bearwhocares 0 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Can you remember a time when every big club had a scotsman playing for them.Even in Europe we had players gracing places like Turin and Rome and they played with such a freedom that was a joy to watch.You would be hard pressed to see that today.But why ? Where have the 'tanner baw' players gone and more importantly where are we going to get them from in the future ? Maybe Im paranoid but to me there was a seed change in the early eighties when the powers that be within the game decided to revamp the way we thought about coaching and the methods we used. Emissaries from the SFA were sent to places like South America,Spain and Italy to look what they did differently and how we could learn from them. What they did'nt realise was that we are Scottish,not Latin American. What they come back with was the way to stop teams playing rather than the positive ways to do that and still play attractive football. Hence the cliches were born 'build from the back' ,'keep a clean sheet','as long as we dont get beat' All negativity which spawned unattractive football and led to the newest one ' grind out a result'. So we have now reached the stage,when we see exceptional players do exceptional things they are classed as worlbeaters,when in reality these exceptional things they do are only what we seen regularly years ago. To sum up there are many factors that can influence how our youngsters see and play the game, television,digital games and computers,but above all it seems to me its the mindset of the fear factor from many of our coaches that determine how our game is played today and until someone is clever (or brave) enough to change it then we will never improve as a nation. Croatia who play with such a pride in themselves and their country is a case in point. The right attitude and a simple work ethic creates a determination that is hard to beat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 505 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Unfortunately, I think the reason we see such unattractive, defensive and negative football is because of one main issue. Money and the attached fear of not having enough to keep a club going. We still have plenty of good players who can play good football but, certainly when it comes to games which mean millions of pounds, they are often sacrificed in favour of the above tactics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric_Caldow 60 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Can you remember a time when every big club had a scotsman playing for them.Even in Europe we had players gracing places like Turin and Rome and they played with such a freedom that was a joy to watch.You would be hard pressed to see that today.But why ? Where have the 'tanner baw' players gone and more importantly where are we going to get them from in the future ? Maybe Im paranoid but to me there was a seed change in the early eighties when the powers that be within the game decided to revamp the way we thought about coaching and the methods we used. Emissaries from the SFA were sent to places like South America,Spain and Italy to look what they did differently and how we could learn from them. What they did'nt realise was that we are Scottish,not Latin American. What they come back with was the way to stop teams playing rather than the positive ways to do that and still play attractive football. Hence the cliches were born 'build from the back' ,'keep a clean sheet','as long as we dont get beat' All negativity which spawned unattractive football and led to the newest one ' grind out a result'. So we have now reached the stage,when we see exceptional players do exceptional things they are classed as worlbeaters,when in reality these exceptional things they do are only what we seen regularly years ago. To sum up there are many factors that can influence how our youngsters see and play the game, television,digital games and computers,but above all it seems to me its the mindset of the fear factor from many of our coaches that determine how our game is played today and until someone is clever (or brave) enough to change it then we will never improve as a nation. Croatia who play with such a pride in themselves and their country is a case in point. The right attitude and a simple work ethic creates a determination that is hard to beat. I think it was Walter Smith who pointed out that since nearly everyone has a car now there is less chance of finding kids playing footie in the street. I have to agree with this since most of my youth was spent in Drumchapel in the sixties where there was maybe one or two cars in my street so it was basically a huge grey football pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
minstral 5,375 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 when i was a kid we played at being soldiers, but walter smith was on our team and it was a waste of time, we never attacked the enemy as we were always on the retreat, he has never changed since those days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briton 394 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I've always thought 1978 was a turning point for Scottish football. I think our confidence took a big hit and we lost a bit of that arrogance Scottish players had. Not saying too much arrogance/confidence is a good thing but I think we sub-consiously went into our shells football wise. That's probably nonsense but it's my theory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimenez 1 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I've always thought 1978 was a turning point for Scottish football. I think our confidence took a big hit and we lost a bit of that arrogance Scottish players had. Not saying too much arrogance/confidence is a good thing but I think we sub-consiously went into our shells football wise. That's probably nonsense but it's my theory. Plenty of talented players in the 80's. I'd put it more down to modern technology, I don't see kids out on the street kicking a ball about anymore. Also the way we coach youngsters from an early age, 20 boys chasing the ball about all over the park doesn't develop their technical side at an early age the way they do over on the continent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briton 394 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I've always thought 1978 was a turning point for Scottish football. I think our confidence took a big hit and we lost a bit of that arrogance Scottish players had. Not saying too much arrogance/confidence is a good thing but I think we sub-consiously went into our shells football wise. That's probably nonsense but it's my theory. Plenty of talented players in the 80's. I'd put it more down to modern technology, I don't see kids out on the street kicking a ball about anymore. Also the way we coach youngsters from an early age, 20 boys chasing the ball about all over the park doesn't develop their technical side at an early age the way they do over on the continent. Not saying the talent dried up, at least not straight away, I'm talking about a state of mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric_Caldow 60 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 when i was a kid we played at being soldiers, but walter smith was on our team and it was a waste of time, we never attacked the enemy as we were always on the retreat, he has never changed since those days. Maybe he just wanted to concentrate on guarding the old fort's walls. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimenez 1 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I've always thought 1978 was a turning point for Scottish football. I think our confidence took a big hit and we lost a bit of that arrogance Scottish players had. Not saying too much arrogance/confidence is a good thing but I think we sub-consiously went into our shells football wise. That's probably nonsense but it's my theory. Plenty of talented players in the 80's. I'd put it more down to modern technology, I don't see kids out on the street kicking a ball about anymore. Also the way we coach youngsters from an early age, 20 boys chasing the ball about all over the park doesn't develop their technical side at an early age the way they do over on the continent. Not saying the talent dried up, at least not straight away, I'm talking about a state of mind. Perhaps, you'll know better than me due to my age. But 78 wouldn't effect youngsters in the 90's and thereafter. We need to look at the way we coach youngsters. Encourage kids to get up of their arses and get out there. Also the mentality of the game up here mainly being that without physical atributes you aren't capable of playing the game has to be ditched Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab 73 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Plenty of talented players in the 80's. I'd put it more down to modern technology, I don't see kids out on the street kicking a ball about anymore. Also the way we coach youngsters from an early age, 20 boys chasing the ball about all over the park doesn't develop their technical side at an early age the way they do over on the continent. I have to disagree there. From 8s, in our council area at least, its 7 a side from ages 7 to 11 where kids then go to 11s. The SFA are also considering, wrongly in my opinion, 5 a side football from the ages I mentioned instead of 7s. I was in Govan a fortnight ago for a tournament with my team and the talent is there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUEDIGNITY 33,638 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Can you remember a time when every big club had a scotsman playing for them.Even in Europe we had players gracing places like Turin and Rome and they played with such a freedom that was a joy to watch.You would be hard pressed to see that today.But why ? Where have the 'tanner baw' players gone and more importantly where are we going to get them from in the future ? Maybe Im paranoid but to me there was a seed change in the early eighties when the powers that be within the game decided to revamp the way we thought about coaching and the methods we used. Emissaries from the SFA were sent to places like South America,Spain and Italy to look what they did differently and how we could learn from them. What they did'nt realise was that we are Scottish,not Latin American. What they come back with was the way to stop teams playing rather than the positive ways to do that and still play attractive football. Hence the cliches were born 'build from the back' ,'keep a clean sheet','as long as we dont get beat' All negativity which spawned unattractive football and led to the newest one ' grind out a result'. So we have now reached the stage,when we see exceptional players do exceptional things they are classed as worlbeaters,when in reality these exceptional things they do are only what we seen regularly years ago. To sum up there are many factors that can influence how our youngsters see and play the game, television,digital games and computers,but above all it seems to me its the mindset of the fear factor from many of our coaches that determine how our game is played today and until someone is clever (or brave) enough to change it then we will never improve as a nation. Croatia who play with such a pride in themselves and their country is a case in point. The right attitude and a simple work ethic creates a determination that is hard to beat. It also went tits up after a teachers strike, the country was full of unpaid scouts at every school. When they went back after this strike a lot of school teams didn't have people willing to take them voluntarily and a great system was lost to the Scottish footballing world ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandSuckMaster 1,775 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 The scouting network for major European teams would have widened as getting to country's outside of Europe would have become easier. I don't think the talent dried up in any way, I just think importing players from other countries was cheaper and the scouting ring went from just Europe to global. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimenez 1 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Plenty of talented players in the 80's. I'd put it more down to modern technology, I don't see kids out on the street kicking a ball about anymore. Also the way we coach youngsters from an early age, 20 boys chasing the ball about all over the park doesn't develop their technical side at an early age the way they do over on the continent. I have to disagree there. From 8s, in our council area at least, its 7 a side from ages 7 to 11 where kids then go to 11s. The SFA are also considering, wrongly in my opinion, 5 a side football from the ages I mentioned instead of 7s. I was in Govan a fortnight ago for a tournament with my team and the talent is there. Suppose it depends where you are. I walked by my local pitch and it was 20 young guys moving like a pack, chasing the ball Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
minstral 5,375 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 in my days there were plenty of pitches for kids to play on, now you struggle to find one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab 73 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Plenty of talented players in the 80's. I'd put it more down to modern technology, I don't see kids out on the street kicking a ball about anymore. Also the way we coach youngsters from an early age, 20 boys chasing the ball about all over the park doesn't develop their technical side at an early age the way they do over on the continent. I have to disagree there. From 8s, in our council area at least, its 7 a side from ages 7 to 11 where kids then go to 11s. The SFA are also considering, wrongly in my opinion, 5 a side football from the ages I mentioned instead of 7s. I was in Govan a fortnight ago for a tournament with my team and the talent is there. Suppose it depends where you are. I walked by my local pitch and it was 20 young guys moving like a pack, chasing the ball You said 'we coach youngsters' but then you said you were talking about walking by your local pitch but was that local pitch involving a coach? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUEDIGNITY 33,638 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 The kids would rather play assassins creed on the xbox !!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric_Caldow 60 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 The kids would rather play assassins creed on the xbox !!!! How you getting on with that game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUEDIGNITY 33,638 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 The kids would rather play assassins creed on the xbox !!!! How you getting on with that game. Friggin strugglin mate but it's good, relying on ma boy to assist an auld man ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briton 394 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I've always thought 1978 was a turning point for Scottish football. I think our confidence took a big hit and we lost a bit of that arrogance Scottish players had. Not saying too much arrogance/confidence is a good thing but I think we sub-consiously went into our shells football wise. That's probably nonsense but it's my theory. Plenty of talented players in the 80's. I'd put it more down to modern technology, I don't see kids out on the street kicking a ball about anymore. Also the way we coach youngsters from an early age, 20 boys chasing the ball about all over the park doesn't develop their technical side at an early age the way they do over on the continent. Not saying the talent dried up, at least not straight away, I'm talking about a state of mind. Perhaps, you'll know better than me due to my age. But 78 wouldn't effect youngsters in the 90's and thereafter. We need to look at the way we coach youngsters. Encourage kids to get up of their arses and get out there. Also the mentality of the game up here mainly being that without physical atributes you aren't capable of playing the game has to be ditched It could effect the attitude of coaches/fans and the general culture of the game though. Obviously the answer is not going to be a simplistic one and there's going to be many factors. I totally agree about the physical side of the game in Scotland. We need to adjust the balance between skill and the physical side IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUEDIGNITY 33,638 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 The days of Drumchapel Ams, Eastercraigs, Possil YM, Glasgow Ams have gone and along with the school involvement in them days have left the country adrift of talent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUE CYCLOPS 26 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Since any change is going to come from individual clubs and will not be a government/social revolution, I think adopting the Dutch method has a lot going for it. With one proviso, up until the age of 12 yrs. all kids football should be non-competitive. By that I mean no leagues, no cups, no parents/coaches on the sidelines screaming, trying to put a "professional winning mentality" into 10/11/12 yr. old kids. Lets the kids learn the basics, the skills from professional coaches under no pressure to get results. Only when they have been thouroughly taught the sort of "tanner baw" skills and modern tactics and movements should they be introduced to competitive football. In the "tanner baw" days we learnt thoss skills by watching our heroes in the flesh and then trying them out in the street. We didn,t have coaches or watch wall-to-wall European football on the telly. The game has changed and we have to adapt to suit.,but I firmly believe that kids should learn the ball skills and how to play the game properly before being introduced to competitive football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimenez 1 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 You said 'we coach youngsters' but then you said you were talking about walking by your local pitch but was that local pitch involving a coach? Well seeing as they had strips on and a bald guy on either side shoutin instructions then I'm guessing they were being coached in someway Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab 73 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 You said 'we coach youngsters' but then you said you were talking about walking by your local pitch but was that local pitch involving a coach? Well seeing as they had strips on and a bald guy on either side shoutin instructions then I'm guessing they were being coached in someway Ok. What said was a bit vague, that was all. It could have been the game at the end of the training, but he may just be a bad coach who isn't creating small sides games to encouraging 'lots of touches' as I was taught. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric_Caldow 60 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 You said 'we coach youngsters' but then you said you were talking about walking by your local pitch but was that local pitch involving a coach? Well seeing as they had strips on and a bald guy on either side shoutin instructions then I'm guessing they were being coached in someway ......or groomed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUEDIGNITY 33,638 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 You said 'we coach youngsters' but then you said you were talking about walking by your local pitch but was that local pitch involving a coach? Well seeing as they had strips on and a bald guy on either side shoutin instructions then I'm guessing they were being coached in someway Aye and probably a bunch of fcuk-wit parents at the side shoutin fur their Ryan to be star man. ! The gemes fcuked at that level at the moment ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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