, with the players at our disposal, we did ok. This was always going to be a transitional season, where we had to win something, anything! which we did, so, it gets a pass, nothing more. The Euro run, with our squad, was immense, regardless of performances.

We won a couple of cups, and, are in a good position going forward, so, last season is done, am looking forward to the new, where, all the noises have been that we are to be adding creativity to the side

" Indeed perspective, however, your take on it appears to be based solely on the outcome."

That's absurd! I have clearly voiced my concerns about style, mentality, ability and the utilisation of what is a very large squad at Smith’s disposal.

“Ridiculous amount of games this season, mainly in a short space of time, and, we even have people like the Celtic captain saying our players were f*cked.â€

You still refuse to acknowledge that Walter could have mitigated against player burnout by using ALL the players at his disposal and not sticking to the same tired and out of form 14/15 players. He continually ignored “fully fit†players like Gow, Buffel and Boyd and then has the audacity to complain about squad fatigue.

[outlaw69uk 123]

For Outlaw !!

"style, compared to Le Guens side - No, not as pretty this year no, but, far more successful"

Successful is not a word I would use to describe Walter's negative 4-5-1 formation, as I said in previous posts it did't win us anything as we played 4-4-2 in the Scottish and CIS cups. Yes the tactic may have got us a few decent results along the way but I put that down to pure luck and the fact that Cueller and McGregor were outstanding and NOT the tactic itself.

When I said in my original post that "our style of football hasnt improved", I meant that since Walter has taken over I have seen no improvement in the basics such as passing, ball controll and ball retention etc. I dont care if we dont look pretty but what I want to see is us "improving" and that hasnt happened under Walter, regardless of what he has "almost" acheived.

"Trophies - we got 2! You can piss and moan about Europe and the league, but, we have been embarrassing in Europe for years now, at least this time we made a final"

You used the word "embarrassing" to describe our previous efforts in Europe and rightly so, however that is exactly what we were in the final, embarrassing. Most teams throughout Europe would have said to themselves, we have made the final, a great achievement now lets try and win it. Then there is our attitude of thinking its ok not to even turn up in the final because we have exceeded our expectations by even getting there in the first place, it doesnt matter if we dont win.

Total nonsense as far as I'm concerned, the final should have been seen as a one of chance at glory, so what if we didnt win so long as we had a go and actually tried to win. Instead we just just turned up to make up the numbers, as you said Outalaw its embarrassing.

As i've said many times since Walter has taken over my one biggest fear was his negativity and his same old rigid tactics. It was this same negativity that in my opinion cost us 10 in a row and the same negativity that cost Walter his job at Everton. The fans down there started to lose patience with him after seeing no real progress and the same boring, backs to the wall football for soo long.

If you had said to me at the start of the season that we would take Celtic to the final day and only just lose out on the title, reach the Uefa cup final and win both domestic trophies I would have said you were crazy.

However.....

If you had said to me at the start of the season that we would "throw away" such a massive lead and lose the title on the final day to what is a mediocre Celtic side. Reach the Uefa Cup final by playing the most boring, negative football you will ever watch, carry huge amounts of luck and then not even bother to turn up for the final. Win two domestic trophies the hard way and almost losing to teams such as StJohnstone, QOS and Dundee Utd, I would have said I wouldnt want such a season.

Its all about perspective and how you look at something and when you look at the first scenario everything looks great, a sucessful enough season. However when you look at the second scenario it shows nothing more than another wasted season with Celtic celebrating 3 in a row !!

Indeed perspective, however, your take on it appears to be based solely on the outcome. If we had nicked a goal in the Uefa final, would you still be posting like this? Same with the league? One goal in the motherwell game would have changed it.

You also mention the same negative rigid tactics, but, at the same time, state we didnt use them in all the games (which is true but kinda makes the initial point moot)

Ridiculous amount of games this season, mainly in a short space of time, and, we even have people like the celtic captain saying our players were fucked. I think that has something to do with the performances at the end. I think, basically, with the players at our disposal, we did ok. This was always going to be a transitional season, where we had to win something, anything! which we did, so, it gets a pass, nothing more. The Euro run, with our squad, was immense, regardless of performances.

We won a couple of cups, and, are in a good position going forward, so, last season is done, am looking forward to the new, where, all the noises have been that we are to be adding creativity to the side

" Indeed perspective, however, your take on it appears to be based solely on the outcome."

That's absurd! I have clearly voiced my concerns about style, mentality, ability and the utilisation of what is a very large squad at Smith’s disposal.

“Ridiculous amount of games this season, mainly in a short space of time, and, we even have people like the Celtic captain saying our players were f*cked.â€

You still refuse to acknowledge that Walter could have mitigated against player burnout by using ALL the players at his disposal and not sticking to the same tired and out of form 14/15 players. He continually ignored “fully fit†players like Gow, Buffel and Boyd and then has the audacity to complain about squad fatigue.

Its not absurd, had we scored, and won, like i suggested, would you stil be as vocal about how embarrassing our Euro run/performances were? I assume you will say yes, as, thats the easy thing to do as you havent experienced the alternative.

I agree on Boyd, as he produced when on the field, however, the other 2, as you mentioned, obviously were not producing in training. My understanding is that Gow was not fully fit,and had some serious personal issues to deal with, which would explain why he wasnt used, as for Buffel, who knows, seems talented, but, never did enough for me, so, again understandable.

You also seem to be persisting that is was Smith who was the only person commenting on the fatigue/schedule etc. Did you not see any of the interviews/comments from those in the game all over Europe stating that the schedule was ridiculous, and, essentially designed to hinder rather than help us?

Perhaps your motives are not this, but, you appear to have a personal grudge against the manager, thats what I picked up on in my original post, which also raised questions you chose not to answer, because these highlighted actual positives perhaps?

[port_bear 86]

For Outlaw !!

"style, compared to Le Guens side - No, not as pretty this year no, but, far more successful"

Successful is not a word I would use to describe Walter's negative 4-5-1 formation, as I said in previous posts it did't win us anything as we played 4-4-2 in the Scottish and CIS cups. Yes the tactic may have got us a few decent results along the way but I put that down to pure luck and the fact that Cueller and McGregor were outstanding and NOT the tactic itself.

When I said in my original post that "our style of football hasnt improved", I meant that since Walter has taken over I have seen no improvement in the basics such as passing, ball controll and ball retention etc. I dont care if we dont look pretty but what I want to see is us "improving" and that hasnt happened under Walter, regardless of what he has "almost" acheived.

"Trophies - we got 2! You can piss and moan about Europe and the league, but, we have been embarrassing in Europe for years now, at least this time we made a final"

You used the word "embarrassing" to describe our previous efforts in Europe and rightly so, however that is exactly what we were in the final, embarrassing. Most teams throughout Europe would have said to themselves, we have made the final, a great achievement now lets try and win it. Then there is our attitude of thinking its ok not to even turn up in the final because we have exceeded our expectations by even getting there in the first place, it doesnt matter if we dont win.

Total nonsense as far as I'm concerned, the final should have been seen as a one of chance at glory, so what if we didnt win so long as we had a go and actually tried to win. Instead we just just turned up to make up the numbers, as you said Outalaw its embarrassing.

As i've said many times since Walter has taken over my one biggest fear was his negativity and his same old rigid tactics. It was this same negativity that in my opinion cost us 10 in a row and the same negativity that cost Walter his job at Everton. The fans down there started to lose patience with him after seeing no real progress and the same boring, backs to the wall football for soo long.

If you had said to me at the start of the season that we would take Celtic to the final day and only just lose out on the title, reach the Uefa cup final and win both domestic trophies I would have said you were crazy.

However.....

If you had said to me at the start of the season that we would "throw away" such a massive lead and lose the title on the final day to what is a mediocre Celtic side. Reach the Uefa Cup final by playing the most boring, negative football you will ever watch, carry huge amounts of luck and then not even bother to turn up for the final. Win two domestic trophies the hard way and almost losing to teams such as StJohnstone, QOS and Dundee Utd, I would have said I wouldnt want such a season.

Its all about perspective and how you look at something and when you look at the first scenario everything looks great, a sucessful enough season. However when you look at the second scenario it shows nothing more than another wasted season with Celtic celebrating 3 in a row !!

Indeed perspective, however, your take on it appears to be based solely on the outcome. If we had nicked a goal in the Uefa final, would you still be posting like this? Same with the league? One goal in the motherwell game would have changed it.

You also mention the same negative rigid tactics, but, at the same time, state we didnt use them in all the games (which is true but kinda makes the initial point moot)

Ridiculous amount of games this season, mainly in a short space of time, and, we even have people like the celtic captain saying our players were fucked. I think that has something to do with the performances at the end. I think, basically, with the players at our disposal, we did ok. This was always going to be a transitional season, where we had to win something, anything! which we did, so, it gets a pass, nothing more. The Euro run, with our squad, was immense, regardless of performances.

We won a couple of cups, and, are in a good position going forward, so, last season is done, am looking forward to the new, where, all the noises have been that we are to be adding creativity to the side

" Indeed perspective, however, your take on it appears to be based solely on the outcome."

That's absurd! I have clearly voiced my concerns about style, mentality, ability and the utilisation of what is a very large squad at Smith’s disposal.

“Ridiculous amount of games this season, mainly in a short space of time, and, we even have people like the Celtic captain saying our players were f*cked.â€

You still refuse to acknowledge that Walter could have mitigated against player burnout by using ALL the players at his disposal and not sticking to the same tired and out of form 14/15 players. He continually ignored “fully fit†players like Gow, Buffel and Boyd and then has the audacity to complain about squad fatigue.

Its not absurd, had we scored, and won, like i suggested, would you stil be as vocal about how embarrassing our Euro run/performances were? I assume you will say yes, as, thats the easy thing to do as you havent experienced the alternative.

I agree on Boyd, as he produced when on the field, however, the other 2, as you mentioned, obviously were not producing in training. My understanding is that Gow was not fully fit,and had some serious personal issues to deal with, which would explain why he wasnt used, as for Buffel, who knows, seems talented, but, never did enough for me, so, again understandable.

You also seem to be persisting that is was Smith who was the only person commenting on the fatigue/schedule etc. Did you not see any of the interviews/comments from those in the game all over Europe stating that the schedule was ridiculous, and, essentially designed to hinder rather than help us?

Perhaps your motives are not this, but, you appear to have a personal grudge against the manager, thats what I picked up on in my original post, which also raised questions you chose not to answer, because these highlighted actual positives perhaps?

"Its not absurd, had we scored, and won, like i suggested, would you stil be as vocal about how embarrassing our Euro run/performances were? I assume you will say yes"

Thats the point i'm trying to make Outlaw, we DIDN'T score and we DIDN'T win and even IF we had won the game by a single goal (as you suggested) I would still be voicing my concerns about how embarrassing we were in Europe. If you look back through my posts for the season you will see that despite good results against Lyon, Barca, Bremen and Stuttgart etc etc. I have always voiced my concerns with our performance.

During these posts I have recieved comments such "it's the final results that count", "the performance don't matter so long as we win" etc etc. To an extent that's true but if read back my posts I have not been blinkered by these results, I have posted that these results (despite being great on paper) are just papering over the cracks. I have posted that we have played poor, poor football and were lucky to get quite alot of these results and that unless the football gets better we are going to suffer once the luck runs out, which at the end of the season is what happened.

As I have said in many, many previous posts I see (my opinion) NO improvement in our football on the park since Walter has taken over. Yes the reults have improved and we have managed to get some decent ones in Europe, however the football has been poor and we have allowed many teams (including lower league teams) to control games and in some cases outplay us.

"You also seem to be persisting that is was Smith who was the only person commenting on the fatigue/schedule etc."

Show me where I said that Walter was the "only person commenting on the fatigue" ??

What I did say was that Walter was a mjor factor in the players being fatigued towards the end of the fixture congestion. Now i'm not saying that he was totally to blame but it certainly would have helped ease the situation had he used players like Buffel, Boyd and Gow etc. instead of running the same tried players into the ground just to suit his formation.

"you appear to have a personal grudge against the manager"

My only grudge with Smith (again as i've posted in several other posts) is his negativity and stubourness, something I hoped that may have changed since he has been away. This doesnt seem to be the case and Walter still seems to be the same negative tactcian that he has always been and as someone said on here in another post "he has no plan B". I have always been a big fan of Smith and was over the moon when I heard he was returning to Ibrox, however I will not sit here and proclaim that he is the Mesiah that alot of people on here think he is. The guy has done a great job this season, there is no question of that but he has also made a hell of alot of mistakes, these mistakes in my opinion cost us both the Uefa cup and league title.

[davo1985 0]

4-5-1 away from home in europe is fine. but to do it in a cup final is embarassing. i hope to god he is not thinking about 4-5-1 this year with kenny misser up front himself and boyd on the bench if he does then its 4 in a row tae the mhanks.