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Fight back against Lloyds TSB Group


gandhisflip

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The situation seems to be that Lloyds are now holding Rangers to ransom for our debt approaching £30m. Given that Lloyds HBOS are 43% owned by the UK Government on behalf of the taxpayer and that the same bank are likely to face investigation by the Monopolies and Mergers Commission i think we have strong grounds for a united action against the bank to remind them of the consequences for them if they cause Rangers further diifficulties. Here's some outline proposals for how we can do this:-

- HBoS have approx 30% of the Scottish banking market yet are desperate short of capital (ie customers money) on their balance sheets and to leverage for further loans. Rangers have a minimum of 300,000 fans/strong empathisers in Scotland alone - let's organise a campaign where we threaten to withdraw our capital in the forms of current accounts, savings and any investments.

What would this meant to the bank? If even by conservative estimates we said there were 40,000 Rangers fans with Lloyds/HBoS accounts willing to change banks. Again if we took a very conservative average of current/savings accounts held by Rangers fans at say £2000. This figure will likely be much higher when you consider wealthier fans with perhaps tens of thousands in the bank. That's an £80m hit to the money they have to play with and massively outweoghs the £30m which Rangers owe and are currently paying back with significant interest.

- Any fans who own HBoS or Lloyds shares. A co-ordinated sell-off at the same date and time to cause some damage to the share price and market cap of Lloyds HBoS.

- Petitions and letters being fired off from fans based around Europe to the European Commission who will be investigating the Llyods HBoS merger. If we can manage tens of thousands of objections based on a template letter we can cause them no end of bother.

- Flood UK papers with letters of complaint about service received by Lloyds/HBOS customers, write letters to local politicians and generally make like as uncomfortable as possible for a bank struggling to hold onto customers as it is.

It makes no sense for Lloyds to look to make some of the debt money back in a fire-sale as this makes the chances of them receiving the full amount back with Rangers not being a viable option for investment. Let's start making some noise on this.

If i'm reading the reports coming out correctly it seems Rangers are available for £30m or the cost of paying off the debt. Again this could be a big plus as the club is more affordable than it's ever likely to be but Lloyds can't be allowed to force us to sell off all our players and play a youth team.

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Zamora - how do i miss the point completely? Rangers have a perfectly good agreement with the bank to repay money they've borrowed at a nice interest rate for the bank. As they have massively fecked up however they've now changed the rules and are taking their ball back. Now announcing a fire sale and selling off all our best assets at much reduced prices as they are asking might raise a few million in the short term but will cripple the club, lose season ticket revenue and European cash - and all because of their knee jerk reaction.

I think it's you that doesn't understand the implications of what's going on?

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I am verging on going completely off topic but being a Rangers fan and one that has researched the banking world from an alternative angle that you do not hear about......

Bankers are complete wankers and if people feel that the Powers That Be who run these are doing nothing worng I would urge people to do a little research into them all, they are the ones that has caused the world wide downturn and to shock you further it is being engineered to take the public's money and push forward an agenda. You really need to look into it and this is not the place for me to discuss it as its off topic but you can imagine my horror when I heard the banks are involved.

The government is dependant on the bank of England for money, tax payer money pays the interest to the Bank of England which is not a government department, it is privately owned by the banking elite IE Rothschild Family. They print our money not the government and then charge us for the privilege. Likewise stateside where the federal reserve is privately owned by the Rokerfella family who are in partnership with the Rothschilds.

All banks are connected bank and those that are not are bought over when a crash occurs to gain more power for them.

Ok I shall stop there and may post in an off topic section if people are interested in this type of thing.

Basically I want the banks out of my club as they do more harm than good.

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The bank cannot change the terms of any loan arbitrarily, they can assess the situation if the terms of the loan or overdraft are not met, that is unable to be serviced by the debtor. I fully understand that you would like to, as has been happening over recent years, create a rosy picture by creative accounting, and twist the indigenous Scottish bankers to admire the creativity. It is a different ball game now TSB have no real affiliation to Rangers FC, they are just another corporate customer, who is in financial meltdown, the bank as anyone would, are looking to get THEIR money back, as is their remit under law...simple equation really, if you borrow don't be surprised to have to meet that borrowing.

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Zamora - how do i miss the point completely? Rangers have a perfectly good agreement with the bank to repay money they've borrowed at a nice interest rate for the bank. As they have massively fecked up however they've now changed the rules and are taking their ball back. Now announcing a fire sale and selling off all our best assets at much reduced prices as they are asking might raise a few million in the short term but will cripple the club, lose season ticket revenue and European cash - and all because of their knee jerk reaction.

I think it's you that doesn't understand the implications of what's going on?

yes rangers had a perfectly good agreement, then they made an arse of it in kaunas and that perfectly good agreement of say 25mill maybe was left behind and the club went INTO AN UNATHORISED OVERDRAFT

the banks just want to make sure that we as a club have a long term solution in place to clear this

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I am verging on going completely off topic but being a Rangers fan and one that has researched the banking world from an alternative angle that you do not hear about......

Bankers are complete wankers and if people feel that the Powers That Be who run these are doing nothing worng I would urge people to do a little research into them all, they are the ones that has caused the world wide downturn and to shock you further it is being engineered to take the public's money and push forward an agenda. You really need to look into it and this is not the place for me to discuss it as its off topic but you can imagine my horror when I heard the banks are involved.

The government is dependant on the bank of England for money, tax payer money pays the interest to the Bank of England which is not a government department, it is privately owned by the banking elite IE Rothschild Family. They print our money not the government and then charge us for the privilege. Likewise stateside where the federal reserve is privately owned by the Rokerfella family who are in partnership with the Rothschilds.

All banks are connected bank and those that are not are bought over when a crash occurs to gain more power for them.

Ok I shall stop there and may post in an off topic section if people are interested in this type of thing.

Basically I want the banks out of my club as they do more harm than good.

Back to the drawing board ryanon.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The Bank of England is the central bank of the United Kingdom and was established as a corporate body by Royal Charter under the Bank of England Act 1694. The Bank was nationalised on 1 March 1946, and gained operational independence to set interest rates in 1997 (the Bank of England Act 1998 Part II sets out the responsibilities and objectives of the Bank in relation to monetary policy).

The Bank is a public sector institution, wholly-owned by the government, but accountable to Parliament. The entire capital of the Bank is, in fact, held by the Treasury solicitor on behalf of HM Treasury. Each year, the Bank is required to submit its Report and Accounts to Parliament, via the Chancellor of the Exchequer. For more information you may be interested to see the Bank’s latest Report and Accounts, which can be found on our website at:

www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/annualreport/index.htm

As to the supposed ‘Rothschild’ connection, I don’t know why people should think that the family own us. But a number of the Rothschilds have served on the Bank’s Court of Directors over the years.

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Zamorra - the terms of the loan are being met however. The bank is calling in the cash early as they have made a pig's ear of their business and are reliant on taxpayers money to continue to exist. Do you work for them?

Rangers with the wage bill slashed and record CL revenue are in the Profit and Loss shape they've been for some years. The wage bill is now likely between £22-25m and we're earning a gross of around £17.5m from CL participation this year.

Now given Rangers are in the position to pay back the bank over time why are they now demanding instant payback? They are acting like irresponsible highwayman and it's the banks (bailed out by the taxpayer) that are prolonging this recession by refusing to provide credit to many businesses and using our cash to shore up their balance sheets.

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http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-ne...angers-1.928574

Rangers’ banker has threatened to put the football club into administration in a dramatic intervention to tackle its mounting debts.

Lloyds Banking Group issued the ultimatum to the club’s shocked board as the only alternative after it initially rejected a “devastating” business plan based on swingeing cuts.

The Herald can today reveal the extent of the turmoil at Ibrox that has left Rangers under the control of its banker. Lloyds has placed Donald Muir, who helped rescue Northern Rock, on to the board as its representative.

It can also be revealed that Dave King, the Glasgow-born multi-millionaire and former investor in the club, now based in South Africa, is the leading contender to buy Rangers. He has opened negotiations but is having difficulties in striking a deal for the club.

It is believed the price the bank wants for Rangers is £30 million, equal to the club’s total debt.

Sources close to the club told The Herald last night: “The business plan from the bank will only do one thing – strangle the club slowly. A new owner is a must or else Rangers will be in dire straits on and off the pitch.

“The board tried to fight it as much as it could, but was told it would be placed into administration. The effects of the business plan will be devastating.

“Dave King wants to buy Rangers, and there are others expressing interest, but the bank wants a premium price of £1 for £1 in terms of the debt so nothing is imminent in terms of a deal.

“Its stance is surprising when, across the country, it is selling off assets at 25p, 30p or 40p to the pound in terms of debt.

“But because this is Rangers, it is obviously viewing it differently. Maybe it feels wealthy fans will let their hearts rule their heads, but all the while the club is now entering dangerous grounds.”

There is also interest from businessmen in the west of Scotland, who could combine to add their resources to those of Mr King, or make their own moves to buy Rangers.

Former chairman Sir David Murray, who remained majority shareholder after he stood down on August 26, is no longer involved in making key decisions.

Mr Muir, who was placed on the board of Rangers nine days ago at the bank’s insistence, is now effectively running the club.

He has been put in to oversee an immediate attempt to reduce debts, which would include the sale of star players over the coming months subject to the bank’s approval, with no replacements.

The bank’s plan was put to the Rangers board this month and shocked its members, including new chairman Alistair Johnston and chief executive Martin Bain, who believe the club has to be kept as attractive as possible to lure a new owner or investor.

The board refused to accept the business plan the bank put in front of them.

However, they were told that Rangers would be put into administration – which would probably allow the bank to recover its cash – if the plan was not accepted by Friday, October 16. Later that day, Mr Muir was confirmed as a board member.

In the aftermath of Saturday’s match against Hibernian, manager Walter Smith admitted the bank – which is 43% owned by the taxpayer and now controls the Bank of Scotland brand – was effectively in charge.

Lloyds Banking Group said at the weekend: “The bank continues to be very supportive of both the club and the board as they manage the business through the more difficult economic conditions currently prevailing.”

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Zamorra - Rangers have terms in place with the bank but as is the case with corporate finance terms are up for review every few years. What's unreasonable is the bank moving from a sensible payment plan to one that will cripple the club we love for a small short term gain for them.

By that measure weare well within our rights to exert what power over them we do have to ensure the club aren't shafted.

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I dont know much about the technical side of this with the banks etc, but if you ask me having a bank in control of the club is obviously a bad decision. All the bank cares about is money, not about the club and not about the fans, or the people. Has no one seen Mary Poppins for Christ sake!!!

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You appear to miss the point completely, as Wattie said, the bank have done nothing wrong.

Is walter smith in a position to make that call ?

He is the manager, so he is in a better position than you or I, unless of course you wish to question his motives, honesty or ability or all three, I for one have no intention of doing so.

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Zamorra - the terms of the loan are being met however. The bank is calling in the cash early as they have made a pig's ear of their business and are reliant on taxpayers money to continue to exist. Do you work for them?

Rangers with the wage bill slashed and record CL revenue are in the Profit and Loss shape they've been for some years. The wage bill is now likely between £22-25m and we're earning a gross of around £17.5m from CL participation this year.

Now given Rangers are in the position to pay back the bank over time why are they now demanding instant payback? They are acting like irresponsible highwayman and it's the banks (bailed out by the taxpayer) that are prolonging this recession by refusing to provide credit to many businesses and using our cash to shore up their balance sheets.

garbage mate, absolute garbage

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The bottom line is........we need a buyer & fast.

We are dieing a slow death just now, leading to stagnation on the park with no competition for places.

No enthusism from the top down & a dirty banker on our board.

This whole saga is now affecting everyone.

I can see now how SDM left.

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You appear to miss the point completely, as Wattie said, the bank have done nothing wrong.

Is walter smith in a position to make that call ?

He is the manager, so he is in a better position than you or I, unless of course you wish to question his motives, honesty or ability or all three, I for one have no intention of doing so.

Walter is in a position to comment on tema matters not on how a bank has behaved towards Rangers, he expressed his opinion and his motives are pretty clear to me.

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Yet another pointless thread. More unfounded speculation stitching together myths, half-truths and some spurious facts to paint a dire picture. Leave it alone, that sort of thing is for those more experienced history re-writers on the other side of the city. :anguish:

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You appear to miss the point completely, as Wattie said, the bank have done nothing wrong.

Is walter smith in a position to make that call ?

Walter would have been advsied by the board to say what he said

You think Walter was saying what he said with the clubs blessing...interesting....

100%...Smith is an experience man, Are you niaive enough to think he never planned to say what he said??

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