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D'Artagnan

I am what I am

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Well yet another shit stirring thread from a timmy imposter has gone the way of the admin’s deleted key....and quite right too. Given the recent banning of certain members as they were “outedâ€, along with the personal abuse I have received recently, just goes to show that this site is getting right up timmy’s nose. Can there be any greater award ?

Of course the very notion of freedom of thought or expression is quite alien to timmy...perhaps thats why so many of them are outed so quickly.

Their agenda always seems to be to discredit our club....our support...and of course, and probably most importantly, our unity. It takes no great leap of imagination to understand that the same forces are at work not only on the internet but within the press itself. Im not talking of a negative,,,and often justified critique of Rangers....Im not talking about the continual diminuition of our club and support by certain writers....cue the likes of Speirs and Anna Smith. Their hatred of our club is no different to the interlopers on here who, from time to time masquerade as Bears with different degrees of success.

Its perhaps apt at this time to give this whole subject some serious consideration given recent threads by Minstral and Danny which examined our clubs relationship with the Orange Order, and the variance of opinion on internet forums to that actually experienced at Ibrox and amongst the Rangers support.

For all his faults the Fish highlighted a very important point – that some of the opinions or beliefs expressed on this message boards were totally alien to that expressed on supporters clubs or buses. I would certainly vouch for that...if certain posters were to espouse their views or opinions in the Mermaid on a Saturday afternoon then I can assure you they would be short lived beliefs. However to suggest that such expression is the domain of timposters alone would be inaccurate. If I was to take my good friend Boab down to my pre-match hostelry I would have to ensure he kept his opinions in check !!! But Im certain Boab is wise enough to realise this.

Its dangerous to embrace the world of political correctness and not necessarily right. Political emphasis changes like the wind...or more appropriately...with successive governments...hence why “Scotlands Shame†seems to have been totally discarded. Within man (or woman !) is ingrained the the ability to determine what is right and wrong....and it does not require the services of a spin doctor or politician to guide the way.

Our club and our support have faced many challenges recently and we have met them head on..where necessary we have stood firm but we also have adapted to change. We have never lied or prevaricated, nor have we tried to excuse the inexcusable. Unlike others, where our people have stepped out of line whether they be directors, players or supporters they have been duly punished. And severely in some cases. Can others claim to have done the same ?

But we should not abandon those who are loyal to us....just because certain sections of the media wish to demonise them. The airbrushing of a Red Hand flag from a Rangers publication serves as an example of what we are up against.

Its time to grow a set of balls....a backbone of steel...and to stand in what we believe in. If it runs contrary to what society suggests – then test your own hearts – society is not always right.

We are Rangers, we are great because of what we hold on to.

We are what we are and we shall never surrender. And our refusal to do so is our very strength.

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Well yet another shit stirring thread from a timmy imposter has gone the way of the admin’s deleted key....and quite right too. Given the recent banning of certain members as they were “outedâ€, along with the personal abuse I have received recently, just goes to show that this site is getting right up timmy’s nose. Can there be any greater award ?

Of course the very notion of freedom of thought or expression is quite alien to timmy...perhaps thats why so many of them are outed so quickly.

Their agenda always seems to be to discredit our club....our support...and of course, and probably most importantly, our unity. It takes no great leap of imagination to understand that the same forces are at work not only on the internet but within the press itself. Im not talking of a negative,,,and often justified critique of Rangers....Im not talking about the continual diminuition of our club and support by certain writers....cue the likes of Speirs and Anna Smith. Their hatred of our club is no different to the interlopers on here who, from time to time masquerade as Bears with different degrees of success.

Its perhaps apt at this time to give this whole subject some serious consideration given recent threads by Minstral and Danny which examined our clubs relationship with the Orange Order, and the variance of opinion on internet forums to that actually experienced at Ibrox and amongst the Rangers support.

For all his faults the Fish highlighted a very important point – that some of the opinions or beliefs expressed on this message boards were totally alien to that expressed on supporters clubs or buses. I would certainly vouch for that...if certain posters were to espouse their views or opinions in the Mermaid on a Saturday afternoon then I can assure you they would be short lived beliefs. However to suggest that such expression is the domain of timposters alone would be inaccurate. If I was to take my good friend Boab down to my pre-match hostelry I would have to ensure he kept his opinions in check !!! But Im certain Boab is wise enough to realise this.

Its dangerous to embrace the world of political correctness and not necessarily right. Political emphasis changes like the wind...or more appropriately...with successive governments...hence why “Scotlands Shame†seems to have been totally discarded. Within man (or woman !) is ingrained the the ability to determine what is right and wrong....and it does not require the services of a spin doctor or politician to guide the way.

Our club and our support have faced many challenges recently and we have met them head on..where necessary we have stood firm but we also have adapted to change. We have never lied or prevaricated, nor have we tried to excuse the inexcusable. Unlike others, where our people have stepped out of line whether they be directors, players or supporters they have been duly punished. And severely in some cases. Can others claim to have done the same ?

But we should not abandon those who are loyal to us....just because certain sections of the media wish to demonise them. The airbrushing of a Red Hand flag from a Rangers publication serves as an example of what we are up against.

Its time to grow a set of balls....a backbone of steel...and to stand in what we believe in. If it runs contrary to what society suggests – then test your own hearts – society is not always right.

We are Rangers, we are great because of what we hold on to.

We are what we are and we shall never surrender. And our refusal to do so is our very strength.

I wasn't going to read this until tomorow morning but I noticed my name and so I better/have!

If I was to take my good friend Boab down to my pre-match hostelry I would have to ensure he kept his opinions in check !!! But Im certain Boab is wise enough to realise this.

Another mention of the wee nationalist :blush: You obviously read my post in Danny's thread, and indeed it is about the right time and place. And also its important, as I've done when entering new situations, take a step back and listen of which I'm sure I would do. I can appear shy but that is quite misleading. I'm always willing to learn, ask questions.

The overall post is not one admittedly I am going to fall in love with but its still certainly a very good one and one which makes copious good points.

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Im sure you wont fall in love with it....I would be disappointed if you did ! :mutley:

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Great post. We must stick together, something we're good at when it's anything against the tims though. Just not anywhere else.

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We are what we are and we shall never surrender. And our refusal to do so is our very strength.

Brilliant D'Art.

What we are and what we stand for is not fashionable.

The hard of thinking just don't understand that this is what 'No-one likes us we don't care' means.

They try to insist we must take it literally.

No, like everyone, we want to be liked, but we will not change without good reason.

What does it profit a man to gain the world if he loses his soul in the process?

Atheist disclaimer: not that I believe in souls but I'm sure you know what I mean :)

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some of our fans along with murray would rather all our traditions were left behind, but it will never happen as there is to many of our fans will never surrender to all the pc and do gooders.

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some of our fans along with murray would rather all our traditions were left behind, but it will never happen as there is to many of our fans will never surrender to all the pc and do gooders.

No Surrender Hermano :unionflag:

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Of course the very notion of freedom of thought or expression is quite alien to timmy...perhaps thats why so many of them are outed so quickly.

For all his faults the Fish highlighted a very important point – that some of the opinions or beliefs expressed on this message boards were totally alien to that expressed on supporters clubs or buses. I would certainly vouch for that...if certain posters were to espouse their views or opinions in the Mermaid on a Saturday afternoon then I can assure you they would be short lived beliefs.

So is freedom of thought/expression as alien in the Mermaid for example as you suggest it is to timmy..? That is how it sounds D'Art. I am uncomfortable with that kind of intolerance.

Freedom of thought/expression is a very important principle to me and if that principle is upheld better on forums like RM than it is on certain buses/clubs/pubs etc then that is to the credit of the forums etc.

As the song goes:

Life's not worth a damn till you can shout out

I am what I am

ie life aint worth a damn without freedom of thought/expression.

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Spot on D'Art, perhaps never more so than now are we up against it from sections of 'society'. We must stand firm and regardless of societie's opinion stand up for our club while at the same time doing so with the dignity required.

Let them worry about us, we will not stoop to their depths. Ever.

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Of course the very notion of freedom of thought or expression is quite alien to timmy...p

...if certain posters were to espouse their views or opinions in the Mermaid on a Saturday afternoon then I can assure you they would be short lived beliefs. However to suggest that such expression is the domain of timposters alone would be inaccurate. If I was to take my good friend Boab down to my pre-match hostelry I would have to ensure he kept his opinions in check !!!

In essence, what you are saying is that many Rangers can speak freely here, but would be well advised to simply shut it in 'real' world when around other Rangers supporters of a differing outlook on our history and culture? That's a pretty damning statement - much like Minstral's recent assertion that I couldn't share my differences of opinion when around him and his mates or else I'd be 'chased'.

I think this is wrong. I've spoken to Rangers men all my life, with all the wildly disparate opinions imaginable, and I've never yet had my opinions silenced and most certainly not in the way you suggest - that my beliefs would be short lived.

But, there's an important point highlighted here; that some Rangers supporters would respond aggressively to fellow Rangers who's view on our club didn't embrace their view? According to you. Is it not perfectly clear therefore why the differences of opinion so freely expressed here are not able to be spoken of in the environments you highlight? Catch 22.

Where's the value in that? Absolutely not something to be proud of I'd have thought.

And whilst you assert that The Rangers are made great because of what (you think) we hold on to - I'll understand your view, but I think The Rangers are made great by the continued embracing of changes necessary to progress the ideals and continued success of our greatest of clubs. Changes that most certainly do not include a suppression of opinions because of any fear that expressing them might result in a threatening response.

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Fucking shite, talk about free speech then say you'd better not say what you think on the supporters buses or in the pub, fuck that, I'll say what I want to tims and bears equally, have some spine. Our forefathers fought and died for freedom, burned and tortured so that we could be free to believe whatever we want.

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Fucking shite, talk about free speech then say you'd better not say what you think on the supporters buses or in the pub, fuck that, I'll say what I want to tims and bears equally, have some spine. Our forefathers fought and died for freedom, burned and tortured so that we could be free to believe whatever we want.

Excellent post mate. (tu)

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Of course the very notion of freedom of thought or expression is quite alien to timmy...perhaps thats why so many of them are outed so quickly.

For all his faults the Fish highlighted a very important point – that some of the opinions or beliefs expressed on this message boards were totally alien to that expressed on supporters clubs or buses. I would certainly vouch for that...if certain posters were to espouse their views or opinions in the Mermaid on a Saturday afternoon then I can assure you they would be short lived beliefs.

So is freedom of thought/expression as alien in the Mermaid for example as you suggest it is to timmy..? That is how it sounds D'Art. I am uncomfortable with that kind of intolerance.

Freedom of thought/expression is a very important principle to me and if that principle is upheld better on forums like RM than it is on certain buses/clubs/pubs etc then that is to the credit of the forums etc.

As the song goes:

Life's not worth a damn till you can shout out

I am what I am

ie life aint worth a damn without freedom of thought/expression.

I took that to mean something slightly different, in another way of putting it

* Would you Go to a mosque and tell them their beliefs and principles and ideas were wrong? (or vice versa of course)

* Would you go to a vegans meeting and expect them to serve you meat?

* would you go to a jewish bar and promote hitler as a good guy?

Would you do any of these, and NOT expect a negative reaction? Of course not, so, why would you go to a Rangers bar or bus or forum, and, promote views held, mainly by those in the mhedia and across the way as how Rangers fans should act, and NOT expect some kind of reaction?

Seems fairly obvious to me

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Of course the very notion of freedom of thought or expression is quite alien to timmy...p

...if certain posters were to espouse their views or opinions in the Mermaid on a Saturday afternoon then I can assure you they would be short lived beliefs. However to suggest that such expression is the domain of timposters alone would be inaccurate. If I was to take my good friend Boab down to my pre-match hostelry I would have to ensure he kept his opinions in check !!!

In essence, what you are saying is that many Rangers can speak freely here, but would be well advised to simply shut it in 'real' world when around other Rangers supporters of a differing outlook on our history and culture? That's a pretty damning statement - much like Minstral's recent assertion that I couldn't share my differences of opinion when around him and his mates or else I'd be 'chased'.

I think this is wrong. I've spoken to Rangers men all my life, with all the wildly disparate opinions imaginable, and I've never yet had my opinions silenced and most certainly not in the way you suggest - that my beliefs would be short lived.

But, there's an important point highlighted here; that some Rangers supporters would respond aggressively to fellow Rangers who's view on our club didn't embrace their view? According to you. Is it not perfectly clear therefore why the differences of opinion so freely expressed here are not able to be spoken of in the environments you highlight? Catch 22.

Where's the value in that? Absolutely not something to be proud of I'd have thought.

And whilst you assert that The Rangers are made great because of what (you think) we hold on to - I'll understand your view, but I think The Rangers are made great by the continued embracing of changes necessary to progress the ideals and continued success of our greatest of clubs. Changes that most certainly do not include a suppression of opinions because of any fear that expressing them might result in a threatening response.

i hope you are not saying that violence would be used, i never have threatened people with violence, and never will do, but they would chase you and tell you to get lost with some of the things that you were saying.

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* Would you Go to a mosque and tell them their beliefs and principles and ideas were wrong? (or vice versa of course)

* Would you go to a vegans meeting and expect them to serve you meat?

* would you go to a jewish bar and promote hitler as a good guy?

Would you do any of these, and NOT expect a negative reaction? Of course not, so, why would you go to a Rangers bar or bus or forum, and, promote views held, mainly by those in the mhedia and across the way as how Rangers fans should act, and NOT expect some kind of reaction?

Seems fairly obvious to me

The OP was not talking about the 'mhedia' or Tims, but views espoused on this forum by Bears. Maybe you (or he) could provide an example of a Bear's view, a Bear that is that has the downright temerity to have some 'notion of freedom of thought or expression', that would lead his beliefs being 'short lived' (presumably a euphemism for physical violence) at The Mermaid.

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Of course the very notion of freedom of thought or expression is quite alien to timmy...perhaps thats why so many of them are outed so quickly.

No they are outed because they try to rip the pish in an all too obvious manner. :)

Their agenda always seems to be to discredit our club....our support...and of course, and probably most importantly, our unity.

But that's what we do to them as well. It's a tit for tat thing. I don't think we should get too upset because our rivals slag us off with certain banners or whatever, we just have to respond with our own. Which we do rather effectively in my opinion.

....cue the likes of Speirs and Anna Smith. Their hatred of our club is no different to the interlopers on here who, from time to time masquerade as Bears with different degrees of success.

So who cares what these cretins write? Don't buy the rag they write for. If enough people ignore them they lose their jobs. If we keep writing in and complaining about them then their editor sees that as a good response and encourages more of the same from them.

For all his faults the Fish highlighted a very important point – that some of the opinions or beliefs expressed on this message boards were totally alien to that expressed on supporters clubs or buses. I would certainly vouch for that...if certain posters were to espouse their views or opinions in the Mermaid on a Saturday afternoon then I can assure you they would be short lived beliefs. However to suggest that such expression is the domain of timposters alone would be inaccurate. If I was to take my good friend Boab down to my pre-match hostelry I would have to ensure he kept his opinions in check !!! But Im certain Boab is wise enough to realise this.

Fish was a dinosaur. If he was to repeat some of the stuff he came out with on here, in public, he'd be arrested or thumped. But no doubt he'd do it amongst people with a similar attitude. Like the pub you're talking about. A pub so full of good Rangers fans that they might set about a fellow Bear just because he didn't share the exact same sentiments as them.

As SaintBob1969 says, you can't go around trumpeting freedom of thought or expression and then suggest Boab had better watch what he says around your friends.

The airbrushing of a Red Hand flag from a Rangers publication serves as an example of what we are up against.

That was wrong but the newspaper in question did apologise and I don't think anyone was harmed by it. Just a few noses put out of joint. :)

I admire your dedication to stopping the media from portraying Rangers and our fans in bad light. But unfortunately it will take a huge a effort to overturn the damage caused by a few idiots in Manchester. Even though our fans were basically exonerated for the most part. I fear the press will hang on to this for a while yet.

Keep up the good work mate. (tu)

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Of course the very notion of freedom of thought or expression is quite alien to timmy...perhaps thats why so many of them are outed so quickly.

For all his faults the Fish highlighted a very important point – that some of the opinions or beliefs expressed on this message boards were totally alien to that expressed on supporters clubs or buses. I would certainly vouch for that...if certain posters were to espouse their views or opinions in the Mermaid on a Saturday afternoon then I can assure you they would be short lived beliefs.

So is freedom of thought/expression as alien in the Mermaid for example as you suggest it is to timmy..? That is how it sounds D'Art. I am uncomfortable with that kind of intolerance.

Freedom of thought/expression is a very important principle to me and if that principle is upheld better on forums like RM than it is on certain buses/clubs/pubs etc then that is to the credit of the forums etc.

As the song goes:

Life's not worth a damn till you can shout out

I am what I am

ie life aint worth a damn without freedom of thought/expression.

I took that to mean something slightly different, in another way of putting it

* Would you Go to a mosque and tell them their beliefs and principles and ideas were wrong? (or vice versa of course)

* Would you go to a vegans meeting and expect them to serve you meat?

* would you go to a jewish bar and promote hitler as a good guy?

Would you do any of these, and NOT expect a negative reaction? Of course not, so, why would you go to a Rangers bar or bus or forum, and, promote views held, mainly by those in the mhedia and across the way as how Rangers fans should act, and NOT expect some kind of reaction?

Seems fairly obvious to me

All your examples are strangers from one culture going into it and shouting their mouth off in an aggressive and patronsing way (eg a christian going to a mosque, a meat eater going to a veggie meeting, a nazi going to a jewish bar etc) and are hardly the same thing as a Rangers fan on a Rangers forum - or in a club - expressing an opinion when asked or in an open discussion that may not be mainstream etc. You have twisted/simplified it.

And, if you are going to uphold freedom of thought or expression as a value worth having - and criticise others for lacking it - then you must always uphold it and always condemn those that don't, even your own etc - otherwise your principles count for nought.

And, ultimately - if pressed for your opinion/version of the truth then you should be man enough to state it without fear regardless of the company/situation you are in - otherwise you are a coward.

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no half the cowards are on this board, all we hear is we should move forward, and leave all the protestant traditions in the past as they have nothing to do with our club. plus members telling us some of the songs are not acceptable that our support sing, then others on abour our irish support, asking what they have to do with our club, well guys as i keep saying get along to ibrox on a match day ans try to convert the fans to your ideas, but you know what it will never happen, as you are all mouth and no trousers as i have told you before, and before you start i am not on about violence, they would just tel you to get to f--k.

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