Blue Da Ba Dee

Out of curiosity, what does 'bottle it' mean? Is it a scottish saying or something to do with just Aberdeen?

Me and PZJ are both lifetime Celtic season ticket holders, we spend weekends in the Celtic park looking through their documents, that's how we know stuff about them. You guys must've been hit in the head too many times if you think that googling a celtic annual report and looking up a few lines is complicated stuff.

They pay it each year to preference shareholders, it's a bit over half a mil annually depending on how many of these shareholders want the dividend (they can choose cash or extra shares instead of cash).

Not sure we disagree on anything really. I thought you were saying they are in a bad spot financiallly because of debts, but I probably misunderstood. Yep, our loan sucked, their loans look like great deals, as far as I can tell from their annual report.

Their bank loan rates seem great, right? Something like 1.5-2.2% annual interest, it seems. Also it looks that they've reduced bank debt by around 3 mil in a year to 7 mil. They also say that about 6 mil has been invested into Celtic park over the last two years, but like you say, who knows how much of that was their own money. But overall they do seem like an organization that could've spent a bit more on players but chose to spend elsewhere. I know some people say that their report only shows half the picture and there are big hidden problems, and maybe that's true, I can't speak about that. I think in general too much is made about using assets as securities, it's ok to use them to get decent interest rates, that goes for us and them and big English clubs, etc. I think our big problem was that we gave up 26% of merchandize profit and all those securities for just a 5 mil loan. Maybe nothing better could be done back then, but still, those terms suck. In theory it was a no interest loan, but 26% of merchandize profit for a 5 mil loan isn't no interest, it's high interest. We gave up a bunch of securities over real estate and even securities over our brand and a bunch of revenue just to get 5 mil.

Don't they owe 7 mil to the bank? At least that's what they seemed to say in their annual report. Of course there are also many convertible shares, which is kind of like a loan from shareholders, and a tool for Desmond to get money out of Celtic.

Wait, are you guys sure that everything is done for public money, even Celtic statues, that big banner with Celtic players that covers all the stadium, future standing area transformation? (Not saying it isn't, I'm just surprised to hear and sucks for Rangers if true) I wonder how their current payroll compares to Maribor, Molde, the Polish team, etc. Teams that they lost against on their way to CL. I suspect that they already outspend these teams by far. So I think it's hard to say if more investment would reap those Euro rewards, if they are already losing to teams that they outspend by far. I think it's more that they probably need a change in overall strategy --- less gambling on young guys, keeping good prospects longer. They have smart financial guys, as far as making owners money, just not ambitious on the pitch.

Well I read Celtic annual reports, so I must be a Celtic. Just like everyone who reads Rangers annual reports is a 100% Rangers supporter, as we all know, right.

The liquidation plus UEFA fair play, both are great excuses for them right now, their every annual report keeps repeating those. In reality, they give a good deal of money to their shareholders via dividends and convertible loans each year, plus they mostly gamble on buying raw prospects that either bust or get sold. They also seem to invest some money into the stadium and its surroundings, which isn't a bad thing. In reality, they could build a more competitive squad even under current circumstances, they just don't feel the need to do it and they have their excuses that they can give to fans. "Look at the Rangers, we are being smarter" and "UEFA won't let us."

I tbh wonder how they would've voted if that vote was close. If my memory doesn't fail me, the Celtic were dead silent for a long while about how they are going to vote. I felt that they pretty much waited, saw that other teams are going to vote against Rangers anyway, and then they voted against too, to appease their supporters. It just seems to me that Desmond and Lawwell don't really give two shits about emotions and Rangers vs. Celtic, all they care about is the financial bottom line, and they likely would've voted for the Rangers if that vote wasn't hopeless.

They can't get into the Champions' league anyway, so how much can we hurt them? We can't keep them out of the Europa league. I think that we would help them financially a lot, better ticket sales, merchandize, F&B etc. I think they are hurting financially without us. When we get there, they will eventually have to build a more competitive squad, but they'll also get more revenue. I think all the Celtic tough talk about us is just posturing and PR to their supporters, in reality their business people are hoping that we get back ASAP.

You have a good point, never thought about geography of London.

I'm not as suprised about Everton, since they never get relegated. I mean, American clubs (like NBA and such) can sell for over 1 bil USD today with lower reveues than Everton. Plus Everton is one of the more followed clubs in the USA, and it was considered a big 5 English club not that long ago, it probably has potential to grow. It's a bit more suprising to see such big figures with Crystal Palace, since they are more of a fringe club. I sometimes wondered why no one is buying Everton despite them supposedly looking for buyers all the time.

To be fair, 100 mil deal doesn't necessarily mean that the 70 percent share is worth that much now. It could be in part a share issue and some of the money gets invested into the club. Heck, when Sarver offered 20 mil deal for 51 percent of Rangers, part of that number was a short term loan. Who knows what's in the 100 mil number.

Philadelphia 76ers owner? Watch Crystal Palace break all the football losing records now.