Sapphire

Something dodgy about this whole episode.

Lest We Forget

A stunning total - a massive well done to all involved. We are indeed The People.

Fantastic news. A massive well done to all involved in this. Onwards and Upwards.

You were doing allright till that. Uberfan? Thanks. I don't think he is.

The GOAT came, he saw, he contributed nothing except controversy - he's found his level on here. Meanwhile it's onwards and upwards for VB.

The we deserve better campaign was a failed attempt to show sections of it’s membership that it was taking a hard line with a chairman who had muzzled them and refused to speak to them , nothing more…. nothing less It was an unmitigated disater that made the trust sound like a whiney infant. That is your view and you are perfectly entitled to hold it. Mine is that it was vital that at least one Rangers supporters group called the club's board to account for its failures. I may be mistaken, but I was under the impression that the RST had spoken to Sir David Murray a few weeks ago. This would appear to contradict what you are saying. I'm sorry but I fail to see what group is doing this? The board will carry on regardless as things stand. Beyond nit-picking, what on earth is your point here? The board may 'carry on regardless' - although much now will be dictated by the bank. One man owns 92% of the shares and he will take the decisions. The failings of the club's administration in - yet again - racking up a substantial amount of debt were put into the public domain. It is most unlikely that the Scottish media would have done this by themeslves. Should Rangers supporters not be allowed to criticise the club's board where necessary? Are you confusing me with a fan of the chairman? I'm not the one triumphing themselves when nothing has been achieved, as for nit-picking I notice you "nit-picked" this post I made and ignored the one directly after it. I will post it again.. If this is so, why did a trust board ask that the VB protest be changed to focus on Murray and Bain? Even though the protest details had been rubber stamped by the police and BBC it was stated they would support 1 against Murray and Bain even though they agreed with the BBC protest in principal. When it was asked to get behind the BBC protest then sit down and discuss the next step, it was knocked back in a manner that left a lot people unhappy. It seems the failure to manipulate more people for their own agenda didn't go down well. Maybe if the trusts left hand knew what the right was up to.... I cannot possibly comment on details I don't know the truth about. Suffice it to say there are approximately 20 RST boaord members and a single one cannot speak for the board as a whole. You're doing a good job of it

The obsession with the RST and, in particular, Mark Dingwall is unhealthy. Far be it for me to stick up for Mark. He's big enough and ugly enough to do that for himself. However to call him these names when FF is his business, and therefore his livelihood, is plain stupid. No-one forces anyone to buy the fanzine or indeed tee-shirts. And lastly (as 24 has just started) I could easily have got a bunch of my friends to come on here to have a go just like they have done but I have chosen not to. Thanks for conforming the above Cooper. I've asked a few FF admin and RST board members about this, and all have denied what you said. So we are dealing with a business, which is inextricably linked and joined at the hip with the RST. Should a business (your words) be involved and run by a person, who also has all the power within the RST as well? Don't you seriously think there's a conflict of interests here? I'm sure others reading this will be thinking what I am, so I'll go ahead and ask anyway..... If FF is a business and about making money, is the RST the same or is this a voluntary side of the business?

Most of the stuff on this thread about the RST consists of attacks motivated by personal animosity. Complaints about a lack of communication with RST members may have substance, but much of the other stuff boils down to back-biting. The RST can only ever be as strong as the Rangers support wishes it to be. The same goes for other supporters groups. If it is argued that any - or all - of these groups is failing, we have to look at the support as a whole rather than the personalities within. In my view, the Rangers support is simply not sufficiently united or smart enough in a political sense. And, despite all the posturing to the contrary, there are too many ego trips involved. It always boils down to politics, and, the problem I see with that is, it is self serving, not in the best interests of the "people", thats not the RST or whoever, but ALL politics. A brief glance at the news will show that. Questions are not answered, one of the best lines is "we only answer to our members", yet, there are countless members questioning this, as, THEIR questions are not answered. There is ALWAYS something to hide, straight answers not given, which, unsurprisingly, breeds mistrust and suspicion. I have always held the RST at arms length, especially after the resignations, as, it was highly suspicious. Since then, some of their actions have been, well, less than professional, and, come across to the layman as simply an attempt to make certain people more important in the grand scheme of things, more than likely noticed my Murray, hence his dismissiveness of it all. Everything generally comes across as rushed, and, not thought out properly, then, when something is released, such as the follow up statements to the "we deserve better" nonsense, its too little too late, the damage from the first impression was done, and it looks like a change of posture, or, "what we really meant was...", which is never going to have an impact, because they are on the back foot. Someone else mentioned above, something along the lines of "all they have in common is the team on the pitch". Doesnt anyone find that alarming that this is a throwaway line? Should the MAIN thing they have in common be that, along with the supporters? After all, thats what makes the club. A common denominator amongst all. What should be done, is what is best for the club, and, what is best for the supporters, because, ultimately, that is what is best for everyone in the long run. These people and groups, if they want to affect ACTUAL CHANGE, and, have a voice, need to come together. Why do we need multiple groups? 200k in Manchester (more or less), yet the RST membership, from a brief scan of the thread, was 2500? thats pretty much 1% of the number we took down there, and, there are many many more, so, when Murray dissmissed it as a minority, he was correct, the figures show that. There is a common cause, the future and success of Rangers Football Club, not the RSA, not the RST, but RFC! A blind man could see that if fans got together with that in mind, we could affect change, as a whole. Do we need funding for this? Sure, and, if everyone that went to Manchester (to use that figure), put in a tenner, we have £2 MILLION pounds to get going, yet, there are so many more who could help, but will not, because they see self serving groups (even if they arent) who want to raise their own profile, rather than make things better. Why not create the Rangers Supporters Group? Good name eh? And, do things in a positive, proactive manner that ALL fans can get behind. Ways to improve the club, the matchday experience, the relationship between the club and the fans? Regardless of your feelings for the guy, going at Murray saying "we deserve better", or, "I want I want", or, "your a wanker, Murray out" is NOT going to go well, even a ten year old could see that. I deal with directors, CEOs etc all day, every day. Anyone with any kind of business acumen would say the same. You catch more flies with honey. Very well put Sir! I repeat just for the people refusing to listen to common sense and practical thinking. I support the RST and any Rangers related group. I don't support people who bully, smear, tell lies and have egotistical ideas for themselves. I don't support a group of people who refuse to answer emails, join with other Rangers websites and fans groups and who blatantly ignore their own membership. I support anyone who puts Rangers fans and football club, above profit. I support Rangers full stop. The RST are finished in the present form unless change occurs. How and when that happens, I don't know. But change must happen or they will flounder and continue to drift from one shambles to another. That made me laugh I'm glad you found it funny, that's why you are being slated. No answers, no thought process, no reasonable debate, only pedantic and patronising guff. You are finished and you know it. I stated it made me laugh, not that i found it funny I am aware of who did the bullying, it was not Mark Dingwall that's for sure. The RST is not finished because you and a few others think it is Did I mention any particular name Mr Touchy? Your defence of the master is most appreciated at profit towers. Profits before principles!

Most of the stuff on this thread about the RST consists of attacks motivated by personal animosity. Complaints about a lack of communication with RST members may have substance, but much of the other stuff boils down to back-biting. The RST can only ever be as strong as the Rangers support wishes it to be. The same goes for other supporters groups. If it is argued that any - or all - of these groups is failing, we have to look at the support as a whole rather than the personalities within. In my view, the Rangers support is simply not sufficiently united or smart enough in a political sense. And, despite all the posturing to the contrary, there are too many ego trips involved. It always boils down to politics, and, the problem I see with that is, it is self serving, not in the best interests of the "people", thats not the RST or whoever, but ALL politics. A brief glance at the news will show that. Questions are not answered, one of the best lines is "we only answer to our members", yet, there are countless members questioning this, as, THEIR questions are not answered. There is ALWAYS something to hide, straight answers not given, which, unsurprisingly, breeds mistrust and suspicion. I have always held the RST at arms length, especially after the resignations, as, it was highly suspicious. Since then, some of their actions have been, well, less than professional, and, come across to the layman as simply an attempt to make certain people more important in the grand scheme of things, more than likely noticed my Murray, hence his dismissiveness of it all. Everything generally comes across as rushed, and, not thought out properly, then, when something is released, such as the follow up statements to the "we deserve better" nonsense, its too little too late, the damage from the first impression was done, and it looks like a change of posture, or, "what we really meant was...", which is never going to have an impact, because they are on the back foot. Someone else mentioned above, something along the lines of "all they have in common is the team on the pitch". Doesnt anyone find that alarming that this is a throwaway line? Should the MAIN thing they have in common be that, along with the supporters? After all, thats what makes the club. A common denominator amongst all. What should be done, is what is best for the club, and, what is best for the supporters, because, ultimately, that is what is best for everyone in the long run. These people and groups, if they want to affect ACTUAL CHANGE, and, have a voice, need to come together. Why do we need multiple groups? 200k in Manchester (more or less), yet the RST membership, from a brief scan of the thread, was 2500? thats pretty much 1% of the number we took down there, and, there are many many more, so, when Murray dissmissed it as a minority, he was correct, the figures show that. There is a common cause, the future and success of Rangers Football Club, not the RSA, not the RST, but RFC! A blind man could see that if fans got together with that in mind, we could affect change, as a whole. Do we need funding for this? Sure, and, if everyone that went to Manchester (to use that figure), put in a tenner, we have £2 MILLION pounds to get going, yet, there are so many more who could help, but will not, because they see self serving groups (even if they arent) who want to raise their own profile, rather than make things better. Why not create the Rangers Supporters Group? Good name eh? And, do things in a positive, proactive manner that ALL fans can get behind. Ways to improve the club, the matchday experience, the relationship between the club and the fans? Regardless of your feelings for the guy, going at Murray saying "we deserve better", or, "I want I want", or, "your a wanker, Murray out" is NOT going to go well, even a ten year old could see that. I deal with directors, CEOs etc all day, every day. Anyone with any kind of business acumen would say the same. You catch more flies with honey. Very well put Sir! I repeat just for the people refusing to listen to common sense and practical thinking. I support the RST and any Rangers related group. I don't support people who bully, smear, tell lies and have egotistical ideas for themselves. I don't support a group of people who refuse to answer emails, join with other Rangers websites and fans groups and who blatantly ignore their own membership. I support anyone who puts Rangers fans and football club, above profit. I support Rangers full stop. The RST are finished in the present form unless change occurs. How and when that happens, I don't know. But change must happen or they will flounder and continue to drift from one shambles to another. That made me laugh I'm glad you found it funny, that's why you are being slated. No answers, no thought process, no reasonable debate, only pedantic and patronising guff. You are finished and you know it.

Correct again Sir! Why the fear of debate or communication? We can all disagree about the way forward, we can all become emotionally attached and say things in the heat of the moment. After all we all have one thing in common, our love for Rangers. The RST website has still got a headline about Gerry McNee FFS. Why not have something on their website today about the vermin polluting our stadium? People who openly wish to murder the very soldiers who sat in the very same seats the week before? http://www.vanguardbears.co.uk/ Why not come out and say enough is enough, we will not tolerate support for terrorism in our stadium? Why not release a statement congratulating the team on beating the vermin? Why not release a statement wishing Walter and the lads all the best for the run in from the fans? It's easy enough to do, Vanguard, RM and other Rangers websites are doing it, why not the supporters reps? I know and appreciate this is a voluntary position, but so is running Vanguard and RM, yet they mange to do it with help from friends and fellow Bears. We are under attack from the media and politicians in this country, so now is the time for a strong and influential Trust.

Most of the stuff on this thread about the RST consists of attacks motivated by personal animosity. Complaints about a lack of communication with RST members may have substance, but much of the other stuff boils down to back-biting. The RST can only ever be as strong as the Rangers support wishes it to be. The same goes for other supporters groups. If it is argued that any - or all - of these groups is failing, we have to look at the support as a whole rather than the personalities within. In my view, the Rangers support is simply not sufficiently united or smart enough in a political sense. And, despite all the posturing to the contrary, there are too many ego trips involved. It always boils down to politics, and, the problem I see with that is, it is self serving, not in the best interests of the "people", thats not the RST or whoever, but ALL politics. A brief glance at the news will show that. Questions are not answered, one of the best lines is "we only answer to our members", yet, there are countless members questioning this, as, THEIR questions are not answered. There is ALWAYS something to hide, straight answers not given, which, unsurprisingly, breeds mistrust and suspicion. I have always held the RST at arms length, especially after the resignations, as, it was highly suspicious. Since then, some of their actions have been, well, less than professional, and, come across to the layman as simply an attempt to make certain people more important in the grand scheme of things, more than likely noticed my Murray, hence his dismissiveness of it all. Everything generally comes across as rushed, and, not thought out properly, then, when something is released, such as the follow up statements to the "we deserve better" nonsense, its too little too late, the damage from the first impression was done, and it looks like a change of posture, or, "what we really meant was...", which is never going to have an impact, because they are on the back foot. Someone else mentioned above, something along the lines of "all they have in common is the team on the pitch". Doesnt anyone find that alarming that this is a throwaway line? Should the MAIN thing they have in common be that, along with the supporters? After all, thats what makes the club. A common denominator amongst all. What should be done, is what is best for the club, and, what is best for the supporters, because, ultimately, that is what is best for everyone in the long run. These people and groups, if they want to affect ACTUAL CHANGE, and, have a voice, need to come together. Why do we need multiple groups? 200k in Manchester (more or less), yet the RST membership, from a brief scan of the thread, was 2500? thats pretty much 1% of the number we took down there, and, there are many many more, so, when Murray dissmissed it as a minority, he was correct, the figures show that. There is a common cause, the future and success of Rangers Football Club, not the RSA, not the RST, but RFC! A blind man could see that if fans got together with that in mind, we could affect change, as a whole. Do we need funding for this? Sure, and, if everyone that went to Manchester (to use that figure), put in a tenner, we have £2 MILLION pounds to get going, yet, there are so many more who could help, but will not, because they see self serving groups (even if they arent) who want to raise their own profile, rather than make things better. Why not create the Rangers Supporters Group? Good name eh? And, do things in a positive, proactive manner that ALL fans can get behind. Ways to improve the club, the matchday experience, the relationship between the club and the fans? Regardless of your feelings for the guy, going at Murray saying "we deserve better", or, "I want I want", or, "your a wanker, Murray out" is NOT going to go well, even a ten year old could see that. I deal with directors, CEOs etc all day, every day. Anyone with any kind of business acumen would say the same. You catch more flies with honey. Very well put Sir! I repeat just for the people refusing to listen to common sense and practical thinking. I support the RST and any Rangers related group. I don't support people who bully, smear, tell lies and have egotistical ideas for themselves. I don't support a group of people who refuse to answer emails, join with other Rangers websites and fans groups and who blatantly ignore their own membership. I support anyone who puts Rangers fans and football club, above profit. I support Rangers full stop. The RST are finished in the present form unless change occurs. How and when that happens, I don't know. But change must happen or they will flounder and continue to drift from one shambles to another.

No VB members are on or have ever been on the board of the RST. Althgough we do know many of the board members personally and have respect for some of these people who give up their own time for the Rangers cause. We also attended the very first meeting when the RST was discussed and came into being. I'm not sure anyone from VB has any thoughts of being on the board to be honest, and I've never heard anyone expressing a desire to do so. Look let's not get things taken out of perspective here. We support the idea of the RST and we also support some of the people involved in the RST. We also want the Trust to grow, become stronger and more militant in its approach to the enemies of Rangers, whoever and wherever they may be. But you and me and everyone else who supports the Rangers and who have been members of the Trust are being led up the garden path by certain individuals with an agenda and thoughts of personal gain. Look at the website, it says nothing, because it's doing nothing. When was the last time the RST did something which made you sit up and take notice? Should the RST and certain websites have complete control over who says what and when, without the threat of bans looming over that person? Trust board members have been caught smearing fellow Bears on more than one accasion. They have consistently lied about membership numbers and refuse to answer any emails on the subject - why? 5 board members resigned due to certain individuals improper behaviour - is that what we want? I want a supporters body that stands up and defends all things Rangers, where no personal gain is involved and no tyranical bully boys can threaten and control what people want to say. If Bears are happy with the present RST, that's fine by me and I will strongly disagree. That's democracy for you and everyone had different opinions. I only became involved in this thread because of fabricated lies from Cooper and most of my threads have said very clearly, I support and want the RST to improve. But they won't under the present board. They now have less than 700 from the dizzy heights of 2500 - why is that? I would also like to apologise to the Rangers Media members and admin for airing this nonsense in public. However I hope everyone understands my reasons for doing so? Feel free to criticise or disagree with anything and everything I say, but don't lie about us on a public forum. Mate I agree that the RST is far from ideal. My main complaint is lack of communication with us its members. However every thread that starts about the RST falls into petty name calling, with no-one putting up concrete evidence of wrong doing by either side. Saudi I'm not sure what's been said on other threads and I can only apologise for responding in an abrupt but truthful manner. But as I say, we will not allow someone to go on a fellow Rangers website and tell lies about us and our behaviour. Read any of the Vanguard articles and tell me we don't stick up for our club and support. One or two nasty individuals and that's all we're talking about here, will attempt to smear anyone who gets in the way of profit and power. However they have came across a different beast in Vanguardbears and they know it.

No VB members are on or have ever been on the board of the RST. Althgough we do know many of the board members personally and have respect for some of these people who give up their own time for the Rangers cause. We also attended the very first meeting when the RST was discussed and came into being. I'm not sure anyone from VB has any thoughts of being on the board to be honest, and I've never heard anyone expressing a desire to do so. Look let's not get things taken out of perspective here. We support the idea of the RST and we also support some of the people involved in the RST. We also want the Trust to grow, become stronger and more militant in its approach to the enemies of Rangers, whoever and wherever they may be. But you and me and everyone else who supports the Rangers and who have been members of the Trust are being led up the garden path by certain individuals with an agenda and thoughts of personal gain. Look at the website, it says nothing, because it's doing nothing. When was the last time the RST did something which made you sit up and take notice? Should the RST and certain websites have complete control over who says what and when, without the threat of bans looming over that person? Trust board members have been caught smearing fellow Bears on more than one accasion. They have consistently lied about membership numbers and refuse to answer any emails on the subject - why? 5 board members resigned due to certain individuals improper behaviour - is that what we want? I want a supporters body that stands up and defends all things Rangers, where no personal gain is involved and no tyranical bully boys can threaten and control what people want to say. If Bears are happy with the present RST, that's fine by me and I will strongly disagree. That's democracy for you and everyone had different opinions. I only became involved in this thread because of fabricated lies from Cooper and most of my threads have said very clearly, I support and want the RST to improve. But they won't under the present board. They now have less than 700 from the dizzy heights of 2500 - why is that? I would also like to apologise to the Rangers Media members and admin for airing this nonsense in public. However I hope everyone understands my reasons for doing so? Feel free to criticise or disagree with anything and everything I say, but don't lie about us on a public forum.

Going on a subcrawl is a crime now is it? Lets not have a social life eh? The RST has never had a subcrawl but if someone posts it on here it must be fact. Please forgive my daft sense of humour. It was supposed to infer that the RST and FF were one and the same.