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Lessons from the Battle of Tannenberg


D'Artagnan
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The Battle of Tannenberg in the First World War is often hailed as a beacon of old style warfare facing modern warfare. The cavalry charges of the Russians proved no match for the new heavy machine guns of the German Army. It is also perhaps worthy of note that the Germans exploited disunity between Russian Generals to further their cause.

Changing times, changing technology, have caused armies to have to adapt and adopt different strategies from their predecessors.

I remember many years ago on the Follow Follow website the few discerning bears who highlighted what they felt was a concerted efforts by some to undermine our club at every opportunity. Their views were initially greeted with a mixture of disbelief and scorn. Thankfully however their regular highlighting of this issue, always supported by relevant supporting articles or facts gradually saw a great many of us (myself included) come to the realisation that they were in fact correct. Since then numerous articles and comments have meant only a very few now scorn at the idea of an anti-Rangers agenda.

However that was only the start of the battle. For another challenge then presented itself in how we responded.

Some felt that maintaining a “dignified silence†was the best course of action and most in character of Rangers FC. Responding to the media inferring certain journos had an anti-Rangers agenda was in the eyes of some…akin to “timmy paranoia†and that the best course of action was to ignore them and they would go away. Sadly that viewpoint is still held by those in power at Ibrox.

There might even have been a time when this was the best course of action….but like the Russian cavalry discovered at Tannenberg times change and so do enemies. A dignified silence might have had an impact on men of honour but not on the current crop, who at every opportunity fire their bullets from behind the safety of their desks and typewriters. We are no longer dealing with the likes of Bob Crampsey …but a group of weasels full of their own self-importance who care not for historical accuracy or journalistic integrity, but who make their name stirring controversy or printing lies or half . The have no shame…no journalistic integrity…and are not honourable enough to even apologise when they have been exposed in their inaccuracies.

But of course it does not stop with just the press. Many politicians appear to be happy to board the anti-Rangers band wagon…and its not confined to just one party….though Scottish Labour appear to be the prime mover behind many of the issues currently affecting our supporters. That said Donald Gorrie of the Scottish Liberals did a great impersonation of a Labour politician with his double standards, prevarication and failure to answer questions posed by a determined Bear. And of course there is the likes of Rosie Kane….I wouldn’t like to hazard a guess on her thoughts on Rangers….for those of you who didn’t realise she was an MSP…you are forgiven…Ms Kane tends to absent from Holyrood in protest if Her Majesty visits.

Blasting a defiant “No Surrender†at them isn’t likely to be very effective either. Its fine being defiant…but such defiance HAS to be matched by actions. The Russians cavalry’s bravery and at Tanneberg was commented on by several historical commentators but at the end of the day it was ineffective against an enemy who were fighting a different kind of war.

So just what is effective ?

Well the formation of the RST have given us a focal point and a platform to raise many of the concerns we have. I can only hope and pray that this organisation continues to grow daily, because the greater their membership, can only serve to increase their influence.

But it’s more than just a group of hard working volunteers doing the work for us. Every single one of us who has care about Rangers has a duty to learn how to be effective and to put such knowledge into practice.

And we have seen just how effective we can be.

Spiers fall from favour at the Herald was a milestone in our endeavours. And only recently McNee was publicly forced to climb down from his lies regarding the Bouncy. It’s not about making bold brash gestures of defiance…some of which as seen recently…only serve to exacerbate the situation for both supporters and club…its about determined individuals ensuring the take the time to challenge the lies in whatever form they appear. It may be a well written letter or e-mail, it may be about challenging a politician on your doorstep.

And it’s also time for others to stop their ridiculing of fellow Bears who take the trouble to write these letters and e-mails. For those who stand at the sidelines sniping…may I ask just what are you doing to defend our club ?

Whilst we have modernised in our thinking and actions to at least tackle the press the issue of the politicians remain largely unresolved. However perhaps the proposed RST conference in the summer, to which I understand a number are invited, may prove to be something of a turning point.

Then again perhaps not…but that is in no way a criticism of the RST plans…just a realisation of the duplicitous nature of our current crop of politicians.

I’m afraid not being a particular political animal I am not qualified to offer suggestions as to how we tackle this problem…but it needs to be tackled and I hope many of you can offer suggestions.

This war against our club is a long way from over….and although at times I despair at the setbacks…I’m encouraged that our army is at last becoming mobilised.

RANGERS FOREVER

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We need to respond in SOME way thats for sure and IMO SDM needs to lead the charge.

Included in that response however is RFC and the Supporters getting rid of the hardcore nutters of the BB and FTP brigade. Nazi style salutes must also go as they just give us a bad name.

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Yes some did have the foresight to see it coming, the big worry now is where it's leading, perhaps one day very few decent people will have the guts to publicly associate themselves with Rangers, such has been the amount of s*** thrown our way for far too long now. As bad as Murray's penny pinching ways have been in recent years I believe that his biggest mistake is the dignified silence that has allowed our enemies at home to grow in boldness until this wee country could no longer contain their hatred for us.

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How can we effectively respond when a substantial section of our fans shame our club on an almost weekly basis and the club does next to nothing about it?

Seems to me that the real issue of the dignified silence is the clubs failure to address our own fans transgressions

I have always said that we get our own house in order, then we can be a bit louder in our protestations.

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The point is that the standard we are judged by is different to the standard that septic are judged by, or does that not matter to you? Perhaps from Chicago our mhedia seem balanced and fair, but the truth is that they are not.

I couldn't give a monkeys ch*ff what other teams fans do and whether the media are fair or not. I only care about my club and that a section of our fans are bringing shame to it on a regular basis - does that not bother you at all?

If you are up in court for speeding, its no defense to say that other drivers speed too.

Lets rid our club of this element first and foremost, and then we can look elsewhere for equality - until then, we have no case

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UEFA are the most immediate danger to us and I doubt if they have an anti-Rangers agenda, though maybe some will claim that they're under the control of sinister forces nearer home. I wonder if some Feyenoord fans claim they were chucked out of Europe because of pro-Ajax factions?

By all means put reasonable points in favour of Rangers forward to the newspapers etc. I encourage people to do so. But claim there's a big Catholic conspiracy against us and you'll come across as a lunatic and a bigot.

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The Battle of Tannenberg in the First World War is often hailed as a beacon of old style warfare facing modern warfare. The cavalry charges of the Russians proved no match for the new heavy machine guns of the German Army. It is also perhaps worthy of note that the Germans exploited disunity between Russian Generals to further their cause.

Changing times, changing technology, have caused armies to have to adapt and adopt different strategies from their predecessors.

I remember many years ago on the Follow Follow website the few discerning bears who highlighted what they felt was a concerted efforts by some to undermine our club at every opportunity. Their views were initially greeted with a mixture of disbelief and scorn. Thankfully however their regular highlighting of this issue, always supported by relevant supporting articles or facts gradually saw a great many of us (myself included) come to the realisation that they were in fact correct. Since then numerous articles and comments have meant only a very few now scorn at the idea of an anti-Rangers agenda.

However that was only the start of the battle. For another challenge then presented itself in how we responded.

Some felt that maintaining a “dignified silence†was the best course of action and most in character of Rangers FC. Responding to the media inferring certain journos had an anti-Rangers agenda was in the eyes of some…akin to “timmy paranoia†and that the best course of action was to ignore them and they would go away. Sadly that viewpoint is still held by those in power at Ibrox.

There might even have been a time when this was the best course of action….but like the Russian cavalry discovered at Tannenberg times change and so do enemies. A dignified silence might have had an impact on men of honour but not on the current crop, who at every opportunity fire their bullets from behind the safety of their desks and typewriters. We are no longer dealing with the likes of Bob Crampsey …but a group of weasels full of their own self-importance who care not for historical accuracy or journalistic integrity, but who make their name stirring controversy or printing lies or half . The have no shame…no journalistic integrity…and are not honourable enough to even apologise when they have been exposed in their inaccuracies.

But of course it does not stop with just the press. Many politicians appear to be happy to board the anti-Rangers band wagon…and its not confined to just one party….though Scottish Labour appear to be the prime mover behind many of the issues currently affecting our supporters. That said Donald Gorrie of the Scottish Liberals did a great impersonation of a Labour politician with his double standards, prevarication and failure to answer questions posed by a determined Bear. And of course there is the likes of Rosie Kane….I wouldn’t like to hazard a guess on her thoughts on Rangers….for those of you who didn’t realise she was an MSP…you are forgiven…Ms Kane tends to absent from Holyrood in protest if Her Majesty visits.

Blasting a defiant “No Surrender†at them isn’t likely to be very effective either. Its fine being defiant…but such defiance HAS to be matched by actions. The Russians cavalry’s bravery and at Tanneberg was commented on by several historical commentators but at the end of the day it was ineffective against an enemy who were fighting a different kind of war.

So just what is effective ?

Well the formation of the RST have given us a focal point and a platform to raise many of the concerns we have. I can only hope and pray that this organisation continues to grow daily, because the greater their membership, can only serve to increase their influence.

But it’s more than just a group of hard working volunteers doing the work for us. Every single one of us who has care about Rangers has a duty to learn how to be effective and to put such knowledge into practice.

And we have seen just how effective we can be.

Spiers fall from favour at the Herald was a milestone in our endeavours. And only recently McNee was publicly forced to climb down from his lies regarding the Bouncy. It’s not about making bold brash gestures of defiance…some of which as seen recently…only serve to exacerbate the situation for both supporters and club…its about determined individuals ensuring the take the time to challenge the lies in whatever form they appear. It may be a well written letter or e-mail, it may be about challenging a politician on your doorstep.

And it’s also time for others to stop their ridiculing of fellow Bears who take the trouble to write these letters and e-mails. For those who stand at the sidelines sniping…may I ask just what are you doing to defend our club ?

Whilst we have modernised in our thinking and actions to at least tackle the press the issue of the politicians remain largely unresolved. However perhaps the proposed RST conference in the summer, to which I understand a number are invited, may prove to be something of a turning point.

Then again perhaps not…but that is in no way a criticism of the RST plans…just a realisation of the duplicitous nature of our current crop of politicians.

I’m afraid not being a particular political animal I am not qualified to offer suggestions as to how we tackle this problem…but it needs to be tackled and I hope many of you can offer suggestions.

This war against our club is a long way from over….and although at times I despair at the setbacks…I’m encouraged that our army is at last becoming mobilised.

RANGERS FOREVER

another great post i dont know where you keep producing them but they are all great stuff and as long as we have fans like you we will win the war.

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great post, there is much work to be done. We do have to get certain elements of our support in order.

There needs to be a clear distinction of what is right and what is wrong otherwise people will continue to look for wrong where there is none

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How can we effectively respond when a substantial section of our fans shame our club on an almost weekly basis and the club does next to nothing about it?

Seems to me that the real issue of the dignified silence is the clubs failure to address our own fans transgressions

I have always said that we get our own house in order, then we can be a bit louder in our protestations.

Absolute nonsense.

Not only individuals but even a whole supporters club has on occasion been banned sin die from Ibrox. Some of the troublemakers in Spain had life long bans from Ibrox.

The club has produced a whole policy to to tackle sectarianism including a songbook.

The club is actively involved in tackling sectarianism within schools and has won a number of awards.

The club has made stern examples of those players and officials caught in behaviour deemed bigotted.

The club have put plain clothes stewards amongst the fans to spot troublemakers.

The club have been praised by UEFA for the considerable efforts they have made in tackling sectarianism.

The club is actively recruiting both players and ex-legends to speak out publicly against sectarian singing.

How in the face of so much evidence can you suggest the club is doing nothing ? Why do you seek to tarnish the name of Rangers when the facts of the matter are overwhelming ?

Your irrational post in the face of conclusive evidence to the contrary is either poorly thought out or suggests you derive pleasure from slating Rangers.

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Interesting analogy, because if you take it to its logical conclusion we should also adapt and change and not launch into headlong attacks .

Almost right CD !

We do have to change and adapt. And in many way we have done and continue to do so.

However that should not stop anyone, particulalry those in charge at Ibrox of defending the club.

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Interesting analogy, because if you take it to its logical conclusion we should also adapt and change and not launch into headlong attacks .

Almost right CD !

We do have to change and adapt. And in many way we have done and continue to do so.

However that should not stop anyone, particulalry those in charge at Ibrox of defending the club.

Great thread (tu) .

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Just a word of advice for Minstral, I'm sure he can fight his own corner. I haven't said anything out of order and very rarely do on this board. Just I'm not one who praises you to the hilt D'A.

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Just a word of advice for Minstral, I'm sure he can fight his own corner. I haven't said anything out of order and very rarely do on this board. Just I'm not one who praises you to the hilt D'A.

Its actually got nothing to do with me or my posts IB. Its your constant decrying of fellow Bears...our club its traditions.

The other night when you were challenged on a point you had made, you stated you were too tired to respond....allegedly. That didnt stop you a few minutes later, hanging on Justiton's coat tails as he attempted to ridicule Minstral.

You constantly tell us how you despise our country's flag and the traditions of this club...in fact you even suggested a while back we should be more like Celtic and have a mission statement. (PS Im still waiting for an answer on that one re the poppy question I posed you)

So insomuch as you have attempted to criticise Minstral for being pro-Rangers...perhaps you should learn to expect a taste of your own medicine back at you.

I dont care if Minstral can fight his own corner or not....you have attacked a fellow Bear for merely expressing his opinion and then sought to ridicule him...you obviously are not au fait with the concept of defending fellow Bears...its what we do at Rangers.

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How can we effectively respond when a substantial section of our fans shame our club on an almost weekly basis and the club does next to nothing about it?

Seems to me that the real issue of the dignified silence is the clubs failure to address our own fans transgressions

I have always said that we get our own house in order, then we can be a bit louder in our protestations.

Absolute nonsense.

Not only individuals but even a whole supporters club has on occasion been banned sin die from Ibrox. Some of the troublemakers in Spain had life long bans from Ibrox.

The club has produced a whole policy to to tackle sectarianism including a songbook.

The club is actively involved in tackling sectarianism within schools and has won a number of awards.

The club has made stern examples of those players and officials caught in behaviour deemed bigotted.

The club have put plain clothes stewards amongst the fans to spot troublemakers.

The club have been praised by UEFA for the considerable efforts they have made in tackling sectarianism.

The club is actively recruiting both players and ex-legends to speak out publicly against sectarian singing.

How in the face of so much evidence can you suggest the club is doing nothing ? Why do you seek to tarnish the name of Rangers when the facts of the matter are overwhelming ?

Your irrational post in the face of conclusive evidence to the contrary is either poorly thought out or suggests you derive pleasure from slating Rangers.

Not quite right DA, I never said the club has done nothing, I said "next to nothing"

What little we have done is quite clearly ineffectual - we still have a significant number of fans bringing shame on the club on a weekly basis. Not until we start banning thousands from Ibrox will we start making inroads. Public service announcements and school visits do no good, as the kids still have to go home to their bigoted fathers at the end of the day.

No, take away season tickets en masse and ban everyone who shames our club - even the ones who only go to away games, ban them from football grounds everywhere like the English did with hooligans 20 years ago. it's the only way

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Just a word of advice for Minstral, I'm sure he can fight his own corner. I haven't said anything out of order and very rarely do on this board. Just I'm not one who praises you to the hilt D'A.

Its actually got nothing to do with me or my posts IB. Its your constant decrying of fellow Bears...our club its traditions.

The other night when you were challenged on a point you had made, you stated you were too tired to respond....allegedly. That didnt stop you a few minutes later, hanging on Justiton's coat tails as he attempted to ridicule Minstral.

You constantly tell us how you despise our country's flag and the traditions of this club...in fact you even suggested a while back we should be more like Celtic and have a mission statement. (PS Im still waiting for an answer on that one re the poppy question I posed you)

So insomuch as you have attempted to criticize Minstral for being pro-Rangers...perhaps you should learn to expect a taste of your own medicine back at you.

I don't care if Minstral can fight his own corner or not....you have attacked a fellow Bear for merely expressing his opinion and then sought to ridicule him...you obviously are not au fait with the concept of defending fellow Bears...its what we do at Rangers.

DA, this is a prime example why you will always get posts criticizing you. You said IB despises his countries flag. You NEVER even acknowledge that to the vast majority of Scots, the Union Jack is NOT our national flag. The St Andrews cross is. You actually seem to be intelligent but yet you can never seen to let that one go. You would get more sympathy if you just accepted what you cannot change mate

Also IB criticizes Minstral for being pro Rangers? Again, why did you post that when you know it isn't true? Mate, everyone on here is pro-Rangers, including IB and myself. We just have different views on what th club stands for today and what it should stand for in the years ahead. Again, you failing to acknowledge that id to your own detriment. And comments like the ones above just seem to be a case where you are trying to antagonize fellow Bears.

DA, if we simply defended fellow bears this board would be a boring place. Like it or not, we all have our own opinions, and one some issues, they might not even agree with yours. The sooner you realize that your posts will come over less antagonistic and maybe we will get some better debate on here

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Great post and great comparison. Although a 'war' comparison when its life or death is much more important than football, the context used was good. As for the argument, its the usual Rangers vs. Journalists/mhedia and the poor structure and little defence that we have from our own club. The RST have done a superb job but attracted attention towards a lot of issues that even Rangers would want to sweep under the carpet.

The solution? Is there one?

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"You constantly tell us how you despise our country's flag and the traditions of this club...in fact you even suggested a while back we should be more like Celtic and have a mission statement. (PS Im still waiting for an answer on that one re the poppy question I posed you)"

A Mission Statement is an integregal part of modern marketing strategy. They are very commonplace, the Post Office, political parties and many football clubs have them. Should the fact that Celtic have one deter us???

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"You constantly tell us how you despise our country's flag and the traditions of this club...in fact you even suggested a while back we should be more like Celtic and have a mission statement. (PS Im still waiting for an answer on that one re the poppy question I posed you)"

A Mission Statement is an integregal part of modern marketing strategy. They are very commonplace, the Post Office, political parties and many football clubs have them. Should the fact that Celtic have one deter us???

The Saltire and the Union flag in my opinion are both compatible. They should be flying alongside each other at Gretna Green. I love them both and as an expat - ahve both in my office and proud of same.

Re - a mission statement, i find it galling we don't have one - (gawd). I encountered the same issue in my current employ, no policies, no procedures, no statement of ethical principles - guess what, - big mouth - me is now writing them.

However, to know where one is going and how one is getting there - one needs a strategy - a vision, clarity, thereafter - one can set goal achievements.

I do not care who else may have one - we SHOULD have one and I believe this is a matter for SDM and Mr Bain, however, perhaps - likeacare, we should bring this to the attention of the RST. Good to raise the point. We both care.

Further, as a broad church, we need to value and respect the opinions of all our fellow brothers and sisters and like me, I'm sure you and DA will both concur.

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