Dingwell

[gunslinger 270]

Oh brilliant - just what the Protestant majority in Scotland needs.

A pillow-munching, knee-bending Ta-rrier apologist as Fiscal.

they are hard working and orgonised at this level.

we simply coast along on the other hand allowing it.

[CanadianBacon 2,088]

We all know it will be another "on message" individual who will do the bidding of those with an agenda.

The silent majority in this country needs its collective apathetic arse kicked.

A minority religious bigoted sect is holding power and control in the media, the legal system, parliament and the trade unions.

There's a line somewhere that says, "All it requires for evil to succeed is for good people do do nothing!"

(or some such)

Never truer than Scotland in 2010.

[RM Monitor And Standards Officer 112,879]

your right in every part of that.

looking at the link from the procurator fiscal i always post it seems the blood part is also an issue.

you would need to take that out as well.

i would love us to move to a song along the same lines about rangers and not a razor gang. the words have changed before why not again.

your right as well about the double standards and alot of that is the press. we have a huge problem in this country in that we as rangers fans support the media financially that hates us.

ornage bastards

h** whatever

every bit as bad.

ayr blood a breach of the peace as well. not religiously agrivated but a breach none the less in the right circumstance.

Gunslinger has there ever been any other fan kicked out any stadium in world football for singing about being up to their knees in team x blood? Thats a genuine question btw!

As i say gunslinger i see no difference in fenian or any other blood but maybe thats just me and im not an ultra sensitive person. I dont see why it would be ok to wade through every other type of bllod as long as its not fenian, but nobody seems able to answer that. Unless i get the fenian means catholic as thats the only explanation. So say it does mean that how can it be said that Rangers fans want to be up to their knees in catholic blood, yet when Killie/Hearts/Man u/Dundee/Dundee utd/Man utd/Man city/Liverpool and everyone else its just a laugh.

It just goes round and round and round and round with nobody able to give a diffinitive answer. I would love to tackle this issue but im not the right perosn to do so, nor wuld i be able to.

[ZX750 31]

simply the best was in ossasuna and the bottle thing was also a seperate charge.

hibie blood isnt a sectarian breach but it is a breach of the peace in the right circumstance.

Its singing songs about a certain group of people though no matter whos blood yer up to yer knees in, thats why it can't continue to be sung by others and not by us.

[RM Monitor And Standards Officer 112,879]

Its singing songs about a certain group of people though no matter whos blood yer up to yer knees in, thats why it can't continue to be sung by others and not by us.

Thats what ive been saying aswell mate. Apparently we literally want every catholic dead and wish to be up to our knees in their blood ( ) yet its just banter if anyone else wants to be up to their knees in a set of supporters blood

[gunslinger 270]

Gunslinger has there ever been any other fan kicked out any stadium in world football for singing about being up to their knees in team x blood? Thats a genuine question btw!

As i say gunslinger i see no difference in fenian or any other blood but maybe thats just me and im not an ultra sensitive person. I dont see why it would be ok to wade through every other type of bllod as long as its not fenian, but nobody seems able to answer that. Unless i get the fenian means catholic as thats the only explanation. So say it does mean that how can it be said that Rangers fans want to be up to their knees in catholic blood, yet when Killie/Hearts/Man u/Dundee/Dundee utd/Man utd/Man city/Liverpool and everyone else its just a laugh.

It just goes round and round and round and round with nobody able to give a diffinitive answer. I would love to tackle this issue but im not the right perosn to do so, nor wuld i be able to.

on the first question the answer is i dont know. your realisticaly talking about such a huge number of incidences that the answer is probably yes but it could easily be no.

theirs a mild diference between fenian blood and ayr etc blood.

both could be breaches of the peace fenian blood could be breaks with a religious motivation.

you would need to prove that someone hearing it would likley be alarmed and even then you would need the right justice probably to get a conviction.

i have actually changed my mind we should do what we want untill some action is taken. thats what everyone else does.

that said i would be careful what i said on the street and such and be a bit sensible in the stadium.

the clever thing to do would be to change the words of the billy boys. i cant see even uefa getting involved in that even assuming they did ban the tune.

for example the edu version. there is no way they would say a word about it.

even murray commented on the shocking double standards in an article i came accross recently. bain has as well i think.

[gunslinger 270]

Its singing songs about a certain group of people though no matter whos blood yer up to yer knees in, thats why it can't continue to be sung by others and not by us.

agreed its a breach of the peace as i said.

[RM Monitor And Standards Officer 112,879]

on the first question the answer is i dont know. your realisticaly talking about such a huge number of incidences that the answer is probably yes but it could easily be no.

theirs a mild diference between fenian blood and ayr etc blood.

both could be breaches of the peace fenian blood could be breaks with a religious motivation.

you would need to prove that someone hearing it would likley be alarmed and even then you would need the right justice probably to get a conviction.

i have actually changed my mind we should do what we want untill some action is taken. thats what everyone else does.

that said i would be careful what i said on the street and such and be a bit sensible in the stadium.

the clever thing to do would be to change the words of the billy boys. i cant see even uefa getting involved in that even assuming they did ban the tune.

for example the edu version. there is no way they would say a word about it.

even murray commented on the shocking double standards in an article i came accross recently. bain has as well i think.

There is no Edu version, we just sing Edu edu edu edu edu. To the same tune.

Why do you keep mentioning the law? I dont get it? If 4,000 away Rangers fans sing TBB the police as has been shown will not interfere. They havent done so far to my knowledge, nor will they.

Im talking about UEFA and the "banning" of the song. It has been Rangers who have done so and Rangers only and they have said that its every version

[gunslinger 270]

There is no Edu version, we just sing Edu edu edu edu edu. To the same tune.

Why do you keep mentioning the law? I dont get it? If 4,000 away Rangers fans sing TBB the police as has been shown will not interfere. They havent done so far to my knowledge, nor will they.

Im talking about UEFA and the "banning" of the song. It has been Rangers who have done so and Rangers only and they have said that its every version

we should change the words and test uefa

[RM Monitor And Standards Officer 112,879]

we should change the words and test uefa

Why when the official version was sung in Valencia and at OT during the game

[Adoniram 1,919]

Getting back to the OP.

Can Dingwall prove the letter is genuine or not?

Did he see it for himself?

If he didn't see it and either through FF or the RST he has stated that it is banned then he should resign from the RST should he not?

[gunslinger 270]

Why when the official version was sung in Valencia and at OT during the game

as much as anything because its a bastardisation of the actual official version. coupled with the fact its about a razor gang not the rangers.

but mostly so we can all sing it and at ibrox as well. whithout sanction from uefa

[gunslinger 270]

Getting back to the OP.

Can Dingwall prove the letter is genuine or not?

Did he see it for himself?

If he didn't see it and either through FF or the RST he has stated that it is banned then he should resign from the RST should he not?

he has not seen it and he has only stated he believes it to be banned.

his exact turn of phrase to me was lets leave the rediculous conspiracy theories to them

[Frankie 505]

Given the letter's existence can't be proved either way, there's more chance of Walter Smith becoming the new Motherwell manager than MD resigning anytime soon.

The Trust seem to have taken on a less public strategy at the moment (concentrating their work through Facebook and Twitter) so it may be he leaves naturally over the coming months as they look to refresh their outlook ahead of a potential new owner.

The RST should be a big player when it comes to any ownership debate. For that to be the case, they need to be more credible than they've ever been. That will require just as many boardroom changes there as will be at Rangers.

[2bob 3]

My legal bent had me re-read the Uefa directives in their entirety, it didn't take long to find the answer in the mechanics of the directives. UEFA have deliberately shot themselves in the head over this, for no other reason that they are and have washed their collective hands of the situation, they have given anyone who has the slightest of legal knowledge , every available help to challenge and overturn UEFA's own winning partial or otherwise appeal.

The answer is here.

Social and historical context

Given this social and historical context, the Control & Disciplinary Body said it considered that UEFA cannot demand an end to behaviour which has been tolerated for years. In view of the above, the Control & Disciplinary Body ruled that, despite the behaviour of its supporters, Rangers FC had not infringed Article 5 of the UEFA Disciplinary Regulations (click here) and cannot be punished according to Article 6

[gunslinger 270]

My legal bent had me re-read the Uefa directives in their entirety, it didn't take long to find the answer in the mechanics of the directives. UEFA have deliberately shot themselves in the head over this, for no other reason that they are and have washed their collective hands of the situation, they have given anyone who has the slightest of legal knowledge , every available help to challenge and overturn UEFA's own winning partial or otherwise appeal.

The answer is here.

Social and historical context

Given this social and historical context, the Control & Disciplinary Body said it considered that UEFA cannot demand an end to behaviour which has been tolerated for years. In view of the above, the Control & Disciplinary Body ruled that, despite the behaviour of its supporters, Rangers FC had not infringed Article 5 of the UEFA Disciplinary Regulations (click here) and cannot be punished according to Article 6

all very well if that wasnt overturned on appeal. as has been pointed out many times in this thread and others.

[Frankie 505]

My legal bent had me re-read the Uefa directives in their entirety, it didn't take long to find the answer in the mechanics of the directives. UEFA have deliberately shot themselves in the head over this, for no other reason that they are and have washed their collective hands of the situation, they have given anyone who has the slightest of legal knowledge , every available help to challenge and overturn UEFA's own winning partial or otherwise appeal.

The answer is here.

Social and historical context

Given this social and historical context, the Control & Disciplinary Body said it considered that UEFA cannot demand an end to behaviour which has been tolerated for years. In view of the above, the Control & Disciplinary Body ruled that, despite the behaviour of its supporters, Rangers FC had not infringed Article 5 of the UEFA Disciplinary Regulations (click here) and cannot be punished according to Article 6

The initial UEFA appeal by Kapl cannot be challenged/overturned under their rules.

Of course if there was a new investigation because of a different warrant in the future, then I'm sure the clarification above would be used. Unfortunately the club have shown little appetite for this; preferring to proscribe the song in question.

I have little doubt UEFA couldn't care less about the song but they've already capitulated under pressure from journalists/fan groups/politians/their own delegates so playing Russian Roulette in this manner is indeed risky if our bluff is called.

[gunslinger 270]

trying to ger mark dingwall to resign over something he never said is pathetic by the way.

[RM Monitor And Standards Officer 112,879]

all very well if that wasnt overturned on appeal. as has been pointed out many times in this thread and others.

Altho had Rangers appealed that we could have won that. But then again we will never know.

Anyway Uefa post letter to Rangers, Rangers recieve letter and it says TBB is banned. Rangers flash letter seductively infront of a group of Rangers fans who can confrim it is/isnt banned yet they havent read it?

Easy solution - Rangers dig out letter and post the UEFA findings on the homepage of the club and that way every single fan knows what the fucks going on

[MrSifter 181]

Given the letter's existence can't be proved either way, there's more chance of Walter Smith becoming the new Motherwell manager than MD resigning anytime soon.

The Trust seem to have taken on a less public strategy at the moment (concentrating their work through Facebook and Twitter) so it may be he leaves naturally over the coming months as they look to refresh their outlook ahead of a potential new owner.

The RST should be a big player when it comes to any ownership debate. For that to be the case, they need to be more credible than they've ever been. That will require just as many boardroom changes there as will be at Rangers.

Is there an ownership debate? If someone has the funding and Murray wants to sell then no supporter body will come into the equation.

Dingwall is highly unlikely to leave the RST board. I was at the meeting (in the room up the stair at Annie Millers) when the formation of it was discussed and it was clear even then that he intended keeping a tight grip on it.

[Frankie 505]

all very well if that wasnt overturned on appeal. as has been pointed out many times in this thread and others.

I think the chap is suggesting the appeal is appealed...

I believe Rangers did consider this at the time but could not do so under UEFA rules. What they should have done is taken the decision to the CAS but decided on the avenue of least resistance (and cost).

[RM Monitor And Standards Officer 112,879]

trying to ger mark dingwall to resign over something he never said is pathetic by the way.

But he did lie about ££££££££

[gunslinger 270]

The initial UEFA appeal by Kapl cannot be challenged/overturned under their rules.

Of course if there was a new investigation because of a different warrant in the future, then I'm sure the clarification above would be used. Unfortunately the club have shown little appetite for this; preferring to proscribe the song in question.

I have little doubt UEFA couldn't care less about the song but they've already capitulated under pressure from journalists/fan groups/politians/their own delegates so playing Russian Roulette in this manner is indeed risky if our bluff is called.

given uefas desire to wash their hands of the celtic h** fiasco. i suspect they want nothing more to do with this issue.

they may well make the sfa do something but thats scetchy.

[Frankie 505]

Is there an ownership debate? If someone has the funding and Murray wants to sell then no supporter body will come into the equation.

Of course the support (or indeed shareholders) have minimal sway in any ownership deal. If Murray wants to sell, he'll do so and we can do little to oppose/support any one bid.

However, I'd hope that any new owner would be keen to work with supporters in order to revitalise the club. Property deals and land-bank improvements would require our investment each match-day and beyond.

Any supporters group worthy of the description would want to be part of that debate. And they should be actively working towards that already.

[Adoniram 1,919]

My legal bent had me re-read the Uefa directives in their entirety, it didn't take long to find the answer in the mechanics of the directives. UEFA have deliberately shot themselves in the head over this, for no other reason that they are and have washed their collective hands of the situation, they have given anyone who has the slightest of legal knowledge , every available help to challenge and overturn UEFA's own winning partial or otherwise appeal.

The answer is here.

Social and historical context

Given this social and historical context, the Control & Disciplinary Body said it considered that UEFA cannot demand an end to behaviour which has been tolerated for years. In view of the above, the Control & Disciplinary Body ruled that, despite the behaviour of its supporters, Rangers FC had not infringed Article 5 of the UEFA Disciplinary Regulations (click here) and cannot be punished according to Article 6

Rangers FC are the only body that can challenge this directive given that it was aimed soley at them and the fans.

Rangers FC do not and will not condone the singing of the Billy Boys therefore the points you make although valid are neutered due to our unwillingness to challenge such an issue.

To challenge it now will see Rangers hammered from pillar to post and the negativity of the media and politicians means that we will be seen throughout the world as a club that condones bigotry.

Like it or not that is the issue facing Rangers and the Support thanks to our unwillingness to challenge this properly when it first happened.

I think if we did sing the Billy Boys at a European Game on a sustained basis we would be up in front of UEFA thanks to our previous charges and the influence our media and politicians would put on UEFA to charge us.

I do however think that if we continue to sing it in Scotland nothing will happen except the usual gnashing of teeth and bleating from the usual suspects.