The Real H***

[theweebluenose 4,331]

Monday, 20 September 2010

THE REAL H***

THERE is a marvellous part of Paul Brickhill's wonderful biography of Sir Douglas Bader, 'Reach For The Sky,' which recalls when the Battle of Britain fighter pilot hero is being questioned by a German officer.

It is just after Bader became a POW, and the German adopts a softy-softy approach, saying to Bader that he knows the British always call them, Jerries.

Bader, always pugnacious, quickly interjects and corrects his interrogator by saying: "No we don't. We call you H***."

Which gives a perfect example of just who or what H*** historically are. There is a long history behind this term, and those who bandy it about as a jibe at Rangers and their supporters are clearly ingnorant of that history.

In the ranks of the ignorant I include the editor of the Scotsman, John McLennan . His newspaper was deluged by complaints after a cartoon appeared featuring the German Pope waving to Rangers fans in the aftermath of the draw at Old Trafford, and remarking that it was a good day all round for H***.

McLennan was so under siege he took a step unusual for an editor-in-chief of publishing a signed apology. It was however, weasel-worded, as he admitted to being a Rangers fan, brought up in the West of Scotland who was frequently referred to as a H** by his Celtic supporting friends, and insisted he took no offence from it.

WELL HE SHOULD!

And indeed he would if he knew the history of the word in the 20th century. What will surprise all but the most erudite of readers, is that it was first used in July 1900 by Kaiser Wilhelm 111 as he spoke to German troops being sent to China to put down the Boxer Rebellion.

What Kaiser Bill said was this: "Prisoners will not be taken. Once, a thousand years ago the H***, under their king, Attila, made a name for themselves, one still potent in legend and tradition. May you in this way make the name of Germany remembered for a thousand years, so that no Chinaman will ever again dare to even squint at a German."

There followed a period of German barbarism when the Germans, taking the Kaiser at his word, perpetrated the first genocide of the 20th century, as a forerunner to the Holocaust.

It was during 1904 in German south west Africa - what we know today as Nambia - that General Lothar von Trotha slaughtered 60,000 of the Herero tribe and 8,000, from a population of 10,000, of the Nama tribe.

This led to the Germans becoming widely known as H***, an epithet which gained even more of a common currency ten years later at the outbreak of the Great War.

During the Second World War, Nazi Germany perfected the barbaric techniques of mass extermination, putting six million Jews to death, plus uncounted millions of Romany people, Slavs, and even their own countrymen, should they be unfortunate enough to suffer any mental illness, or be homosexual.

H***, in the tradition of Attila, indeed, but to an extent the Mongolian warlord could never have imagined.

It was a word still used into the mid 1970s when that fine and learned Scot, Jeremy Issacs, produced the definitive television history of the 1939-45 fight for the survival of civilisation against the H***, The World At War.

Many of those interviewed, in a series which is often re-run on the History , Yesterday or Discovery channels, refer to those from Nazi Germany as H***, just as Bader did when confronted with one.

Therefore those who use it to describe Rangers and the club's supporters are either extremely ignorant, or believe the Ibrox club and its supporters can be compared to the SS, the Gestapo and all the others who were responsible for genocide.

Brian Reade of the Daily Mirror is another who is either a fool or a bigot after he tried to be a smart alec by using it, referring to Rangers , in a recent column in that once great but now laughable rag.

One man who would not tolerate it being used was the wee guy who I thought was one of the best things ever to happen to Scottish football, the fellow who rescued Celtic from oblivion, the wonderful Fergus McCann.

I always thought Celtic as a club were at their best and most admirable when McCann was calling the shots and a good pal of mine, Jim Cullen, a Celtic supporter who owned The Montrose Bar, where I often shared a shandy with Billy McNeill and other Parkhead legends, idolised wee Fergus.

Of course there may be many with Celtic DNA who disagree. Who think McCann was not as great a Celt as I and my pal big Jim believed.

However, I am sure there are others, like so many of the Celtic supporters who have been my friends down through the years, and who may not have been completely aware of just what the history of the epithet, H*** is.

They know now!

Though I am just as sure there are others who won't take a blind bit of notice of this wee lesson to let them know the history, and will continue to apply the the insult, H*** to Rangers and the club's fans.

Fergus McCann had his own insult for those people. He called them bigots.

[bluenose4life 5]

David Leggat WHY is he not in a major paper again?

[BelfastExile1873 8]

Pretty good article from him but he could have really stuck the knife in with the hypocracy of them saying Rangers fans=H*ns and calling Hearts (another side with a historic Protestant support) the Mini-h*ns.

This is an illegal slur on a religious faith, no more no less and any Rangers fan who refer to themselves as such should be fucking ashamed.

[theweebluenose 4,331]

Pretty good article from him but he could have really stuck the knife in with the hypocracy of them saying Rangers fans=H*ns and calling Hearts (another side with a historic Protestant support) the Mini-h*ns.

This is an illegal slur on a religious faith, no more no less and any Rangers fan who refer to themselves as such should be fucking ashamed.

Not just Hearts but Airdrie, Dundee, Killmarnock and Motherwell too, but I agree he could have stuck the knife more however thats not his game which seperates him from the likes of Phil the fool and co. I'm sure however there will be more articles abouts similar issues coming from him soon.

[pcbear 10,913]

I remember clearly at any old firm fixture when we were ahead near the final whistle and the tims were streaming out, "go home ya H***, go home ya H***" was the chant from the bears towards them, when did that change? and tell me i never dreamt that, late 70's early 80's ish time.

[devref 201]

I remember clearly at any old firm fixture when we were ahead near the final whistle and the tims were streaming out, "go home ya H***, go home ya H***" was the chant from the bears towards them, when did that change? and tell me i never dreamt that, late 70's early 80's ish time.

not was no dream i can remember that as well as the other song that finished "if i had a tommy gun i,d shoot every F*nian hu* just for walking on our queens highway" and like you i cant remember when it was changed to mean us

[caseyjones 3,009]

I've been bleating about this for years now. They were still referred to as the H*** after Souness arrived. I don't know when the main body of the support gave it up, but many of us still carry it on in song to this day. Leggat should be asking which club had their ground closed following pro-German chants, and we should be reminding everyone of that too by taking the word back.

If they know their history!

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

I like Legget but he is selective with his history - its not like us Brits have never perpatrated a massacre nor done anything wrong to the detriment of the world ( like creating concentration camps).

The problem with this debate and articles like it (including some of own) is that we have blown this all out of proportion.

The Scotsman editor is right when he says (paraphrasing) we are losing all sense of fun and jokes can only be told behind closed doors.

Many on here have called me PC (as some sort of insult - go figure) but you have to be on the extremes of being PC to get as worked up as some of us have about the term H**!

[RFC55 104,183]

I like Legget but he is selective with his history - its not like us Brits have never perpatrated a massacre nor done anything wrong to the detriment of the world ( like creating concentration camps).

The problem with this debate and articles like it (including some of own) is that we have blown this all out of proportion.

The Scotsman editor is right when he says (paraphrasing) we are losing all sense of fun and jokes can only be told behind closed doors.

Many on here have called me PC (as some sort of insult - go figure) but you have to be on the extremes of being PC to get as worked up as some of us have about the term H**!

He is discussing the term H*** ffs not anything else.

You really have started getting on my tits, if you like being likened to the H*** then you are a fucking moron

[caseyjones 3,009]

I like Legget but he is selective with his history - its not like us Brits have never perpatrated a massacre nor done anything wrong to the detriment of the world ( like creating concentration camps).

The problem with this debate and articles like it (including some of own) is that we have blown this all out of proportion.

The Scotsman editor is right when he says (paraphrasing) we are losing all sense of fun and jokes can only be told behind closed doors.

Many on here have called me PC (as some sort of insult - go figure) but you have to be on the extremes of being PC to get as worked up as some of us have about the term H**!

Your just being obtuse. The people who you are referring to, have made it abundantly clear, on numerous occasions, that they have no real problem with the word in question, but they want to see parity from the media. Once there is a Taig/T*rrier/F*nian cartoon published, I'm positive that it will be 'job done'.

[caseyjones 3,009]

He is discussing the term H*** ffs not anything else.

You really have started getting on my tits, if you like being likened to the H*** then you are a fucking moron

What kept you?

[RFC55 104,183]

What kept you?

With some posters its easy to see that they have a different point of view, but never once have i seen him agree with anything. He likes to nit pick over everything.

The guy writes a good article describing the H*** and then he goes on about Britain? I dont get it.

[caseyjones 3,009]

With some posters its easy to see that they have a different point of view, but never once have i seen him agree with anything. He likes to nit pick over everything.

The guy writes a good article describing the H*** and then he goes on about Britain? I dont get it.

Exactly, mate. Britain has got nothing to do with the Leggat article, but when someone hates the 'Brits'.............

[WVB 2,560]

With some posters its easy to see that they have a different point of view, but never once have i seen him agree with anything. He likes to nit pick over everything.

The guy writes a good article describing the H*** and then he goes on about Britain? I dont get it.

Put the cunt on "ignore" (I am assuming we are talking about Bp9?), and don't engage it in conversation. It is, without a shadow of a doubt, deep undercover and is in no way one of us.

[RFC55 104,183]

Exactly, mate. Britain has got nothing to do with the Leggat article, but when someone hates the 'Brits'.............

they want "them out now"

[RFC55 104,183]

Put the cunt on "ignore" (I am assuming we are talking about Bp9?), and don't engage it in conversation. It is, without a shadow of a doubt, deep undercover and is in no way one of us.

Would it be anyone else? In these type of threads its always the same one

[*Manticore* 1,893]

He is discussing the term H*** ffs not anything else.

You really have started getting on my tits, if you like being likened to the H*** then you are a fucking moron

Do you think that idiot's saying that the UK invented concentration camps?

Probably.

He's wrong about most things.

[Jimbo. 952]

I like Legget but he is selective with his history - its not like us Brits have never perpatrated a massacre nor done anything wrong to the detriment of the world ( like creating concentration camps).

And that has what to do with the origin of the word 'H**' exactly?

The problem with this debate and articles like it (including some of own) is that we have blown this all out of proportion.

The Scotsman editor is right when he says (paraphrasing) we are losing all sense of fun and jokes can only be told behind closed doors.

Many on here have called me PC (as some sort of insult - go figure) but you have to be on the extremes of being PC to get as worked up as some of us have about the term H**!

Just out of interest, if someone called your wife a fenion, taig, pape etc...would she see the funny side in that?

More to the point, as her husband, would you?

[AMMS 27]

Sorry to be a pedant but Attila didn't come from Mongolia. I think he's getting Attila and Genghis Khan confused. As you were.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

And that has what to do with the origin of the word 'H**' exactly?

Just out of interest, if someone called your wife a fenion, taig, pape etc...would she see the funny side in that?

More to the point, as her husband, would you?

Well my wife is from Norther Ireland and a strong believer in god and church (and has has a season ticket for 23 years) so she would have her own views on that - but she has never objected to me calling her 'H***' as in 'Had a good day H***'? but then my wife does not get so worked up about these things as many on here do - she has a sense of perspective. I suppose you have no timmy mates ? but many of us who do call them, well 'Tim, Timmy, F*nian Scum Beadrattlers etc. and they have the wit to retort 'fk of you H** bastard' and then get the pints in. I centainly dont moan at them about calling me (or my wife that) but then again its all context and most who complain have lost that sense of context!

[Jimbo. 952]

Well my wife is from Norther Ireland and a strong believer in god and church (and has has a season ticket for 23 years) so she would have her own views on that - but she has never objected to me calling her 'H***' as in 'Had a good day H***'? but then my wife does not get so worked up about these things as many on here do - she has a sense of perspective. I suppose you have no timmy mates ? but many of us who do call them, well 'Tim, Timmy, F*nian Scum Beadrattlers etc. and they have the wit to retort 'fk of you H** bastard' and then get the pints in. I centainly dont moan at them about calling me (or my wife that) but then again its all context and most who complain have lost that sense of context!

So to clarify, if someone called your wife a F*nian...you'd be fine with that?

Does she mind your lack of backbone?

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Sorry to be a pedant but Attila didn't come from Mongolia. I think he's getting Attila and Genghis Khan confused. As you were.

Sorry, in turn for also being a pedant, but I don't think we know exactly where Attila came from. Somewhere round about Hungary is probs the best bet.

But Mongolia is a one of a number of areas mooted as the location of origin of the H***.

So Leggo may well be correct, albeit probably by accident.

[Jimbo. 952]

Sorry, in turn for also being a pedant, but I don't think we know exactly where Attila came from. Somewhere round about Hungary is probs the best bet.

But Mongolia is a one of a number of areas mooted as the location of origin of the H***.

So Leggo may well be correct, albeit probably by accident.

I thought Attila came from Monaco.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

So to clarify, if someone called your wife a F*nian...you'd be fine with that?

Does she mind your lack of backbone?

If someone called my wife F*nian she would laugh at how absurd that notion was. Oh and my wife is well capable of looking afterherself - she doent need to be patronised and protected by me.

Its all about context - if you want to jump up and down and get all offended at slurs implied or otherwise then thats fine by me carry on an I will carry on wondering why some of our support have jumped onto the perpetually offended wagon.

[KingKai 437]

Well my wife is from Norther Ireland and a strong believer in god and church (and has has a season ticket for 23 years) so she would have her own views on that - but she has never objected to me calling her 'H***' as in 'Had a good day H***'? but then my wife does not get so worked up about these things as many on here do - she has a sense of perspective. I suppose you have no timmy mates ? but many of us who do call them, well 'Tim, Timmy, F*nian Scum Beadrattlers etc. and they have the wit to retort 'fk of you H** bastard' and then get the pints in. I centainly dont moan at them about calling me (or my wife that) but then again its all context and most who complain have lost that sense of context!

I gotta laugh at this...!

Im sure the H** you are talking about here is HON!! ( as everyone knows..short for Honey )

I really dont know how you could mix them up..