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There's debt then there is DEBT !


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There has been a large focus on the debt of the club & this figure impinging on the summer tranfer dealings & possible takeover.

I thought i would highlight the following debt levels of other clubs and reflect on what we need to concern ourselves on

Portsmouth

The overall net debt, including the money owed to the secured creditor Balram Chainrai and other liabilities, stands at £108.6m

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/apr/22/portsmouth-debt-questions-answers

Manchester Utd

The company, Red Football Joint Venture Ltd, which is owned by the Glazer family, filed accounts today for the year ending 30 June 2009, showing their overall debt has gone past £700m for the first time, increasing by £17m from £699mi

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jan/20/manchester-united-glazers-debt-ronaldo

Liverpool

Liverpool's owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett have been warned by their auditors that failure to refinance a £350 million loan due next month will threaten the club’s ability to operate as a going concern.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/liverpool/5446879/Liverpools-350m-debt-sets-off-alarm-as-Tom-Hicks-and-George-Gillett-warned.html

Chelsea

Chelsea are operating effectively free from debt after Roman Abramovich wiped off £340 million owed to him - but the prospect of the club breaking even by 2010 appears unlikely after they recorded a yearly loss of £44.4million.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/chelsea/6912359/Chelsea-debt-wiped-off-by-Roman-Abramovich-but-club-still-record-loss.html

Now reading the above, makes our clubs debts look pale & insignificant in comparison.

I am absolutely no financial guru but, as i understand it (and put me right if i am wrong) our £30m debt is being cleared at £1m per annum, we currently own our stadium & our training groung (Murray Park). Rangers have development rights to the surrounding ground of Ibrox (i assume that is Ellis's interest) ... basically we are managing our long-term debts and our current assests exceed, by far, our debts meaning we are light years from administration (much to the chagrin of certain media types !!)

We currently have an agreed set of operating terms with the bank, these terms .. again, as far as i am aware, are long term agreements.

Why is there continual talk of slashing the playing staff to meet new budgets if we have agreed our long term goals previously. Certainly, if we want new players then we will have to capitalise on the current squad, possibly sell a 2 crown jewels but the money coming in may allow us to purchase 3-4 players who will gain in value (if they do well) and, ultimately, could be sold on using the same model.

Now, that is my tuppence worth ... i am sure there are glaring errors or misunderstandings of our current situation but this is my view from the cheapseats !!

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The difference in there debts compared to ours is huge. However unlike us there income is far higher than ours because of champs league. Television and the massive fan base they attract because of this you don't hear much about there financial problems. Our debt is more of a problem than there's because our income is less and that's why we sell our players. Just because other teams debts are higher doesn't mean were in less trouble.

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We currently have an agreed set of operating terms with the bank, these terms .. again, as far as i am aware, are long term agreements.

Why is there continual talk of slashing the playing staff to meet new budgets if we have agreed our long term goals previously. Certainly, if we want new players then we will have to capitalise on the current squad, possibly sell a 2 crown jewels but the money coming in may allow us to purchase 3-4 players who will gain in value (if they do well) and, ultimately, could be sold on using the same model.

I have asked this question several times on here and I am yet to get an answer that I understand....

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There is income and then there is their income compared to ours.

correct mate, the money Utd generate from sponserships etc is far greater than we can imagine, im sure they were 2nd on the list of money incoming behind Madrid in a commercial sense.

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As you say our assets outweigh our debt and although we don't have huge income from television coverage and sponsorships like they do down south we're far from being put into administration. As long as we spend our money wisely we can bring in fresh talent from other leagues offering them (for now at least) champions league appearances then flog them off for a profit to the richer English leagues.

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Why is Walter so pessimistic, then?

Nine weeks ago Alistair Johnstone said the next 10 weeks were crucial. The Murray International Holdings accounts are due out next week.

I think everyone at the club has been praying that there would be a takeover by now to get us out of the MIH mess.

The Ellis thing has gone quiet. I'd hope negotiations would be going on in the background.

But it looks to me like it's going to be cut-cut-cut at Rangers until a new owner comes in.

And it looks to me like Walter agrees. :anguish:

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Man U, liverpool's debts are more than their turnover, therefore there debt is worse than ours. Problem is ours is based on being in the SPL so little chance to make a lot od money and without CL plenty of opportunity to lose even more money.

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If the financial position of Rangers FC was completely standalone and had a debt level of £26m (the latest figure) and reducing then there would be no issue and no story.

Unfortunately a significant amount of the investment SDM has made in Rangers over the past decade has been in the form of loans from MIH as opposed to a "gift". If this figure is substantial, say c. 70 - 100m then we have a real problem. I suspect that the due diligence of Ellis has identified this, hence it has gone very quiet on that front.

With the recession MIH is now finacially unstable and the directors of that company would be negligent to its shareholders (who are not only Murray and his family) if they wrote these loans off. Also if MIH is actually heavily in debt in its own right its creditors (including the bank) will not support these loans being written off.

If it was only up to SDM on whether he wanted the loans repaid or written off or/and take a reduced price for his shares then he may or may not choose to do that, but I do not believe it is even his decision.

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The English clubs are in serious shit because their debt IS serious shit. £30m to Rangers is not a major concern because we are always more than likely to be the top earner in the market we operate - in other words, make the most of our earning capability.

The same cannot be said of Liverpool, who are, in one word... fucked.

Out of the CL for next season, the major creditors to the club will be seriously concerned. This is a club that, imho, could seriously go into administration in the next 12-18 months. The american owners have bitten off FAR more than they can chew and are likely to get screwed by the Banks shortly. As will the Glazers and United - although not to the same extent. But United are in troubles too.

The main problem is that the Banks are hurting through lack of cash. Its taking them time to regenerate cash liquidity but they're doing it by fucking you and me over and withdrawing and calling in all sorts of financial support like overdrafts and loans and calling in all the shit they can from the man in the street to make their balance sheets a little healthier. Honest to god it's like dealing with the fucking mafia. I dont owe these bastards much but I know plenty that do - and they're getting royally rogered.

It will be at least a year of this hardship with the Banks before they relinquish any control and you better get ready for it personally. As for RFC, Im not overly concerned - the overheads will be way down next year as a result of Lloyds cost cutting and revenues should be roughly the same if not better. A tightly run ship for once - which it always should have been, but hey - we're football fans - WTF would we know about tightly run ships.

For anyone that's interested, HBoS continue to be c**ts about lending. So do A&L.

Good banks to go to if you're in need are HSBC and RBoS - RBoS in particular are fessing up to their obligation to look after the people who bailed them out in the first place

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Ultimately, we need to wait and see what is in MIH accounts.

Are Rangers debts £30 in total or is their a list of loans to Rangers & therefore our debt is £100m.

I understood is to be the former (from other posters more knowledgable than i). I would have thought that ALL debts we had, including to MIH would have to be declared in our own published accounts, is that not the case ??

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As far as I was aware it was roughly £30m and has probably been reduced by a few millions since that figure, But to buy the club would cost £30 + what ever murray wants for his shares(or who ever owns them)so could take it up to £60m to buy the club. Not 100% sure though.

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There are many rumours that Murray made loans to the club when securing further share rights, therefore any monies are still owed to MIH would could put the debt upto £100m without taking account of the share price.

I also believe the rumours to be p!sh and sh!te but still, they persist (probably perpetuated by the dark side & i don't mean the RST .... lol)

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