A final farewell to David Murray

[Weebawbees 1]

I find it remarkable that despite the dire financial circumstances our club fings itself it in....some can continue to lavish praise or jump to the defence of the individual who is responsible for it.

This thread would make interesting reading in a few months time if the club fails to attract a buyer in the summer and the ominous predictions Walter has suggested befall us.

I find it remarkable that despite the truly unique circumstances we find ourselves in economically, that you still find it acceptable to take the moral high ground and blame our club's majority shareholder for where we are, despite the fact that he has presided over the most successful period in our history.

The club is in the dire financial position it is because the whole western economy is fucked as a result of the banking mess. Not because of SDM's management (although if he had a crystal ball then yes, you could have lobbed that at him too).

To blame SDM in the manner you are doing is ignorant and you know it - but you clearly have an agenda and the current plight the man in the street, the club, the nation and the global economy faces, clearly entitles you to think that you can pin the blame on the door of David Murray.

Pathetic.

Is there any lie you wouldn't tell to try to restore your hero's reputation?

oh dear.

[krisboyuk 6]

I might not be too happy with the current financial situation Rangers find themselves in but you cant just look at that and judge Sir David Murray.

The was I see it, he allowed me to see Gazza, Laudrup, van Bronckhorst, Albertz, de Boer, Numan… etc. He paid for Murray park, has a large part to do with Gers having the fantastic stadium they currently do.

If you asked me when I was 10 and say “look you can see some brilliant Gers teams in the next few years, world -class players and have you’re team the envy of most in Europe but it will mean at the end of it money will be tight for a bit?” What you think my answer is going to be. I am grateful to Sir David for allowing me to see Gers teams, that at the time I was too young to appreciate, was probably above the standard they could have been,

So would you swap all those good times, all hes built and now gave Gers just because we have been finally struggling for a few year (but still winning!!!!)??? Anyone that calls Murray a “coward” and such need to take a long hard look at themselves. In many ways he was one the best thing to ever happen to Gers, in others hes been pish. But he isn’t Hitler! Respect what he gave us because I would bet good money we will NEVER have another chairman give us that amount of his own cash and time.

[Bluedell 14]

The club is in the dire financial position it is because the whole western economy is fucked as a result of the banking mess. Not because of SDM's management (although if he had a crystal ball then yes, you could have lobbed that at him too).

To blame SDM in the manner you are doing is ignorant and you know it - but you clearly have an agenda and the current plight the man in the street, the club, the nation and the global economy faces, clearly entitles you to think that you can pin the blame on the door of David Murray.

Pathetic.

So he overspent. So he overstretched himself and he's getting shafted for it now. And you want to stick the knife in even though he's paying for it personally. And then some.

You are contradicting yourself. Your second statement is correct and your first one is not. He overspent which resulted in our current problems. Nothing to do with the banking mess.

We had our lending limits agreed with the bank before the banking crisis. Our overspending occured before the banking crisis. It was the financial management of David Murray that took us to the limit of our banking facility last season. It was the financial management of David Murray that put the club at risk.

This was the second time under his stewardship that he has done that to us, and proved to the bank that they could not trust him to run the club and as such they were forced to step in and impose restrictions on us.

It's also the second time that he has walked away from his position when times got tough.

[Bluedell 14]

I might not be too happy with the current financial situation Rangers find themselves in but you cant just look at that and judge Sir David Murray.

Err, yes you can.

The was I see it, he allowed me to see Gazza, Laudrup, van Bronckhorst, Albertz, de Boer, Numan… etc. He paid for Murray park, has a large part to do with Gers having the fantastic stadium they currently do.

I'd agree with your first sentence, but I'd argue that it was dave King's mkoney that paid for Murray Park and not SDM's. It's also a fact that little of Murray's money was spent on the stadium.

I

f you asked me when I was 10 and say “look you can see some brilliant Gers teams in the next few years, world -class players and have you’re team the envy of most in Europe but it will mean at the end of it money will be tight for a bit?” What you think my answer is going to be. I am grateful to Sir David for allowing me to see Gers teams, that at the time I was too young to appreciate, was probably above the standard they could have been,

So would you swap all those good times, all hes built and now gave Gers just because we have been finally struggling for a few year (but still winning!!!!)??? Anyone that calls Murray a “coward” and such need to take a long hard look at themselves. In many ways he was one the best thing to ever happen to Gers, in others hes been pish. But he isn’t Hitler! Respect what he gave us because I would bet good money we will NEVER have another chairman give us that amount of his own cash and time.

He hasn't given as much money to the club as most think. The £50m was to pay off a bank debt that he was responsible for creating.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

You are becoming increasingly amusing weebaws. I see myself and my good friend M are now "a type".....we are transparent...jealous....we attempt to impose our moral authority in this forum. And furthermore we apparently want to "stick the knife" into SDM.....

However the creme de resistance must be your extra sensory ability to predict our voting intentions at the forthcoming elections...truly remarkable. You should make yourself available to the BBC....they could put you up there alongside the famous swingometer...."And now its over to Weebaws to see how this key marginal will vote"

Your problem....other than your lying (which I will come to in a moment) is your penchant for putting labels and making assumptions about people. I have no doubt from your descriptive adjectives in previous posts that you would classify me as a Murray hater. I am not. Neither am I a Murray lover. It allows me to remain objective towards the facts....something which you appear to be incapable of. I notice Bluedell has highlighted your most recent contradiction of yourself....is Bluedell now a "type" ?

What I would say about SDM is that during his tenure he has tried to do his best for Rangers Football club. At times however the risks he took were considerable...so much so that he jeopardised the financial stability of our club.

The failure of our club to operate effectively is not down to as you have tried to suggest....the collapse of the world banks but the amount of money which we borrowed and which he sanctioned. Our debt was unserviceable and was and still is crippling us. Have you forgotten the £80 million debt which was the catalyst to the most recent shares issue ? That was well before the banks collapse. Its simple housekeeping...we were spending more than we were ever capable of generating.

Our club has been reaping the cost of this for several seasons now...initially it manifested itself with players such as Egil...managers scraping the transfer barrel..to the extent now that the current manager (operating without a contract) cant even scrape the transfer barrel.

The bank now direct the business of Rangers FC - therefore decisions are made not in the best interests of Rangers FC....but in the best interests of the bank. Such has been the failure of SDM at a business level of the club that the bank no longer trust us to manage our own affairs.

Have a look around Weebaws...other clubs are not operating like this.

So pardon me for having the temerity to refuse to lavish praise on the individual who is responsible for our current plight.

[CanadianBacon 2,088]

I'd sum up Murray's tenure thus.

The first decade - brilliant.

The last decade - Hell.

This season's title win will be our first back-to-back title wins in 10 years.

Surely even the most ardent Murray supporter will cringe at that statistic in our two-horse league?

I wish him well in the remainder of his life.....but, the sooner he's gone the better.

[jjcale27 46]

good riddance to murray

[Johnson 27]

According to The Sunday Times Rich List 2010, Sir David has lost £390m in a year and in now worth £110million.

Mind you, I wouldn't mind being worth a 110th of that.

[Weebawbees 1]

You are becoming increasingly amusing weebaws. I see myself and my good friend M are now "a type".....we are transparent...jealous....we attempt to impose our moral authority in this forum. And furthermore we apparently want to "stick the knife" into SDM.....

However the creme de resistance must be your extra sensory ability to predict our voting intentions at the forthcoming elections...truly remarkable. You should make yourself available to the BBC....they could put you up there alongside the famous swingometer...."And now its over to Weebaws to see how this key marginal will vote"

Your problem....other than your lying (which I will come to in a moment) is your penchant for putting labels and making assumptions about people. I have no doubt from your descriptive adjectives in previous posts that you would classify me as a Murray hater. I am not. Neither am I a Murray lover. It allows me to remain objective towards the facts....something which you appear to be incapable of. I notice Bluedell has highlighted your most recent contradiction of yourself....is Bluedell now a "type" ?

What I would say about SDM is that during his tenure he has tried to do his best for Rangers Football club. At times however the risks he took were considerable...so much so that he jeopardised the financial stability of our club.

The failure of our club to operate effectively is not down to as you have tried to suggest....the collapse of the world banks but the amount of money which we borrowed and which he sanctioned. Our debt was unserviceable and was and still is crippling us. Have you forgotten the £80 million debt which was the catalyst to the most recent shares issue ? That was well before the banks collapse. Its simple housekeeping...we were spending more than we were ever capable of generating.

Our club has been reaping the cost of this for several seasons now...initially it manifested itself with players such as Egil...managers scraping the transfer barrel..to the extent now that the current manager (operating without a contract) cant even scrape the transfer barrel.

The bank now direct the business of Rangers FC - therefore decisions are made not in the best interests of Rangers FC....but in the best interests of the bank. Such has been the failure of SDM at a business level of the club that the bank no longer trust us to manage our own affairs.

Have a look around Weebaws...other clubs are not operating like this.

So pardon me for having the temerity to refuse to lavish praise on the individual who is responsible for our current plight.

Well, how to respond to such a literary wit. Should I sartorially refer to you as F'artagnan? Or is that unbefitting of a mind capable of conjuring the magnificent 'Weebaws' from 'Weebawbees'. I'm really not sure what to do with myself over this one.

Perhaps it's best to point out your own inaccuracy vi-sa-vi the business of Rangers FC. To wit: "The bank now direct the business of Rangers FC'

Oh dear. You really don't have a clue do you. SDM remains the controlling authority over the club until such time as creditors put in place a legal order concerning the administration of the club. i.e. Get administrators in to retrieve their debt.

To date: Not one has done that. Not even the Bank. Until such time, SDM is the controlling majority.

Get your facts right or be quiet. It's one or the other big man. I'm no Murray sympathiser - I just have no time for fuckwit keyboard disc jockeys that haven't the faintest fucking clue what they're on about.

Get a job at the Sun - you and your no-mark pal. Clever with the comebacks too btw - you'll fit right in.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Oh dear. You really don't have a clue do you. SDM remains the controlling authority over the club until such time as creditors put in place a legal order concerning the administration of the club. i.e. Get administrators in to retrieve their debt.

Contrary to what Walter has repeatedly said....but of course...you know better.

Walter "The Bank are running Rangers"

[Weebawbees 1]

Oh dear. You really don't have a clue do you. SDM remains the controlling authority over the club until such time as creditors put in place a legal order concerning the administration of the club. i.e. Get administrators in to retrieve their debt.

Contrary to what Walter has repeatedly said....but of course...you know better.

At last you're getting it. You ignore the fact that Walter quotes in the papers for the purpose of his own means. Walter's no laywer, neither am I. Nor is he a Director of RFC. So he can say what he likes in order to achieve his 'motivational' ends. You can't argue with the Legal position. Lloyds may have had a persuasive voice - but they never exerted dictatorial control over the running of the club. Everyone on the clubs board (I would wager) knew exactly what needed to be done.

Give it a rest Dart. There is a reality you are resisting for the sake of your posturing. And it makes you look a touch pathetic.

[minstral 5,375]

This is David Murray.

My link

[Weebawbees 1]

The club is in the dire financial position it is because the whole western economy is fucked as a result of the banking mess. Not because of SDM's management (although if he had a crystal ball then yes, you could have lobbed that at him too).

To blame SDM in the manner you are doing is ignorant and you know it - but you clearly have an agenda and the current plight the man in the street, the club, the nation and the global economy faces, clearly entitles you to think that you can pin the blame on the door of David Murray.

Pathetic.

So he overspent. So he overstretched himself and he's getting shafted for it now. And you want to stick the knife in even though he's paying for it personally. And then some.

You are contradicting yourself. Your second statement is correct and your first one is not. He overspent which resulted in our current problems. Nothing to do with the banking mess.

We had our lending limits agreed with the bank before the banking crisis. Our overspending occured before the banking crisis. It was the financial management of David Murray that took us to the limit of our banking facility last season. It was the financial management of David Murray that put the club at risk.

This was the second time under his stewardship that he has done that to us, and proved to the bank that they could not trust him to run the club and as such they were forced to step in and impose restrictions on us.

It's also the second time that he has walked away from his position when times got tough.

Sorry to burst your bubble Del, but you're clearly not understanding how this all works.

My First Statement WAS correct and so was my second. Let me spell it out for you:

1st point - Had the Banks NOT created this unholy mess, then SDM's underwritten borrowing for the club (currently £30m) would not have been called in to question and for it to be drawn down. The club is being shafted bythe Bank because the Bank unwittingly created the situation where they over-lent and then had to (almost) immediately call the money back in.

You still think that sounds like SDM's fault?

If so, I suggest you point that accusatory finger at yourself and every other person you know has a credit card, overdraft or mortgage. The banks have made us all culpable and guys like you that 'dont get it' make it easy for them to escape their responsibility.

When are guys going to wise up?

[Weebawbees 1]

This is David Murray.

My link

WTF? Is this an online asylum or just the URL for the surreal?

[minstral 5,375]

This is David Murray.

My link

WTF? Is this an online asylum or just the URL for the surreal?

[Weebawbees 1]

I'd sum up Murray's tenure thus.

The first decade - brilliant.

The last decade - Hell.

This season's title win will be our first back-to-back title wins in 10 years.

Surely even the most ardent Murray supporter will cringe at that statistic in our two-horse league?

I wish him well in the remainder of his life.....but, the sooner he's gone the better.

I would sum up your support thus:

The first decade - "Glory hunter"

The last decade - "Spoilt wee bastard of a football fan"

Surely even the most superficial supporter of Rangers FC should recognise difficult times when they see them and learn what it means to overcome them. As we have done.

Once again, I have no allegiance to SDM - I don't even know the man.

But I would sum up your support thus: "Spoilt little fucker" Away and support Man Utd for the love of Christ. We don't need prawn sandwich eating arseholse like you. You have no idea what it takes to run a football club and likely will never be interested. You just want to win and blame any losses on someone elses fault.

Fuck your attitude right into the middle of the next century.

[Weebawbees 1]

I might not be too happy with the current financial situation Rangers find themselves in but you cant just look at that and judge Sir David Murray.

The was I see it, he allowed me to see Gazza, Laudrup, van Bronckhorst, Albertz, de Boer, Numan… etc. He paid for Murray park, has a large part to do with Gers having the fantastic stadium they currently do.

If you asked me when I was 10 and say “look you can see some brilliant Gers teams in the next few years, world -class players and have you’re team the envy of most in Europe but it will mean at the end of it money will be tight for a bit?” What you think my answer is going to be. I am grateful to Sir David for allowing me to see Gers teams, that at the time I was too young to appreciate, was probably above the standard they could have been,

So would you swap all those good times, all hes built and now gave Gers just because we have been finally struggling for a few year (but still winning!!!!)??? Anyone that calls Murray a “coward” and such need to take a long hard look at themselves. In many ways he was one the best thing to ever happen to Gers, in others hes been pish. But he isn’t Hitler! Respect what he gave us because I would bet good money we will NEVER have another chairman give us that amount of his own cash and time.

Hey Krs, It's a pity you didn't take more care over how you wrote your piece because you made excellent points in it. Sadly, the style (construct, grammar etc) made it too painful to read - hence the reason I glanced over it it 5 or 6 times before I finally read it. Your points are spot on though. All the best.

[Johnson 27]

So it's a £174m loss for MIH, with a £150m debt-for-equity deal staving off insolvency.

If anyone didn't know the bank were calling the shots, they surely do now.

For Rangers, the news is surprisingly good.

Any inter-connecting loan-guarantee walls, etc, are to be dismantled and each sector managed on its own merits.

It would seem a sell-off is closer than ever.

But I would wait until the full accounts are published for each company before getting too excited.

Murray has a habit of gilding the lily, yet even his "edited highlights" were pretty grim.

A bit more of the picture should emerge on Tuesday when, I hope, we get a look at the full MIH accounts.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

At last you're getting it. You ignore the fact that Walter quotes in the papers for the purpose of his own means. Walter's no laywer, neither am I. Nor is he a Director of RFC. So he can say what he likes in order to achieve his 'motivational' ends. You can't argue with the Legal position. Lloyds may have had a persuasive voice - but they never exerted dictatorial control over the running of the club. Everyone on the clubs board (I would wager) knew exactly what needed to be done.

Give it a rest Dart. There is a reality you are resisting for the sake of your posturing. And it makes you look a touch pathetic.

Well if my position makes me look "a touch pathertic"....heaven only knows what yours makes you look like. There is a familiar ricardoesque flavour to your posts....ie everyone is wrong bar you.

What is truly pathetic is that you are now discrediting Walter by suggesting his heartfelt concern for the club is purely for "his own means"

You can't argue with the Legal position. Lloyds may have had a persuasive voice - but they never exerted dictatorial control over the running of the club

You are right - you cant argue with the facts. And you know it. But pray tell us all....seeing as you have alluded to the fact "Walter is not a Director of RFC"...... how do you know they have never exerted dictatorial control over the running of the club ?

Or are you somehow privvy to knowledge about the running of our club...which Walter is not ??

Perhaps you have missed the content of what Smith...McCoist and even Bain have been saying in recent weeks...but it the "dictorial" buisiness plan the bank are imposing on the club which has caused the currrent furore.

In October, the club were told that they had to agree to the bank’s business plan, or administration would be an option. As The Herald revealed back then, that plan, according to those who viewed it with astonishment, would strangle the club.

It was ferociously contested, as chairman Alastair Johnston conceded at the AGM in December, as it only suited one party – the bank.

A vote was taken, with all those there mindful of the consequences. John McClelland, John Greig, Paul Murray and Dave King all voted against the bank’s plan, attempting to call the money men’s bluff. They did not think they would enforce the administration option, and hoped they would back down and agree to a more flexible plan that would allow Rangers to breathe. They wanted the club put first.

Donald Muir and Mike McGill, one of the Murray Group men who was elected to the board at the same time as Muir, voted in favour of the business plan. Martin Bain, the chief executive, and Donald McIntyre, Rangers’ financial controller, were the only two paid employees on the board and were acutely aware of the potential consequences had they not voted in favour. They had no choice. It stood at 4-4.

Johnston, only two months into his chairmanship, had to decide. He knew what the implications of administration would be – a crippling SPL points deduction and expulsion from the Champions League due to a breach of Uefa’s solvency rules. He was dead against the plan, but he could not gamble. He voted in favour and the plan was accepted by five votes to four.

Sounds pretty dictorial to me.

[CanadianBacon 2,088]

I'd sum up Murray's tenure thus.

The first decade - brilliant.

The last decade - Hell.

This season's title win will be our first back-to-back title wins in 10 years.

Surely even the most ardent Murray supporter will cringe at that statistic in our two-horse league?

I wish him well in the remainder of his life.....but, the sooner he's gone the better.

I would sum up your support thus:

The first decade - "Glory hunter"

The last decade - "Spoilt wee bastard of a football fan"

Surely even the most superficial supporter of Rangers FC should recognise difficult times when they see them and learn what it means to overcome them. As we have done.

Once again, I have no allegiance to SDM - I don't even know the man.

But I would sum up your support thus: "Spoilt little fucker" Away and support Man Utd for the love of Christ. We don't need prawn sandwich eating arseholse like you. You have no idea what it takes to run a football club and likely will never be interested. You just want to win and blame any losses on someone elses fault.

Fuck your attitude right into the middle of the next century.

"Arsehole"?

PM me Mr Big-Mouth - I'd like a private chat.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,540]

I'd sum up Murray's tenure thus.

The first decade - brilliant.

The last decade - Hell.

This season's title win will be our first back-to-back title wins in 10 years.

Surely even the most ardent Murray supporter will cringe at that statistic in our two-horse league?

I wish him well in the remainder of his life.....but, the sooner he's gone the better.

Bit harsh CB

murrays second decade has brought

4 league titles

numerous domestic trophies

last 16 of the champions league

europe after xmas on numerous occasions

first european final since barca 72

yes some times were hard, the beggars doing 3iar, seeing the likes of ostenstad, capucho etc all being here

but we have had good times in his second decade as well, advocaats teams, the run to manchester, ecks 2 titles wins, last season and this seasons titles

to say his second decade was hell is an overstatement imo

[Weebawbees 1]

I'd sum up Murray's tenure thus.

The first decade - brilliant.

The last decade - Hell.

This season's title win will be our first back-to-back title wins in 10 years.

Surely even the most ardent Murray supporter will cringe at that statistic in our two-horse league?

I wish him well in the remainder of his life.....but, the sooner he's gone the better.

I would sum up your support thus:

The first decade - "Glory hunter"

The last decade - "Spoilt wee bastard of a football fan"

Surely even the most superficial supporter of Rangers FC should recognise difficult times when they see them and learn what it means to overcome them. As we have done.

Once again, I have no allegiance to SDM - I don't even know the man.

But I would sum up your support thus: "Spoilt little fucker" Away and support Man Utd for the love of Christ. We don't need prawn sandwich eating arseholse like you. You have no idea what it takes to run a football club and likely will never be interested. You just want to win and blame any losses on someone elses fault.

Fuck your attitude right into the middle of the next century.

"Arsehole"?

PM me Mr Big-Mouth - I'd like a private chat.

You pm me son - pm your mobile number. I'll happily chat with you!!

[pcbear 10,913]

I'd sum up Murray's tenure thus.

The first decade - brilliant.

The last decade - Hell.

This season's title win will be our first back-to-back title wins in 10 years.

Surely even the most ardent Murray supporter will cringe at that statistic in our two-horse league?

I wish him well in the remainder of his life.....but, the sooner he's gone the better.

I would sum up your support thus:

The first decade - "Glory hunter"

The last decade - "Spoilt wee bastard of a football fan"

Surely even the most superficial supporter of Rangers FC should recognise difficult times when they see them and learn what it means to overcome them. As we have done.

Once again, I have no allegiance to SDM - I don't even know the man.

But I would sum up your support thus: "Spoilt little fucker" Away and support Man Utd for the love of Christ. We don't need prawn sandwich eating arseholse like you. You have no idea what it takes to run a football club and likely will never be interested. You just want to win and blame any losses on someone elses fault.

Fuck your attitude right into the middle of the next century.

Like your style mate.

[minstral 5,375]

I'd sum up Murray's tenure thus.

The first decade - brilliant.

The last decade - Hell.

This season's title win will be our first back-to-back title wins in 10 years.

Surely even the most ardent Murray supporter will cringe at that statistic in our two-horse league?

I wish him well in the remainder of his life.....but, the sooner he's gone the better.

I would sum up your support thus:

The first decade - "Glory hunter"

The last decade - "Spoilt wee bastard of a football fan"

Surely even the most superficial supporter of Rangers FC should recognise difficult times when they see them and learn what it means to overcome them. As we have done.

Once again, I have no allegiance to SDM - I don't even know the man.

But I would sum up your support thus: "Spoilt little fucker" Away and support Man Utd for the love of Christ. We don't need prawn sandwich eating arseholse like you. You have no idea what it takes to run a football club and likely will never be interested. You just want to win and blame any losses on someone elses fault.

Fuck your attitude right into the middle of the next century.

Like your style mate.

His style is pish.

[Weebawbees 1]

I'd sum up Murray's tenure thus.

The first decade - brilliant.

The last decade - Hell.

This season's title win will be our first back-to-back title wins in 10 years.

Surely even the most ardent Murray supporter will cringe at that statistic in our two-horse league?

I wish him well in the remainder of his life.....but, the sooner he's gone the better.

I would sum up your support thus:

The first decade - "Glory hunter"

The last decade - "Spoilt wee bastard of a football fan"

Surely even the most superficial supporter of Rangers FC should recognise difficult times when they see them and learn what it means to overcome them. As we have done.

Once again, I have no allegiance to SDM - I don't even know the man.

But I would sum up your support thus: "Spoilt little fucker" Away and support Man Utd for the love of Christ. We don't need prawn sandwich eating arseholse like you. You have no idea what it takes to run a football club and likely will never be interested. You just want to win and blame any losses on someone elses fault.

Fuck your attitude right into the middle of the next century.

Like your style mate.

His style is pish.

Well, my style may not be to your liking, but that don't necessarily make it pish, big chap. Each to their own and all that.