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Ajax youth setup-a lesson for us?.


jcb

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It should also probably be noted that most continental countries, youth players don't play 11 a side until the age of 16, 5-7 aside matches before that as these games are less about tactics more about flair and movement.

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:lol:

been spoke about for years

its not going to happen

coaches in scotland pick the kids who come from rich families or from families they know(its not what yev got-ie. skill, its who ye know-ie. people in the game) and the kids who are the biggest and strongest, not the best players, been happening for years

the attitude of youth players abroad to those here in the UK is totally different, it cannot be underestimated how important attitude is to a players progression. the kids on the continent want it more whereas the kids here just expect things to happen for them.

our kids are spoiled brats and train more on fitness whereas abroad the kids are already fit while they do all their ballwork, mainly because they havnt been binge eating on shite all their early days and glued to computer screens or hanging around street corners.

ive been to a few tournaments abroad and the scots teams always do well up until they get to late teen years, then they change, foreign kids grow into athletes, ours grow into wee arsehole neds.

generally speaking of course, there are the few exceptions of course.

Hard to disagree with anything you say but i would still like to see us adopt a more continental approach in which we combine education (perhaps have onsite facilities)with emphasis on diet &alcohol intake as well as academic studies.With regard to your comments on attitude i once congratulated a player on his performance as he was being substituted after he scored two late goals he replied " big players score big goals in big games" it was a under 19 game v Dundee United,he is no longer with us.

(tu)

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To be fair, our academy isn't that bad. Alan Hutton was sold for £9m a few years ago, while the likes of McGregor, Boyd and Wilson have attracted quite a bit of interest recently from decent clubs. Also guys like Adam, McCormack, Burke and N'Guessan came through Murray Park, and are now worth a combined small fortune.

That's a fair point. It also has to be remembered that clubs in the UK operate at a huge disadvantage when it comes to signing foreign players, particularly youngsters. If a player comes from outwith the 27 EU nations we need to get a work permit. This is not the case in Holland and many other European countries. It's a double-whammy bonus - they can sign cheap, hungry and talented players, get a few seasons out of the ones that come good, then sell them on for a huge profit and repeat the cycle. One thing i'll say is that there are options with are not currently being explored at Rangers to my knowledge.

The guy at Dundee Utd is doing very well, having come from a completely different background than is typical for a youth coach. His own private boys teams were far better technically than Utd's, so they hired him to apply new ideas. Celtic are currently going the other way, and copying the system emplyed by many continental teams, where their best young teenage players are all educated at a school close to the training ground, menaing they can spend far more time coaching technique at a crucial stage of development. I hope we are also looking at differet ideas along these lines.

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I agree that we should be focused on youth development, the problem is that the players would rarely break through to the first team as the need for immediate success is too much of a burden for the young players. Already we have a few decent players in the youth Wilson Fleck Perry Little Shinnie to name a few but the problem is that they get little to no chance of being played ,ok, Wilson was an exception admittedly he was forced on Walter due to Boogie being injured and Fleck was given a few games but on the whole the development of youth at our club, is, and always will be, secondary in the minds of our manager. There is no real progression or integration from youth level to the first team. I dont see this changing any time soon either. You'd think that in our financial state that we'd have been looking at the youth to supplement the squad or even make up a larger part of it, instead we waste money on the likes of Rothen when we could have so easily picked players from the younger ranks and gave them a chance, the emergence of Wilson should have opened Walters eyes that maybe, just maybe we have players who could do a job for the first team!

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Guest SandyIniesta-Nordahl

I still don't understand why we don't bring in 9-a-side, for the ages 12-15, they do it on the continent.

The gap between 7 and 11s is huge.

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The pathetic uproar and 'I hope he fails' mentality we apply to any decent player that dares to leave Ibrox means that the Ajax system of training stars of the future for profit might not work as smoothly as people think.

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The pathetic uproar and 'I hope he fails' mentality we apply to any decent player that dares to leave Ibrox means that the Ajax system of training stars of the future for profit might not work as smoothly as people think.

wise words

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The Ajax thing may have been true in the past. They haven't won the Dutch Championship since 2004. Are the Ajax fans happy with the current setup or would they rather be winning the league ? I know that the messageboards would be in meltdown if Rangers went six years without winning the league.

Rangers have to be competing to win the league every year, which makes the introduction of young players a lot more difficult.

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The Ajax thing may have been true in the past. They haven't won the Dutch Championship since 2004. Are the Ajax fans happy with the current setup or would they rather be winning the league ? I know that the messageboards would be in meltdown if Rangers went six years without winning the league.

Rangers have to be competing to win the league every year, which makes the introduction of young players a lot more difficult.

Not a dig at you as I an aware of your involvement with the youth's, but that's the sort of mindset, so prevalent in the Scottish game, which assumes that older is better. It would need a huge name, with big balls, who came in and had root and branch reform as there would be murder from the stands if progress wasn't immediate.

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Exactly the point I was making. Any Rangers manager would get 6 months before they were under pressure to get results. I am not saying this is right, I am just saying it is a fact.

Most teams that have had reputautions for producing young players are not under pressure to get results, Crewe in England, Auxerre in France for example. Ajax were a club that managed both in the past, but as I said have now gone 6 years without a title.Looking at their current youth squad, there are about a dozen players Rangers couldn't sign even if they wanted to.

Any one taking over at a club like Rangers would never get the time to go down the youth route. Rangers have to do it and keep winning. The season before last Hibs were without doubt the best youth side, only one David Wotherspoon has pushed into the first team, at a club with no where near the pressure of the old firm.

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The Ajax thing may have been true in the past. They haven't won the Dutch Championship since 2004. Are the Ajax fans happy with the current setup or would they rather be winning the league ? I know that the messageboards would be in meltdown if Rangers went six years without winning the league.

Rangers have to be competing to win the league every year, which makes the introduction of young players a lot more difficult.

Not a dig at you as I an aware of your involvement with the youth's, but that's the sort of mindset, so prevalent in the Scottish game, which assumes that older is better. It would need a huge name, with big balls, who came in and had root and branch reform as there would be murder from the stands if progress wasn't immediate.

That is the problem we face as a support.Is success in the short term more important than putting in place a structure that could benefit us long term,Would we show the patience required if we had a couple of poor seasons.I realise that right now money is everything but feel we are too short sighted when what is required is a radical change in how our club is run with emphasis on a sustainable and progressive model.

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Exactly the point I was making. Any Rangers manager would get 6 months before they were under pressure to get results. I am not saying this is right, I am just saying it is a fact.

Most teams that have had reputautions for producing young players are not under pressure to get results, Crewe in England, Auxerre in France for example. Ajax were a club that managed both in the past, but as I said have now gone 6 years without a title.Looking at their current youth squad, there are about a dozen players Rangers couldn't sign even if they wanted to.

Any one taking over at a club like Rangers would never get the time to go down the youth route. Rangers have to do it and keep winning. The season before last Hibs were without doubt the best youth side, only one David Wotherspoon has pushed into the first team, at a club with no where near the pressure of the old firm.

We just need the men at the top to show some bravery and inform the support as to what the plan was going to be, and stick to it. Obviously it would need to be a gradual shift.

The way the UEFA co-efficient is going, we won't have the luxury of guaranteed CL participation to finance transfers.

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i dont see why we cant keep winning titles and trophies while bringing 1 or 2 youths through a year

whats so hard about that?

its not so much the infrastructure at the club, but the manager in charge, the right coach and coaching team can do it

this year we won the double and have seen the likes of fleck and wilson break through, mcgregor came through the ranks here too

what do fans want, a whole new team every year full of youth academy products?

our squad just now has the basis of a strong team which could be together for the next 10 years

i myself would not be happy to put aside success every year just to bring through more youth players, ffs were not a school for young players to develop them and then let them goto other clubs on the cheap to make their names, were all about winning, thats what we do and thats what football is all about, winning, you dont get trophies for producing the most amount of young players, you get trophies, new fans and more money from winning things, thats why we are the worlds most successful club!

even when we do bring young players through, as a club we do not make money from them much anyway, hutton is the exception, 1 player in all those hundreds who come through the youth set up.

if players like burke, adam and mccormack(im sure theres others) were treated properly by us not only could they have been legends but we could have made millions from them too.

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i dont see why we cant keep winning titles and trophies while bringing 1 or 2 youths through a year

whats so hard about that?

its not so much the infrastructure at the club, but the manager in charge, the right coach and coaching team can do it

this year we won the double and have seen the likes of fleck and wilson break through

what do fans want, a whole new team every year full of youth academy products?

i myself would not be happy to put aside success every year just to bring through more youth players, ffs were not a school for young players to develop them and then let them goto other clubs on the cheap to make their names, were all about winning, thats what we do and thats what football is all about, winning, you dont get trophies for producing the most amount of young players, you get trophies, new fans and more money from winning things, thats why we are the worlds most successful club!

even when we do bring young players through, as a club we do not make money from them much anyway, hutton is the exception, 1 player in all those hundreds who come through the youth set up.

if players like burke, adam and mccormack were treated properly by us not only could they have been legends but we could have made millions from them too.

With no guarantee of Champions League football and the money that it brings in the near future then surely we should be looking to bring through more of our own youngsters.No one is saying we will be producing 5 or 6 players every season but the ones who make it should be of a higher standard which should enable us to make a healthy profit when they leave us thus generating much needed income.

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i dont see why we cant keep winning titles and trophies while bringing 1 or 2 youths through a year

whats so hard about that?

its not so much the infrastructure at the club, but the manager in charge, the right coach and coaching team can do it

this year we won the double and have seen the likes of fleck and wilson break through

what do fans want, a whole new team every year full of youth academy products?

i myself would not be happy to put aside success every year just to bring through more youth players, ffs were not a school for young players to develop them and then let them goto other clubs on the cheap to make their names, were all about winning, thats what we do and thats what football is all about, winning, you dont get trophies for producing the most amount of young players, you get trophies, new fans and more money from winning things, thats why we are the worlds most successful club!

even when we do bring young players through, as a club we do not make money from them much anyway, hutton is the exception, 1 player in all those hundreds who come through the youth set up.

if players like burke, adam and mccormack were treated properly by us not only could they have been legends but we could have made millions from them too.

With no guarantee of Champions League football and the money that it brings in the near future then surely we should be looking to bring through more of our own youngsters.No one is saying we will be producing 5 or 6 players every season but the ones who make it should be of a higher standard which should enable us to make a healthy profit when they leave us thus generating much needed income.

this year will likely be our last year in the champions league for a while, we have been bringing our wage bill down dramatically in the last few years so we dont have to rely on champions league money, yes it would be nice to bring more young kids through but not to the detriment of the clubs stature, ie losing our crown as champions just to bring kids through, i would love the ones that make it to be of a higher standard and be good enough to play in our first team, in fact i think its a shame on our coaches that we dont have a young player in the ranks better than lee mculloch or kirk broadfoot, its a shame on our caoches we havnt been able to bring through a left winger good enough to play left wing for us or a striker good enough who can score goals in this piss poor league, every other club seem to manage it fine, and keep their constant expected level year on year, ie hibs top 6, dundee utd top 6, hearts top 6, hamilton stay in the league, im sure we could bring a few through and still stay champions, as i say its all down to the coaches and manager at that time, every coach trusts and handles kids differently. a good structure at any club is useless if the wrong man is in charge of the team.

making a healthy profit is not something we are good at as a club, we dont negotiate transfers or contracts well.

(tu)

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It takes a long time and the right set up and coaches to get where Ajax is. If it was as easy as flicking a switch, every club in the world would have a setup like theirs.

We have a set up like there's.

It cost £10,000,000+ to build.

I think over the next 5 or so years we will see a lot of youth players coming through.

I'm happy with the set up, Murray Park has more or less paid for itself with the sell on of a few of the youth players over the last couple of years. I think its just the beginning. Hutton covered most of it and if we get a good chunk of change from possibly Wilson, Fleck etc over the next 2-3 years, we're actually in the black with the construction of Murray Park completely.

Its just all the other bad financial management that's cost us, ie - Advocaat.

Just think - instead of buying Tore Andre Flo - we built the complex back then. I'm quite confident that we would of had at least 10+ youth players through that method by now.

It makes me sick thinking about it. :anguish:

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It takes a long time and the right set up and coaches to get where Ajax is. If it was as easy as flicking a switch, every club in the world would have a setup like theirs.

We have a set up like there's.

It cost £10,000,000+ to build.

I think over the next 5 or so years we will see a lot of youth players coming through.

I'm happy with the set up, Murray Park has more or less paid for itself with the sell on of a few of the youth players over the last couple of years. I think its just the beginning. Hutton covered most of it and if we get a good chunk of change from possibly Wilson, Fleck etc over the next 2-3 years, we're actually in the black with the construction of Murray Park completely.

Its just all the other bad financial management that's cost us, ie - Advocaat.

Just think - instead of buying Tore Andre Flo - we built the complex back then. I'm quite confident that we would of had at least 10+ youth players through that method by now.

It makes me sick thinking about it. :anguish:

Eh?

Construction was already underway when Flo signed. It opened about six months later. Advocaat had his faults, but without him we wouldn't even have had it.

As for already having a set-up like Ajax, we don't. Having a training ground is only the start.

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It takes a long time and the right set up and coaches to get where Ajax is. If it was as easy as flicking a switch, every club in the world would have a setup like theirs.

We have a set up like there's.

It cost £10,000,000+ to build.

I think over the next 5 or so years we will see a lot of youth players coming through.

I'm happy with the set up, Murray Park has more or less paid for itself with the sell on of a few of the youth players over the last couple of years. I think its just the beginning. Hutton covered most of it and if we get a good chunk of change from possibly Wilson, Fleck etc over the next 2-3 years, we're actually in the black with the construction of Murray Park completely.

Its just all the other bad financial management that's cost us, ie - Advocaat.

Just think - instead of buying Tore Andre Flo - we built the complex back then. I'm quite confident that we would of had at least 10+ youth players through that method by now.

It makes me sick thinking about it. :anguish:

It was Dick Advocaat who insisted on us having a top class training & youth facility which put to an end the ridiculous practice of multi-million pound players being bussed around Glasgow to train at a different venue each day.As for bad financial management we were £5.9 million in debt in 2007,six years after Dick left.

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Sorry guys.

Miscalculation.

I always thought Flo signed for us the year before Murray Park was opened?

Just don't think there was any point in doing both - ie Flo and Murray Park.

I know we don't have the great coaches that Ajaz have but at least we have the facilities.

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OK, I'm a bit confused now about a Youth Academy, I'm sure that Rangers do have a youth academy which has under 10s, 11s, 12s, 13s, 14s, 15s, 17s, the under 19s and to a certain extent reserves?

Not only do we have these stages in development but we also have very strong links within the community now supporting education etc, both academically and supporting healthy living. The Youth set up I agree has taken a lot longer than what I expected and hoped for but there have been a few who have come through the ranks and there will be a lot more in the next couple of seasons, forget this rubbish about we should be giving the youth more of a chance because in all honesty if we had the finances to buy big and if we did buy big giving us success I doubt very much anyone on here would be complaining.

The lack of youth/buying big happens at most clubs, just look at Man City (now), Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Utd for some examples how many of their players actually came through their youth ranks without them paying millions of pounds for their top players, it sure as hell won't be 1 or 2 a season. Only Arsenal to a certain extent develop their youth, but when was the last time they won anything, and some of their young players they paid millions for them from other clubs.

We are Rangers, and we demand success, it doesn't matter if we have someone in charge at the top who can turn around and say tough, we're going to develop youth and if that means we don't win anything for a few years you're just going to have to get over it, it won't happen not with some of our fans because if we don't have success then some of our fans will stop attending matches etc.

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OK, I'm a bit confused now about a Youth Academy, I'm sure that Rangers do have a youth academy which has under 10s, 11s, 12s, 13s, 14s, 15s, 17s, the under 19s and to a certain extent reserves?

Not only do we have these stages in development but we also have very strong links within the community now supporting education etc, both academically and supporting healthy living. The Youth set up I agree has taken a lot longer than what I expected and hoped for but there have been a few who have come through the ranks and there will be a lot more in the next couple of seasons, forget this rubbish about we should be giving the youth more of a chance because in all honesty if we had the finances to buy big and if we did buy big giving us success I doubt very much anyone on here would be complaining.

The lack of youth/buying big happens at most clubs, just look at Man City (now), Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Utd for some examples how many of their players actually came through their youth ranks without them paying millions of pounds for their top players, it sure as hell won't be 1 or 2 a season. Only Arsenal to a certain extent develop their youth, but when was the last time they won anything, and some of their young players they paid millions for them from other clubs.

We are Rangers, and we demand success, it doesn't matter if we have someone in charge at the top who can turn around and say tough, we're going to develop youth and if that means we don't win anything for a few years you're just going to have to get over it, it won't happen not with some of our fans because if we don't have success then some of our fans will stop attending matches etc.

That's a very interesting point me and a mate discussed,hard to put into words but the crux of it was both of us would be disappointed but accept not winning the league for a couple of seasons if it meant we would have a much stronger team for the future,and also touched on the fact that a lot of fans wouldn't be happy as the be all and end all is finishing above them and winning the SPL.

Short-term mentality.

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OK, I'm a bit confused now about a Youth Academy, I'm sure that Rangers do have a youth academy which has under 10s, 11s, 12s, 13s, 14s, 15s, 17s, the under 19s and to a certain extent reserves?

Not only do we have these stages in development but we also have very strong links within the community now supporting education etc, both academically and supporting healthy living. The Youth set up I agree has taken a lot longer than what I expected and hoped for but there have been a few who have come through the ranks and there will be a lot more in the next couple of seasons, forget this rubbish about we should be giving the youth more of a chance because in all honesty if we had the finances to buy big and if we did buy big giving us success I doubt very much anyone on here would be complaining.

The lack of youth/buying big happens at most clubs, just look at Man City (now), Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Utd for some examples how many of their players actually came through their youth ranks without them paying millions of pounds for their top players, it sure as hell won't be 1 or 2 a season. Only Arsenal to a certain extent develop their youth, but when was the last time they won anything, and some of their young players they paid millions for them from other clubs.

We are Rangers, and we demand success, it doesn't matter if we have someone in charge at the top who can turn around and say tough, we're going to develop youth and if that means we don't win anything for a few years you're just going to have to get over it, it won't happen not with some of our fans because if we don't have success then some of our fans will stop attending matches etc.

That's a very interesting point me and a mate discussed,hard to put into words but the crux of it was both of us would be disappointed but accept not winning the league for a couple of seasons if it meant we would have a much stronger team for the future,and also touched on the fact that a lot of fans wouldn't be happy as the be all and end all is finishing above them and winning the SPL.

Short-term mentality. WINNING MENTALITY! (tu)

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