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Who's Fault?


  

33 members have voted

  1. 1. Who caused the crash?

    • Vettel
      29
    • Webber
      2
    • Both at fault
      2


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You could look at it two ways.

With Vettel it looks like he fucks up, and he must of thought he was past Webber completely and misjudged it.

Webber was downshifting early to save fuel, thus forcing Vettel onto the dirty side of the track, Webber could have given Vettel more space.

These things happen in Formula One racing, the two drivers just have to move on and look to the next race.

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It's not even debatable mate!Vettel had more top speed than Webber and decided to try a pass off the racing line and totally fucked up.The only two people who said it was not 100% fault of Vettel was Eddie Jordan and Vettel himself...and Eddie Jordan is a fuckin plonker at the best of times.

I'm a total rev-head who never misses a race and have been heavily into Motorsport since I first went to Bathurst in 1970 and have seen some mad things from team mates, but that one just about takes the biscuit.

No matter how wide a track is, there is only ONE correct racing line...and Webber had it.He never changed direction from his racing line or tried to block Vettel from making the pass on the dirty side of the track, so the onus was on Vettel to make the pass stick on the line he chose and to pass Webber, not for Webber to move over or slow down.

Vettel can drive but he is a fucking typical German who is an arrogant cunt and expects his team mate to let him through come hell or high water.He really wants to get a grip of himself if he thinks that was Webber's fault.

It's not the 1st time Vettel has lost the plot and tangled with Webber and fucked it up.Go back to the rain affected Japanese Grand Prix of 2007 when Webber was sitting in 2nd place and odds on to overtake Lewis Hamilton for his maiden GP victory, when Vettel, sitting 3rd in the sister team car car of Scuderia Toro Rosso belted M.W. up the arse and put both of them out.... while under a Safety Car ffs.doh

He's getting as arrogant as Schumacher, but not his standard of driving.

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Vettel is a wee arsehole trying to blame Webber for it. He is still a young and inexperienced driver, compared to Webber who is the older experienced 1. Just hope this doesn't affect the rest of red bulls season as they are flying just now.

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Vettel, for me. I thought at first that Vettel was clearly ahead and Webber could have moved but it's quite clear he didn't have a chance when you saw it again. It was daft from Vettel but it made for the best race of the season so far. Hamilton and Button's little duel showed how it was done, even if they did get a little too close for Whitmarsh's comfort.

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I thought Vettel had the speed, Webber should have gave him the room.

The only reason Vettel had the speed was because Webber was instructed by his engineer to slow down to conserve fuel. ( as was Button and Hamilton )

The 1st person you have to beat in a race is your team mate and there is no way that Webber should have gave Vettel room.Webber never deviated off the racing line he had been on for 40 laps and was in front.It was up to Vettel to make the pass stick on the line he chose, but he cut to the right too early and at 160mph on that turn 12 quad apex corner, Webber had nowhere to go in a split second.

V8 Supercars are the top category of racing in Australia and I phoned up a few of the top drivers and team owners who I know very well and asked them their thoughts on who was to blame....100% said Vettel.

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Vettel, no arguement in it for me. The collision happened before Vettel had made the move stick, if they continued on that line until the braking zone, Webber (with the racing line), would more than likely of defended the pass by outbraking Vettel, so for me he was right to hold his ground. Both the racing drivers in commentary agree that Vettel is at fault, and that's conclusive enough for me.

Christian Horner (Red bull team chief) seemed to suggest it was Webbers fault. However Vettel, to many commentators, is seen as the blue eyed boy within the team. Grossly unfair on Webber, who is in the lead of the world championship on merit.

Horner actually said; " The only thing I always ask the drivers is that, yes, they can race each other, but give each other room, and that's exactly what didn't happen.They were too far over to the left, Sebastian got a run on the inside of Mark, but then came across too early. They didn't give each other room; it's as simple as that."

Red Bull Motorsport boss Dr Helmut Marko was the one who said Webber was at fault because, and I quote; "It was Webber's fault because he was slower because of the fuel situation but also because Sebastian was under threat from Hamilton and would likely have lost second place had he not tried to pass Webber for the lead."

Christian Horner actually took issue with Marko over those comments before going on to make his thoughts known.Vettel is the blue eyed boy of Red Bull owner Dieter Mateschitz and has been groomed as the Red Bull answer to Michael Schumacher, that's why he got the gig in the sister team of Scuderia Toro Rosso before joining Webber at the main team.

Don't be surprised if Webber tells them to stick it next year and goes to Ferrari, because I've met Mark Webber a few times and he doesn't like bullshit pricks who try and put the blame on somebody else.If he was at fault, he would have admitted it.

Did you see the post race conference where Webber and Hamilton was having a confab about it? Hamilton's body language told the story as to who he was blaming, because he had the best seat in the house to see it all happen.

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Both were at fault however thats weight roughly 70-30 towards Vettel.

Vettel should have been more aware of what he was doing, everyone knows thats a bumpy part of the track, regardless of whether he intentionally moved across or was thrown across slightly by the bumps it doesn't matter, having said that Webber also should have known that this was a bumpy part of the track and should have left more room with Vettel than he would anyone else, at the end of the day it IS a team sport and a RB 1-2 should of been the most important thing for both drivers.

Jenson and Lewis shown how you should race against your team mate a few laps latter, they touched, but crucially they had left each other enough room entering the turn that the touch was damaging.

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Both were at fault however thats weight roughly 70-30 towards Vettel.

Vettel should have been more aware of what he was doing, everyone knows thats a bumpy part of the track, regardless of whether he intentionally moved across or was thrown across slightly by the bumps it doesn't matter, having said that Webber also should have known that this was a bumpy part of the track and should have left more room with Vettel than he would anyone else, at the end of the day it IS a team sport and a RB 1-2 should of been the most important thing for both drivers.

Jenson and Lewis shown how you should race against your team mate a few laps latter, they touched, but crucially they had left each other enough room entering the turn that the touch was damaging.

Team sport??? are you kidding me...Ask ANY driver in any racing category anywhere in the world about who they try and beat 1st and foremost and you will get a 100% answer that it's your team mate.

These guys are playing for sheep stations, as we say in Australia, and there's no fucking way that Webber should have let him through and handed him the world championship lead.

It is important to the team to wrap up the constructors championship, but no driver even thinks of that fact when he is in a battle with some other dude... team mate or no team mate.

team sport indeed.doh Moto GP with Valentino Rossi and Jorge Lorenzo anyone?:anguish:

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Vettel totally at fault but no shock really that Red Bull look to be blaming Webber. Blue eyed boy and all that shite! Was a silly mistake that Vettel made but it made my day! :D

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Both were at fault however thats weight roughly 70-30 towards Vettel.

Vettel should have been more aware of what he was doing, everyone knows thats a bumpy part of the track, regardless of whether he intentionally moved across or was thrown across slightly by the bumps it doesn't matter, having said that Webber also should have known that this was a bumpy part of the track and should have left more room with Vettel than he would anyone else, at the end of the day it IS a team sport and a RB 1-2 should of been the most important thing for both drivers.

Jenson and Lewis shown how you should race against your team mate a few laps latter, they touched, but crucially they had left each other enough room entering the turn that the touch was damaging.

Team sport??? are you kidding me...Ask ANY driver in any racing category anywhere in the world about who they try and beat 1st and foremost and you will get a 100% answer that it's your team mate.

These guys are playing for sheep stations, as we say in Australia, and there's no fucking way that Webber should have let him through and handed him the world championship lead.

It is important to the team to wrap up the constructors championship, but no driver even thinks of that fact when he is in a battle with some other dude... team mate or no team mate.

team sport indeed.dohMoto GP with Valentino Rossi and Jorge Lorenzo anyone?:anguish:

Yes it IS a team sport, at the end of the day its the TEAM that pays their wages and allows them to pocket millions more in sponsorship money, if your not a team player the team will simply sack you. Obviously you must firstly beat you team-mate to become number one in your team, but you must also be sensible about it, both the drivers on sunday cost Red Bull MILLIONS of pounds by effectively wrecking two cars and losing points, and possibly BOTH the constructors and drivers championships.

Funny you should bring that up, I watch MotoGP also, and yes you see them racing hard against each other, but you also don't see them running each other off the road by getting too close and needlessly making contact.

As I've said most of the blame has to lie at Vettels door, but Webber is NOT blameless in all of this, and as I have also already stated you just need to look a few laps further into the race on sunday to see how team-mates should race against each other.

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Both were at fault however thats weight roughly 70-30 towards Vettel.

Vettel should have been more aware of what he was doing, everyone knows thats a bumpy part of the track, regardless of whether he intentionally moved across or was thrown across slightly by the bumps it doesn't matter, having said that Webber also should have known that this was a bumpy part of the track and should have left more room with Vettel than he would anyone else, at the end of the day it IS a team sport and a RB 1-2 should of been the most important thing for both drivers.

Jenson and Lewis shown how you should race against your team mate a few laps latter, they touched, but crucially they had left each other enough room entering the turn that the touch was damaging.

Team sport??? are you kidding me...Ask ANY driver in any racing category anywhere in the world about who they try and beat 1st and foremost and you will get a 100% answer that it's your team mate.

These guys are playing for sheep stations, as we say in Australia, and there's no fucking way that Webber should have let him through and handed him the world championship lead.

It is important to the team to wrap up the constructors championship, but no driver even thinks of that fact when he is in a battle with some other dude... team mate or no team mate.

team sport indeed.dohMoto GP with Valentino Rossi and Jorge Lorenzo anyone?:anguish:

Yes it IS a team sport, at the end of the day its the TEAM that pays their wages and allows them to pocket millions more in sponsorship money, if your not a team player the team will simply sack you. Obviously you must firstly beat you team-mate to become number one in your team, but you must also be sensible about it, both the drivers on sunday cost Red Bull MILLIONS of pounds by effectively wrecking two cars and losing points, and possibly BOTH the constructors and drivers championships.

Funny you should bring that up, I watch MotoGP also, and yes you see them racing hard against each other, but you also don't see them running each other off the road by getting too close and needlessly making contact.

As I've said most of the blame has to lie at Vettels door, but Webber is NOT blameless in all of this, and as I have also already stated you just need to look a few laps further into the race on sunday to see how team-mates should race against each other.

You must have missed a few rounds, mac....:wink:

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Number 1 rule ? give your team-mate space , its clear to anyone that Vettel had more speed coming out the corner , no debate there, now Webber was within his racing rights to hold his current line ( NOT THE RACING ONE AT THIS POINT) now he did the correct thing if that was anyone bar his fellow teammate , Vettel on the other hand should not have assumed Webber would move over for him regardless of team ethics , if he had stayed where he was he would still have inside line to the next corner and could force webber wide causing him to break weilding the lead to Vettel.

Now i cant understand why Webber wanted to stay there causing Vettel to make a decision , with the cars they have they would still have a 1-2 finish but you could also say Vettel should have stayed 2nd and finished for the 1-2 but this being Racing and whats meant to be its highest form then regardless of team rules the drivers will race .

Personally you cant blame EITHER driver i'll put it down to a racing incident (tu)

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Both were at fault however thats weight roughly 70-30 towards Vettel.

Vettel should have been more aware of what he was doing, everyone knows thats a bumpy part of the track, regardless of whether he intentionally moved across or was thrown across slightly by the bumps it doesn't matter, having said that Webber also should have known that this was a bumpy part of the track and should have left more room with Vettel than he would anyone else, at the end of the day it IS a team sport and a RB 1-2 should of been the most important thing for both drivers.

Jenson and Lewis shown how you should race against your team mate a few laps latter, they touched, but crucially they had left each other enough room entering the turn that the touch was damaging.

Team sport??? are you kidding me...Ask ANY driver in any racing category anywhere in the world about who they try and beat 1st and foremost and you will get a 100% answer that it's your team mate.

These guys are playing for sheep stations, as we say in Australia, and there's no fucking way that Webber should have let him through and handed him the world championship lead.

It is important to the team to wrap up the constructors championship, but no driver even thinks of that fact when he is in a battle with some other dude... team mate or no team mate.

team sport indeed.dohMoto GP with Valentino Rossi and Jorge Lorenzo anyone?:anguish:

Yes it IS a team sport, at the end of the day its the TEAM that pays their wages and allows them to pocket millions more in sponsorship money, if your not a team player the team will simply sack you. Obviously you must firstly beat you team-mate to become number one in your team, but you must also be sensible about it, both the drivers on sunday cost Red Bull MILLIONS of pounds by effectively wrecking two cars and losing points, and possibly BOTH the constructors and drivers championships.

Funny you should bring that up, I watch MotoGP also, and yes you see them racing hard against each other, but you also don't see them running each other off the road by getting too close and needlessly making contact.

As I've said most of the blame has to lie at Vettels door, but Webber is NOT blameless in all of this, and as I have also already stated you just need to look a few laps further into the race on sunday to see how team-mates should race against each other.

You must have missed a few rounds, mac....:wink:

I've watched every round and can't recall any contact between the two , some very hard racing last season and this but cant recall them running each other of the road , What race was this your on about ?

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for those stating webber had the racing line , he didnt , he was in the middle to the left handside when there is a left hand corner approaching , you'll find the racing line is on the right hand side of the track (tu) just a FYI.

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Both were at fault however thats weight roughly 70-30 towards Vettel.

Vettel should have been more aware of what he was doing, everyone knows thats a bumpy part of the track, regardless of whether he intentionally moved across or was thrown across slightly by the bumps it doesn't matter, having said that Webber also should have known that this was a bumpy part of the track and should have left more room with Vettel than he would anyone else, at the end of the day it IS a team sport and a RB 1-2 should of been the most important thing for both drivers.

Jenson and Lewis shown how you should race against your team mate a few laps latter, they touched, but crucially they had left each other enough room entering the turn that the touch was damaging.

Team sport??? are you kidding me...Ask ANY driver in any racing category anywhere in the world about who they try and beat 1st and foremost and you will get a 100% answer that it's your team mate.

These guys are playing for sheep stations, as we say in Australia, and there's no fucking way that Webber should have let him through and handed him the world championship lead.

It is important to the team to wrap up the constructors championship, but no driver even thinks of that fact when he is in a battle with some other dude... team mate or no team mate.

team sport indeed.dohMoto GP with Valentino Rossi and Jorge Lorenzo anyone?:anguish:

Yes it IS a team sport, at the end of the day its the TEAM that pays their wages and allows them to pocket millions more in sponsorship money, if your not a team player the team will simply sack you. Obviously you must firstly beat you team-mate to become number one in your team, but you must also be sensible about it, both the drivers on sunday cost Red Bull MILLIONS of pounds by effectively wrecking two cars and losing points, and possibly BOTH the constructors and drivers championships.

Funny you should bring that up, I watch MotoGP also, and yes you see them racing hard against each other, but you also don't see them running each other off the road by getting too close and needlessly making contact.

As I've said most of the blame has to lie at Vettels door, but Webber is NOT blameless in all of this, and as I have also already stated you just need to look a few laps further into the race on sunday to see how team-mates should race against each other.

You must have missed a few rounds, mac....:wink:

I've watched every round and can't recall any contact between the two , some very hard racing last season and this but cant recall them running each other of the road , What race was this your on about ?

I wasn't talking about this season.They whacked each other a few times in 2008 and 2009 seasons...and by the way, this season has a long way to go yet, so don't bet on it happening again.

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Both were at fault however thats weight roughly 70-30 towards Vettel.

Vettel should have been more aware of what he was doing, everyone knows thats a bumpy part of the track, regardless of whether he intentionally moved across or was thrown across slightly by the bumps it doesn't matter, having said that Webber also should have known that this was a bumpy part of the track and should have left more room with Vettel than he would anyone else, at the end of the day it IS a team sport and a RB 1-2 should of been the most important thing for both drivers.

Jenson and Lewis shown how you should race against your team mate a few laps latter, they touched, but crucially they had left each other enough room entering the turn that the touch was damaging.

Team sport??? are you kidding me...Ask ANY driver in any racing category anywhere in the world about who they try and beat 1st and foremost and you will get a 100% answer that it's your team mate.

These guys are playing for sheep stations, as we say in Australia, and there's no fucking way that Webber should have let him through and handed him the world championship lead.

It is important to the team to wrap up the constructors championship, but no driver even thinks of that fact when he is in a battle with some other dude... team mate or no team mate.

team sport indeed.dohMoto GP with Valentino Rossi and Jorge Lorenzo anyone?:anguish:

Yes it IS a team sport, at the end of the day its the TEAM that pays their wages and allows them to pocket millions more in sponsorship money, if your not a team player the team will simply sack you. Obviously you must firstly beat you team-mate to become number one in your team, but you must also be sensible about it, both the drivers on sunday cost Red Bull MILLIONS of pounds by effectively wrecking two cars and losing points, and possibly BOTH the constructors and drivers championships.

Funny you should bring that up, I watch MotoGP also, and yes you see them racing hard against each other, but you also don't see them running each other off the road by getting too close and needlessly making contact.

As I've said most of the blame has to lie at Vettels door, but Webber is NOT blameless in all of this, and as I have also already stated you just need to look a few laps further into the race on sunday to see how team-mates should race against each other.

You must have missed a few rounds, mac....:wink:

I've watched every round and can't recall any contact between the two , some very hard racing last season and this but cant recall them running each other of the road , What race was this your on about ?

I wasn't talking about this season.They whacked each other a few times in 2008 and 2009 seasons...and by the way, this season has a long way to go yet, so don't bet on it happening again.

Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel weren't team mates in the 2008 season.

I don't recall any other incidents where they've ran into each other apart from Sunday.

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