Is this the way forward

[Gillete 1,338]

I think he was in social care and moved to ireland

[Brubear 2,905]

Just been talking with an extremely close family member who works for one of the big four accountancy/tax/business services companies and they have been looking at the current situation at Rangers and they have come up with a frightening scenario based on what they know and have been led to believe.

1. Craig White has not cleared the Rangers debt, he has bought it from Lloyds TSB, and Rangers now owe the money to him.

2. He is now Rangers’s main creditor so in effect he could call in the “loan” at any time dependant upon the “deal” he has in place.

3. If the tax case goes pear shaped Rangers will be in a position to claim on their tax advisors who will have professional liability insurance, that is assuming Rangers took their advice and it is documented.

4. If Rangers lose the case and have no claim against their advisors for whatever reason, Rangers go into administration and take the 10 point penalty.

5. Rangers then pay off whatever they can to their creditors and whatever is left(next to nothing) goes to HMRC.

6. Rangers raise again as Glasgow Rangers or whatever, we are debt free and Craig White still owns us.

7. CW can then rebuild the stadium and playing staff etc. and sell us on for a profit.

I hasten to add this is all complete speculation of course

Thoughts?

1 obvious flaw. Ponit 5, HMRC would be first creditor before the others, unless they have changed the law, hopefully the rest of the inside information is as accurate.

[TheLawMan 6,240]

HMRC are the last preferential creditor.

[j1mgg 3,766]

I use to work for one of the big four, not as an accountant though and my partner is also a CA who has worked for the same company and your post is pure speculation and can be compared to to what if dermot Desmond pulled his money out of Celtic, then they would also be fucked, the same scenario at hearts could happen.

[Nikica Jelavic 41]

Just been talking with an extremely close family member who works for one of the big four accountancy/tax/business services companies and they have been looking at the current situation at Rangers and they have come up with a frightening scenario based on what they know and have been led to believe.

1. Craig White has not cleared the Rangers debt, he has bought it from Lloyds TSB, and Rangers now owe the money to him.

2. He is now Rangers’s main creditor so in effect he could call in the “loan” at any time dependant upon the “deal” he has in place.

3. If the tax case goes pear shaped Rangers will be in a position to claim on their tax advisors who will have professional liability insurance, that is assuming Rangers took their advice and it is documented.

4. If Rangers lose the case and have no claim against their advisors for whatever reason, Rangers go into administration and take the 10 point penalty.

5. Rangers then pay off whatever they can to their creditors and whatever is left(next to nothing) goes to HMRC.

6. Rangers raise again as Glasgow Rangers or whatever, we are debt free and Craig White still owns us.

7. CW can then rebuild the stadium and playing staff etc. and sell us on for a profit.

I hasten to add this is all complete speculation of course

Thoughts?

I can feel his pain mate.

[gunslinger 270]

There is so much wrong with the points your 'close family member' makes in the OP that it is hard to know where to start. I know plenty CAs in big four firms that are, eh, not nearly as good as they think they are. Your 'close family member' appears to be one of them.

Best thing you can do is to ignore them the next time.

would you say its possible perhaps even sensible for whyte to have set himself up as rangers main creditor?

[TheLawMan 6,240]

I use to work for one of the big four, not as an accountant though and my partner is also a CA who has worked for the same company and your post is pure speculation and can be compared to to what if dermot Desmond pulled his money out of Celtic, then they would also be fucked, the same scenario at hearts could happen.

Agree with Hearts but disagree with Desmond. Desmond hasnt put a penny into the other mob in years. If he sold his shares, it wouldnt make a blind bit of diference to them the now.

What DOES make a difference though is another year without CL money. This is affecting their ever-spiralling debt they hide away in Current Liabilities that you never hear about come AGM time.

[luv2CtheRANGERSscore 3]

My issue with this is Craig whyte would have to have been living on his own plannet to even contemplate doing this and if he has he will need his own plannet to be safe it's more than just a game to some people

There are a hundred possible financial goings on. IMO the simplest is usually correct the hmrc case is flawed somehow and whyte has seen a way to make money from Rangers FC without all this conspiracy nonsense

[Dennis 1,011]

Just been talking with an extremely close family member who works for one of the big four accountancy/tax/business services companies and they have been looking at the current situation at Rangers and they have come up with a frightening scenario based on what they know and have been led to believe.

1. Craig White has not cleared the Rangers debt, he has bought it from Lloyds TSB, and Rangers now owe the money to him.

2. He is now Rangers’s main creditor so in effect he could call in the “loan” at any time dependant upon the “deal” he has in place.

3. If the tax case goes pear shaped Rangers will be in a position to claim on their tax advisors who will have professional liability insurance, that is assuming Rangers took their advice and it is documented.

4. If Rangers lose the case and have no claim against their advisors for whatever reason, Rangers go into administration and take the 10 point penalty.

5. Rangers then pay off whatever they can to their creditors and whatever is left(next to nothing) goes to HMRC.

6. Rangers raise again as Glasgow Rangers or whatever, we are debt free and Craig White still owns us.

7. CW can then rebuild the stadium and playing staff etc. and sell us on for a profit.

I hasten to add this is all complete speculation of course

Thoughts?

Its fill maghobblgiver

[djbroxybear 660]

My issue with this is Craig whyte would have to have been living on his own plannet to even contemplate doing this and if he has he will need his own plannet to be safe it's more than just a game to some people

There are a hundred possible financial goings on. IMO the simplest is usually correct the hmrc case is flawed somehow and whyte has seen a way to make money from Rangers FC without all this conspiracy nonsense

Spot on mate, too many posts i am reading on here are underestimating Craig Whyte and questioning his ability to take Rangers forward, give the guy a chance to see what he does.

[luv2CtheRANGERSscore 3]

What gives it away for me is the way he has went out of his way and dealt with the media, lawyers letters and forced apologises why bother if his plan is to rip us off or walk away for a quick buck it's a bit to elaborate for me

[trueblue68 2,497]

Theoretical nonsense it could just as well be the exact opposite

[jimmy98 17]

Just been talking with an extremely close family member who works for one of the big four accountancy/tax/business services companies and they have been looking at the current situation at Rangers and they have come up with a frightening scenario based on what they know and have been led to believe.

1. Craig White has not cleared the Rangers debt, he has bought it from Lloyds TSB, and Rangers now owe the money to him.

2. He is now Rangers’s main creditor so in effect he could call in the “loan” at any time dependant upon the “deal” he has in place.

3. If the tax case goes pear shaped Rangers will be in a position to claim on their tax advisors who will have professional liability insurance, that is assuming Rangers took their advice and it is documented.

4. If Rangers lose the case and have no claim against their advisors for whatever reason, Rangers go into administration and take the 10 point penalty.

5. Rangers then pay off whatever they can to their creditors and whatever is left(next to nothing) goes to HMRC.

6. Rangers raise again as Glasgow Rangers or whatever, we are debt free and Craig White still owns us.

7. CW can then rebuild the stadium and playing staff etc. and sell us on for a profit.

I hasten to add this is all complete speculation of course

Thoughts?

Unlikely. Under this worst case scenario Whyte would in effect have ended up bearing the full cost of repaying the Lloyds debt, only to walk away with a big risk of seeing the club in Administration anyway. Yes he would own it after administration, and he would feel like a bloody fool. If administration were even a remote risk, why not just wait until after it had happened and then buy the club for pittence without giving £20+ million to Lloyds? You wouldn't pay £20m for a business that was about to be worth nothing. Not if it were a serious risk.

I would be shocked if Whyte hasn't secured an indemnity from SDM for at least some of the potential tax liability if we did lose the case. Even if he is confident we will win it. It just isn't normal for a venture capitalist to buy a business and knowingly take on a massive risk that was all the doing of the previous owner. VC's are not all as clever as they think at managing business's - but most of them are experts at buying companies without getting screwed from the previous regime.

A VC would never take on a risk like this in the knowledge that 'we can sue the tax advisors in worst case'. Even in a successful lawsuit they would only recoup a small amount of the tax charge. Advisors always operate with a liability cap with limits the amount they can be sued for. And in any event it is not easy to sue the advisors.

Thousands of people work for these big 4 firms. Only a small % of the more senior big 4 employees are real experts, and even those who are would just be speculating on this. Apart from those actually involved in it, and they will not be letting little comments slip since it is so highly sensitive.

I'm sure septics forums are full of 28 year old 'tax experts' who may be managers or even senior managers at one of the big four. They may also be 23 year old assistants. None of them know sh*t so don't worry about it. Whyte didn't spend 7 months of due diligence to play roulette with a tax liability that could bankrupt the club.

[BallochBear 1,613]

Someone can keep me right, but isn't the OP an acquaintance of Speirs?

Yes and no, I haven't had any contact with Britney this year.

[Ibroxblue 122]

Mr Whyte is due to give more financial information to shareholders by June 6. Hopefully things will become clearer then.

[harry handsome 629]

Only read the 1st page so sorry if i am repeating anyone elses POV.

Rangers dont owe Lloyds FACT

The debt that Rangers had exists in some form with another organisation FACT

Rangers are currently going through a Tax case, no one knows the outcome of this case yet FACT

Rangers have just won No 54 FACT

We are and always will be the people FACT

Irrespective of how things are relayed to us by those in the know it is all speculation FACT.

Taking all this into consideration, look at what we wanted and where we are.

We wanted rid of SDM and released from the shackles of Lloyds and we wanted to be able to operate in the transfer market, this is all happening now. We have just had possibly our best league win ever overshadowed by Lennons carry on and now we have people stirring it up with the Tax case, the debt transfer etc

Lighten up and take a step back until more information is available, this boy Whyte is a venture capitalist he isnt in it for the glory, as history shows these guys know how to make a buck, thats good enough for me until more info is made public.

If and when the info does hit the public domian then everyone can have their say.

[forlanssister 157]

The reason Craig Whyte declined to pay off the LBG term loan but rather bought it and the security that went with it is simply because he is not an idiot only an idiot would have paid it off at this stage.

A favourable resolution of the tax case will see the debt "waived" an unfavourable resolution won't.

He's protecting himself by not paying it off at this stage, I'd be more concerned if he had actually paid it off.

All will be revealed (hopefully)in seven days when we shareholders receive our "circular".

[theySTILLKNOW 80]

Sweet lord,he is a couple of weeks in to his reign,why do some people see problems where NONE exist?

[The Hammer 11 2,571]

If its and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry fucking christmas now shut yer hole!

[caseyjones 3,009]

Sweet lord,he is a couple of weeks in to his reign,why do some people see problems where NONE exist?

You don't know that problems don't exist, nobody does. The May 16th, oops, June 6th announcement may shed some light on what is going on, or it may result in even more questions than answers. We shall see.

[theySTILLKNOW 80]

You don't know that problems don't exist, nobody does. The May 16th, oops, June 6th announcement may shed some light on what is going on, or it may result in even more questions than answers. We shall see.

That's what im saying Casey if there's a problem with Whyte then we will deal with it,I don't know any problems.

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

Some people must live their lives in a cloud of depression waiting for a bus to run them over

Whyte has just had meaningful talks with our new manager over signing targets

That's good enough for me

[Spacecowboy 92]

Thanks for your support mate, nowhere did I say it was going to happen, only that some of the world's leading experts think it's possible. My source who will obviously have to remain un-named is a fully qualified C.A. and C.T.A. so his company do know what they are doing when they advise on financial issues.

Is this the same company who think creditors get paid first and not HMRC?

Thank Fuck they dont advise RFC!

[Chesh 28]

Why people seem to believe that administration would only be ten points deducted is beyond me. Would it not mean demotion to Division Three like Gretna and Livingston - or was this only because they were already in Division One?

[TheLawMan 6,240]

Is this the same company who think creditors get paid first and not HMRC?

Thank Fuck they dont advise RFC!

Eh.........creditors do get paid first and not HMRC.

Thank Fuck you dont advise RFC!

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageExcise_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_00

"HMRC does not have preferential status in the distribution of the assets of an insolvent estate. The former Departments of Customs & Excise and Inland Revenue both lost preferential status on 15 September 2003 under the provisions of the Enterprise Act 2002."

Top of the chain is Secured Creditors

Then Fixed charge creditors

Then Floating charge creditors

Then preferential creditors(including other football clubs owed)

And HMRC are now below that level