maineflyer

I heard that supercilious twat TWB was floundering and had to take a look. Long ago gave up using RM on a regular basis due to the stink of pseudo bears such as TWB, Manticore and the General. How RM admin continues to tolerate their endless spoiling tactics is beyond me but thankfully there are much better forums around. RM has finally become a clone of FF and therefore a complete waste of time for serious bears. Well done to all decent bears who challenged these pompous, self-serving arseholes but you also know their egos are way too inflated to ever treat you with anything but contempt. My advice is move on and leave RM to those who aren't welcome elsewhere.

I was doing a wee edit after posting yesterday an somehow managed to edit out the entire article, ! Reposting now WITH the words......... This is turning into farce. We all know songs are sung by crowds as an expression of solidarity but when you think about it, what business is it of UEFA to judge the songs or the singing. What next - marks out of ten for lyrics and melody? A morality version of Eurovision? If public morality has now become the province of football authorities, is it only be judged in terms of the collective voice of crowds. Would Jim Torbet abusing children have led to a ban on Celtic admitting anyone under the age of twelve to watch their games. Or the Catholic church systematically buggering children prevent the participation of catholic coaches or managers throughout Europe? Did the mass murder and ethnic cleansing of Bosnians see UEFA banning the Croatian or Serbian FA's from Euro Championships? Did Franco's systematic brutality of his citizens see Spanish clubs banned while Real Madrid were winning all those European Cups? Is having an owner involved in dubious business deals an afront to UEFA's moral code? Are convicted criminals to be banned from attending football games? Are players convicted of breaking the law to be suspended? Or Ginger haired managers suspended for beating their wife perhaps, where does UEFA stand on wife beating? Surely UEFA is a body to administer the game of football in Europe. Surely we already have governments, legislatures, police and courts to establish codes of behavior and deal with offences against the public interest. Where in the legal framework of any European country does it accommodate UEFA to act as judge and jury on the conduct of it's citizens? UEFA is effectively serving punishment on private companies on the basis that criminal law is being broken on it's premises by individuals who are not employed by it and have no contractual responsibility to it. And UEFA is doing this, not on the evidence of it's own police service interpreting it's own laws, but on the reports of unaccredited and unaccountable individuals and organizations, sometimes with a clear conflict of interest. In this part of the world enormous effort is placed upon ensuring democratic governance. We willingly rush to war in order to assure our democratic rights and award Nobel Prizes to those who foster democracy across the world. The exception appears to be our willingness to stand aside while a footballing authority intercedes in the legal affairs of our citizens and corporate organizations. We demand no democratic credentials of UEFA, there is no accountability required, and no democratic participation by the individuals being judged by it. I have no problem with UEFA judging the conduct of it's constituent clubs and national FA's. I have a huge problem with UEFA stepping outside its footballng perimeter and judging the conduct of private citizens who are not members, employees or owners of those clubs. That, in my estimation, is a matter reserved exclusively to the national and EU courts. If I am to be excluded from attending a football game on the decision of UEFA, where do I seek redress for the constraint of my freedoms? The answer of course is that I don't. I am punished after being judged by a body with no jurisdiction over me and without ever having been convicted of any offence. This might seem to be a pointless perspective but I think it lies at the heart of the entire madness and is the crack though which personal interest is able to leverage collective behaviour. It's why we go to such enormous lengths to guard our democracies. At least that's how the script is usually written. The rise of the sporting authorities, their growing wealth and political influence, and their impact on nations and citizens alike is not limited to football either. Perhaps the best example of why someone urgently needs to stand on UEFA's toes is the mind boggling corruption of the Olympic movement. In the history of western society and with the possible exception of the catholic church and FIFA, has there ever been a less accountable organization that wielded more power and influence than the IOC? If this is the template that UEFA is now embracing then it is perhaps no surprise that it has little interest in respecting the rights of people like you and me. We all realize there are indeed issues to be dealt with but every one of us needs to think seriously about the deeper and more insidious game being played by those who are in a position to threaten something altogether more offensive than the songs being sung at football matches.

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Why would the police give lists of banned songs to Rangers and celtic? Are they expecting the two management teams to be singing these songs in the dugouts? Why wouldn't the police simply give the lists to the press and broadcast media so the banned songs could be made known to the public who (presumably) are likely to sing them at football matches. Are the police genuinely stupid or is this another cartload of half truth and bollocks?

You might want to ask yourself, why bother? Because if you haven't boycotted when it might have made some difference to the decisions that led us to this mess, what's the point when it's too damned late?

Really? Make that two then.

Well General, I suppose the least I've done is to get one sanctimonius prick to join me on this MB. I'd hoped to change some views but in your case, obviously not.

The banner was a huge error of judgement. Pity more effort hadn't gone into producing a banner targeted at Murray leading us into this fucking mess in the first place.

You're right about the "stepping in to help" - unfortunate choice of words. As for FF, haven't been their since seventh banning three years ago .... Bastards!

It's been my contention all along that the Rangers support, collectively, have failed to play their part in assuring the good governance of the club. From some distant corner the notion arose that it was the board's job to manage and our job to turn up and be served. This was music to the ears of a corrupt leadership, who were able to faff and fudge without scrutiny or accountability. The current shambles is at least as much our doing as Murray's. I can understand why this isn't a popular proposition but I'm damned if there's a decent case to be made against it. Which is why, for many years, I've written so vehemently against the stupidity and cowardice of the failed RST, the one organization in a position to exert pressure and scrutiny on Murray's performance. Hiding behind the futile mantra of fan ownership, a fan on the board, the RST has badly failed it's own tiny membership, the wider support, and the very club whose name it carries. My criticism wasn't and isn't personal to individual RST board members but it would have helped if some of the more well-intentioned on the RST board had shown some guts while they were part if it, instead of pontificating and squabbling after leaving. For those still there I can offer only contempt. Now I see other fans holding moronic banners at Ibrox yesterday, some of them not unconected with the failed RST, challenging the one man prepared to think about stepping in to help the club, while offering the same compliant silence towards David Murray who led us into the mess that now threatens our very existence. The utter, pathetic stupidity of the Rangers support seems to know no limit and offer no hope of better things to come. What the hell is wrong with us? Why is it that those with apparently little or no skill to create or implement worthwhile strategies are the ones who always promote themselves into positions of prominence? And, above all, why has the ordinary Rangers fan become so unwilling to be take personal responsibility for his/her club, become so apparently complicit in the problems besieging us? Whatever fate awaits Rangers, if we don't change, if we don't start demanding change of ourselves, then there will be no improvement ahead. We must stop defending mediocrity and set our sights much higher ... and not just on fans' websites!

It was obviously a statement born in ignorance ..... which would be entirely typical of that particular viewpoint. It also showed more than a hint of stupidity, which is much less forgivable.

How can there be any takeover? The RST hasn't claimed credit for arranging it.

The issue isn't whether TBB is banned but whether it was banned by UEFA and whether there will be any sanctions imposed on THE CLUB if the song is sung. Personally, it seems obvious the whole UEFA issue is bullshit and anyone who cares to sing the song should just get on with it. There is no UEFA threat. There is only a certain group of people who benefit from pulling the wool over supporter eyes, chief amongst whom is the bastard David Murray.

In the blue corner we have the diehard dweller in the past, refusing to acknowledge the changes that have taken place over the last twenty years. Prepared to keep on singing songs that, while reflecting what he wants the club to stand for, might result in points deductions or worse. He's seen as a knuckle dragger with both feet firmly planted in the past. In the red corner we have the worried man, ever fearful and willing to swap principle for expediency, convinced that the enemy has right on it's side and we are our own worst enemy. The worried man is introspective and afraid, seeing shadows within shadows. He likes to live on Internet forums where he cannot be seen. He believes everything the club says and is utterly conformist. The dweller in the past or the worried man? Which are you? I know which one I am.