Force Majeure

[daviec1953 147]

Apologies if someone has already posted this. Please delete if it's already been seen.

It would appear that because Rangers are the victims of fraud done by Whyte , we should not have had other penaties applied to us.

A mate sent this to me:

“So now we know that 6/11 clubs have decided that in the name of "Sporting Integrity" they will not be allowing the big bad Rangers to remain in the SPL.

There are however some problems with the logic behind these decisions and I will try to explain these and then why it could open the door for not only the SPL, but the clubs and their directors to become the subject of legal action by whoever is the custodian of Rangers Football Club.

The reason for the "Sporting Integrity" claim is that the clubs (who suddenly have decided to listen to the fans) have decided that the big bad Rangers have to be punished for breaking the rules!

So what rules have Rangers broken?

1. "Those EBT's and the dual contracts man"

Unfortunately for these clubs, there has been nothing concluded about the use of EBT'S or dual contracts. The SPL (acting on the advice of Septics lawyers) believe they have a case to answer (in other words they want them to answer some questions and explain some things they don't understand) but that is it.

In fact, as has been explained in another thread, it appears that HMRC seem to be of the opinion that Rangers only acted on professional advice in good faith, so are only guilty of poor financial management, not deliberate tax avoidance/evasion. Therefore as a result they intend to chase the directors/players who benefitted from said advice, because they don't appear to see the club as culpable or liable.

Also the EBT'S were declared in the annual accounts, so weren't hidden as is claimed, from the SFA because these accounts are filed annually with the Association after being independently audited and signed off.

Finally, any sporadic bonus that I receive from my employer is not written into my contract of employment so why should any footballers have to be either? My guaranteed bonuses through any performance related pay are documented, which I assume would be the same for players with respect to win, goal, appearance bonuses.

With respect to the EBT'S, they appear to be ad-hoc bonuses and the so called smoking gun of the side letters, only seem to explain how any such payments would be made, in the event that the player was considered eligible for them. Again this is alluded to in other threads.

In summary, nothing has been proved so far, there are no criminal charges pending and most importantly Rangers are currently not guilty of anything connected to tax avoidance/evasion as is being claimed, therefore cannot be punished as a result of this.

2. "They didn't pay PAYE/NIC last season"

Yes, that is correct, however Rangers were found guilty by the SFA of bringing the game into disrepute as a result of this. This led to the club being punished accordingly by an SFA judicial panel, granted the punishment has yet to be confirmed as the result of legal argument, but they have already been punished for this.

So again, no further punishment can be delivered

3. "They went into administration, with loads of debt"

Again, this is correct, but once again (in accordance with SPL rules) Rangers have already been punished for this by receiving a 10 point deduction in last season league championship race, and have had prize monies withheld to cover any footballing debts to other SPL clubs, the maximum penalties available to the league.

Again, this means there can be no further punishment

4. "They were liquidated"

Again this is correct, however the liquidation is the result of the existing "Insolvency Event" and as a result Rangers have already been punished to the maximum penalties with reference to the existing "Insolvency Event"

In addition to these penalties, as a result of the company being liquidated, the club are now prevented from competing in Europe for the next 3 years, denying them the opportunity to possibly earn an additional £45m in revenue during this time, and are also looking as possibly losing players as a result of the TUPE regulations covering the transfer of employment contracts.

Therefore the club have already been penalised under the "insolvency event" rules and have to accept the additional consequences as a result of these events.

So as you can see at this point the club have already been punished to the maximum under the rules available to the ruling bodies for said "Insolvency Event".

This means that the only thing that should be considered is whether the new owners are "Fit & Proper Persons" and as a result should they be allowed to receive ownership of the SPL share and SFA membership, that's it.

Granted there was previously no advice or rules prior to this season regarding what should happen in the event of a newco share transfer. The only advice was that the SPL board should make the decision should the situation ever arise, but the clubs demanded a say in this and this is how we end in this situation, with the clubs, their fans and chairman of the opinion that they will punish Rangersfor their misdemeanours.

Herein lies the problem - "Rangers have already been punished for those misdemeanours"

Any further punishment as a result of this could be therefore deemed as acting ultra vires, to quote Lord Glennie and could result in another trip to the Court of Session for a Judicial Review, if the ruling was then made in favour of Rangers it would allow for the SPL, clubs and directors being sued.

Why would they rule in favour of Rangers, well the answer is simple and it is written within the SPL rule book, I'll explain.

The SPL rule book explains that if any club suffers an "Insolvency Event" as the result of an act of "Force Majeure" they can appeal any punishments received to the SPL board, who will refer the case to an Appellant Tribunal to make a final binding decision on what should be the eventual outcome.

What is "Force Majeure"?

Quite simply this means should any club suffer said "Insolvency Event" as a result of a criminal act, then they can appeal any punishments and allow the Appellant Tribunal make the decision.

Now with the Craig Whyte takeover and subsequent actions now being subject to a criminal investigation, the SPL should be looking to remove the power surrounding any newco vote from the clubs, until the investigation has concluded at the very least.

As a result, they should refer the situation to an independent Appellant Tribunal, who should allow Rangers to compete in the SPL next season under appeal with any future decisions on punishment/exclusion to be concluded after the criminal investigation/prosecution has been finalised.

Granted, if at the end of the process it is found that Rangers didn't suffer as the result of "Force Majeure" then the SPL board would therefore be within their rights to allow the Appellant Tribunal to deal with this with whatever punishment was allowed within the rules.

However, if they don't allow Rangers to compete under appeal next season and it is found that the club suffered as a result of "Force Majeure" they would be leaving themselves wide open to legal action for failing to abide with their own rules, similar to what happened with the SFA with respect to the transfer embargo.

Anyway an explanation of "Force Majeure" and the rules can be found here:

http://www.scotprem.com/content/medi...MAY%202012.pdf

Pages 14,15 & 80 I think”

[Creampuff 22,628]

Mistake #1: Presuming any decision made by a footballing authority in Scotland has to be logical/fair/balanced/legal.

[AlCapone 7,678]

excellent post mate

[T_Cradle85 3]

Read first few lines, fuck reading the rest.

Will quickly say though, that Whyte was working in the name of Rangers - thus us being punished. He done his crimes in the benefit of his company - Rangers. We done the deed etc etc

Secondly, and where I stopped reading to be honest, I will say quickly what I just said in another thread, we are not being punished for the EBT's etc. The basis of these 'punishments' on the NewCo is for jumping 3 divisions of football, and as a NewCo (company or club, doesn't matter, share is being asked to be passed). It isn't to punish us for the previous clubs wrong doing, it's to be punished for not playing through the 3 other leagues like every other club has to.

yes as fans we would rather stick it to them and play in div3, but unfortunately the tit in charge of us now clearly wouldn't want that for financial reasons, hence applying for SPL and trying to jump the leagues. These 'punishments' that may come are for jumping the leagues and direct entry in to the SPL. (other motives may lie behind some votes, but inevitably it will be made as a ppunishment for jumping the divisions)

[markybear 136]

Interesting.

I hope Ricky keen knows all this already and will use in any legal defence we have to mount

[DietofWorms 2,063]

Bump.

[theySTILLKNOW 80]

Read first few lines, fuck reading the rest.

Will quickly say though, that Whyte was working in the name of Rangers - thus us being punished. He done his crimes in the benefit of his company - Rangers. We done the deed etc etc

Secondly, and where I stopped reading to be honest, I will say quickly what I just said in another thread, we are not being punished for the EBT's etc. The basis of these 'punishments' on the NewCo is for jumping 3 divisions of football, and as a NewCo (company or club, doesn't matter, share is being asked to be passed). It isn't to punish us for the previous clubs wrong doing, it's to be punished for not playing through the 3 other leagues like every other club has to.

yes as fans we would rather stick it to them and play in div3, but unfortunately the tit in charge of us now clearly wouldn't want that for financial reasons, hence applying for SPL and trying to jump the leagues. These 'punishments' that may come are for jumping the leagues and direct entry in to the SPL. (other motives may lie behind some votes, but inevitably it will be made as a ppunishment for jumping the divisions)

What benefit did this company,that's going to be liquidated,get from whytes actions ?

[dummiesoot 16,003]

Read first few lines, fuck reading the rest.

Will quickly say though, that Whyte was working in the name of Rangers - thus us being punished. He done his crimes in the benefit of his company - Rangers. We done the deed etc etc

Secondly, and where I stopped reading to be honest, I will say quickly what I just said in another thread, we are not being punished for the EBT's etc. The basis of these 'punishments' on the NewCo is for jumping 3 divisions of football, and as a NewCo (company or club, doesn't matter, share is being asked to be passed). It isn't to punish us for the previous clubs wrong doing, it's to be punished for not playing through the 3 other leagues like every other club has to.

yes as fans we would rather stick it to them and play in div3, but unfortunately the tit in charge of us now clearly wouldn't want that for financial reasons, hence applying for SPL and trying to jump the leagues. These 'punishments' that may come are for jumping the leagues and direct entry in to the SPL. (other motives may lie behind some votes, but inevitably it will be made as a ppunishment for jumping the divisions)

Illegal take over! Now fuck off timmy.

[T_Cradle85 3]

What benefit did this company,that's going to be liquidated,get from whytes actions ?

In hindsight, heehaw obviously. But it was done as a Rangers chairman, in the supposed benefit of Rangers (Whyte fleeced and conned us all, hindsight is a great thing)

[T_Cradle85 3]

Illegal take over! Now fuck off timmy.

As will no doubt be proved, hopefully soon, and hopefully in time that we don't get screwed over any more.

Yip, must be a timmy, I have an opinion that differs from you, and I am able to see things without the tinted glasses.

[sergio 1,199]

Read first few lines, fuck reading the rest.

Will quickly say though, that Whyte was working in the name of Rangers - thus us being punished. He done his crimes in the benefit of his company - Rangers. We done the deed etc etc

Secondly, and where I stopped reading to be honest, I will say quickly what I just said in another thread, we are not being punished for the EBT's etc. The basis of these 'punishments' on the NewCo is for jumping 3 divisions of football, and as a NewCo (company or club, doesn't matter, share is being asked to be passed). It isn't to punish us for the previous clubs wrong doing, it's to be punished for not playing through the 3 other leagues like every other club has to.

yes as fans we would rather stick it to them and play in div3, but unfortunately the tit in charge of us now clearly wouldn't want that for financial reasons, hence applying for SPL and trying to jump the leagues. These 'punishments' that may come are for jumping the leagues and direct entry in to the SPL. (other motives may lie behind some votes, but inevitably it will be made as a ppunishment for jumping the divisions)

Newco = new company NEVER new club fucking declan

[T_Cradle85 3]

Newco = new company NEVER new club fucking declan

However you paint it up, the share we had in the SPL has gone. someone else has to apply for it. The SPL are seeing it as a new club, regardless of what we think or consider.

[Getstiffed 8,863]

Read first few lines, fuck reading the rest.

Will quickly say though, that Whyte was working in the name of Rangers - thus us being punished. He done his crimes in the benefit of his company - Rangers. We done the deed etc etc

Secondly, and where I stopped reading to be honest, I will say quickly what I just said in another thread, we are not being punished for the EBT's etc. The basis of these 'punishments' on the NewCo is for jumping 3 divisions of football, and as a NewCo (company or club, doesn't matter, share is being asked to be passed). It isn't to punish us for the previous clubs wrong doing, it's to be punished for not playing through the 3 other leagues like every other club has to.

yes as fans we would rather stick it to them and play in div3, but unfortunately the tit in charge of us now clearly wouldn't want that for financial reasons, hence applying for SPL and trying to jump the leagues. These 'punishments' that may come are for jumping the leagues and direct entry in to the SPL. (other motives may lie behind some votes, but inevitably it will be made as a ppunishment for jumping the divisions)

Can you point out the benefits the club or support received through this mans actions?

[theySTILLKNOW 80]

In hindsight, heehaw obviously. But it was done as a Rangers chairman, in the supposed benefit of Rangers (Whyte fleeced and conned us all, hindsight is a great thing)

You,I and everyone else doesn't know why whyte done what he done,you repeatedly saying it was for Rangers benefit doesn't make it so.

[T_Cradle85 3]

Can you point out the benefits the club or support received through this mans actions?

Hindsight is a great thing.

Clearly in hindsight we know Whyte done all this for his own gain, and he will hopefully be dealt with properly in due course.

But I would reckon the not paying £9million of tax and paye while he was here would have eased our spending, probably allowed for the likes of Bedoya, Bocanegra, Wallace etc to be signed last season. Think some of them can be classed as benefits. Specially when we are now congratulating the likes of Wallace for sticking with us.

[Rfc#1. 1,877]

Hindsight is a great thing.

Clearly in hindsight we know Whyte done all this for his own gain, and he will hopefully be dealt with properly in due course.

But I would reckon the not paying £9million of tax and paye while he was here would have eased our spending, probably allowed for the likes of Bedoya, Bocanegra, Wallace etc to be signed last season. Think some of them can be classed as benefits. Specially when we are now congratulating the likes of Wallace for sticking with us.

[theySTILLKNOW 80]

Hindsight is a great thing.

Clearly in hindsight we know Whyte done all this for his own gain, and he will hopefully be dealt with properly in due course.

But I would reckon the not paying £9million of tax and paye while he was here would have eased our spending, probably allowed for the likes of Bedoya, Bocanegra, Wallace etc to be signed last season. Think some of them can be classed as benefits. Specially when we are now congratulating the likes of Wallace for sticking with us.

We managed to pay our bills for 139 years before whyte,if he hadn't been allowed to commit fraud to buy us we would still have paid them

The SFA and SPL have the benefit of hindsight and them and you still think it's right to punish us,odd.

[Getstiffed 8,863]

Hindsight is a great thing.

Clearly in hindsight we know Whyte done all this for his own gain, and he will hopefully be dealt with properly in due course.

But I would reckon the not paying £9million of tax and paye while he was here would have eased our spending, probably allowed for the likes of Bedoya, Bocanegra, Wallace etc to be signed last season. Think some of them can be classed as benefits. Specially when we are now congratulating the likes of Wallace for sticking with us.

It was pointed out quite vigorously at the time of those signings that they almost balanced out with funds the club were receiving, had received and were due to receive. Wilson, Adam and Bougies fee most notably.

Its becoming clear now that Whyte never intended to pay--PAYE. As it turns out, if the PAYE had been paid we still would have been just under the 10 million short fall. Point being, those signings would most probably have still taken place.

These are only short term benefits if benefits at all. Even so, we didn't make the CL. We didn't win the league. The clubs reputation has been slandered, quite wrongly in my opinion. If we are found guilty of the "crimes" we are actually charged with I would accept the relevant punishment. However you are asking us to accept punishments that don't fit the alleged crimes. Most have suggested charges and the punishments along with them, which have been conjured up out of thin air.

[T_Cradle85 3]

We managed to pay our bills for 139 years before whyte,if he hadn't been allowed to commit fraud to buy us we would still have paid them

The SFA and SPL have the benefit of hindsight and them and you still think it's right to punish us,odd.

Debatable under Murray, another investigation there may see that sorted.

I never said it was right to punish us, but I find it a bit simple minded not to see why we are being caught up in all of this.

[theySTILLKNOW 80]

Debatable under Murray, another investigation there may see that sorted.

I never said it was right to punish us, but I find it a bit simple minded not to see why we are being caught up in all of this.

It's quite clear what side of the debate your on.

Yes it's "simple minded" to question why we're being punished for being the victims of fraud

[Spacecowboy 92]

with those fellas from Take That getting slated in the papers for doing the film tax thing.....

why hasnt anyone mentioned that an awful lot of septic players are also "Film Producers"

I'm self employed and also an employer, I have an accountant that will get me to pay as little tax as possible (nearly nothing on a 6 figure pay packet), the problem starts to arise if I then instruct my staff on how to pay as little tax as possible.

no one can stop me talking to them and telling them how I do it or what accountant to use, but I think our problem stems from this being club led rather than personally led.

[T_Cradle85 3]

It's quite clear what side of the debate your on.

Yes it's "simple minded" to question why we're being punished for being the victims of fraud

Not what I said/meant.

Do you understand why we are ebing involved in all of this? Or do you simply see it as a Craig Whyte thing, so we shouldn't be remotely involved?

[theySTILLKNOW 80]

Not what I said/meant.

Do you understand why we are ebing involved in all of this? Or do you simply see it as a Craig Whyte thing, so we shouldn't be remotely involved?

Rangers are involved as we are victims of fraud,this clamour to punish us for this is disgusting and will end up in a court.

[T_Cradle85 3]

Rangers are involved as we are victims of fraud,this clamour to punish us for this is disgusting and will end up in a court.

And some of the fraud was done in our name.

There is two different parts of Craig Whytes crimes. The first is in regards to the take over - which rightly so will be pinned completely on him, and we won't be punished for. The second part (put simply) will involve the issues with tax and paye payment during his tenure, which was done in our name.

[Getstiffed 8,863]

And some of the fraud was done in our name.

There is two different parts of Craig Whytes crimes. The first is in regards to the take over - which rightly so will be pinned completely on him, and we won't be punished for. The second part (put simply) will involve the issues with tax and paye payment during his tenure, which was done in our name.

So If I bought and registered a car in your name, then proceeded to commit a series of motor vehicle related crimes; you would go to court and accept all the charges and plead guilty?