If we get through the CL qualifiers...

[sdunsmb 43]

To be honest, I'm pretty concerned about the qualifiers.

We have what it takes to beat our possible opponents but there are some tricky ties potentially.

They come so early in the season and I think we are likely to lose one or two key players (boogy, shagger eg) and I'm sure we will bringing in 5 or 6 at least to strengthen which means a settling in period. Not to mention, it will be Allys first competitive games in charge.

Not meaning to be negative but I am looking forward to getting these games out the way already!

[TMB 14,167]

I'd rather see Ally get around £15m (the bulk) of that money this summer. That would allow Ally to get in the 5-6 players of real quality he needs to bolster the first team and squad. Next season we will have stiff competition from Celtic again and I think we need to make sure that we have the best 11. There was a few occasions last season when we got cuffed by Celtic and unless we strengthen the same shit could happen next season.

Quality players in a few positions we really need it:

Jelavic needs a quality striking partner,

we need a real left-winger,

we need a big powerful central defensive midfielder to complement Davis,

we need someone who can provide cover on both wings (like Conway),

we need two new CBs (and I hope on of them is Bartley on a long contract)

Give us that and we'll win 4IAR and give a good account of ourselves in the CL.

[SirWalterSmithLegend 206]

Lets hope so, his budget is set for now at £5m per year and i am assuming as that is a set budget that it is for participation and non participation in Europe. Our budgets will be worked out without guaranteed European money hopefully, as it alwasy should, meaning any money we do make from European football will be a bonus and reinvested in our team to make us even better.

[caseyjones 3,009]

meaning any money we do make from European football will be a bonus and reinvested in our team to make us even better.

That's not the way I read it. Hopefully this will all be clarified in the statement to shareholders and I'm proved wrong.

[Bluedell 14]

Lets hope so, his budget is set for now at £5m per year and i am assuming as that is a set budget that it is for participation and non participation in Europe. Our budgets will be worked out without guaranteed European money hopefully, as it alwasy should, meaning any money we do make from European football will be a bonus and reinvested in our team to make us even better.

I don't see how a budget can be produced showing us breaking even with no european football and spending £5m each year.

we are going to be loss making without CL football and much of the CL cash will go towards meeting that loss and paying for the £5m transfer budget, so I can't see how there will be much left to enhance the transfer budget.

[Plamf 39]

You got the title wrong mate,

If we get through the CL qualifiers... Will Mcoist get some of the £10M?

Should have been

When* we get through the CL qualifiers... Will Mcoist get some of the £10M?

Mcoist

[SirWalterSmithLegend 206]

I don't see how a budget can be produced showing us breaking even with no european football and spending £5m each year.

we are going to be loss making without CL football and much of the CL cash will go towards meeting that loss and paying for the £5m transfer budget, so I can't see how there will be much left to enhance the transfer budget.

Why would he promise us £5m a year then not knowing if we would have Euro football or not. We could fail to qualify for C.L. or E.L. for the next 5 years and get no European money, but Whyte has already stated McCoist will get at least £5m per year to spend. Surely Mr Whyte is not making the same mistake Murray made time after time, making budgets accounting for money which is not guaranteed?

Are we making a loss without it though? Surely our costs have been cut to a degree where we must be breaking even without Euro money. It not healthy to run a club with costs we cannot sustain, budgeting for money we may or may not get?

[SirWalterSmithLegend 206]

That's not the way I read it. Hopefully this will all be clarified in the statement to shareholders and I'm proved wrong.

Thats my theory/suggestion, not how Whyte has stated he will do things. Time will tell what he has planned.

[Jocky Broon 207]

I would have thought that when buying Rangers, Whyte will seek to completely re-engineer the Club in terms of income and expenditure so talk of what will happen to the CL income is a bit premature. The answer is probably that it will be included in the grand scheme of things and expenditure for Players and wages will be allocated from there.I think it would be a gross mistake to assume ot expect that income such as CL money will be dealt with differently to the rest of the Club's income.

[PaulRFC1 115]

Aye, he just has to click on "boardroom requests" and ask to have his transfer budget increased. If they don't he can repartition the wage budget.

[Guardian 4,281]

I would have thought that when buying Rangers, Whyte will seek to completely re-engineer the Club in terms of income and expenditure so talk of what will happen to the CL income is a bit premature. The answer is probably that it will be included in the grand scheme of things and expenditure for Players and wages will be allocated from there.I think it would be a gross mistake to assume ot expect that income such as CL money will be dealt with differently to the rest of the Club's income.

That is exactly what I was going to post. The club will have an income figure for the year. There will be expenditure. Only after all of that will they be able to put more towards the team. Hopefully that will be the case, and I'm sure it will, but it's important not to treat the CL money seperately, but as part of the overall income pot.

I would hope our days of Murray finding a bill for transfers we didn't know about, or a sudden tax bill HE didn't know about are all gone now and Rangers will get to keep hold of the cash.

[Getstiffed 8,863]

Have we recieved all the CL revenue from last season yet?

Unsure as to how UEFA handle distribution of those funds.

[Bluedell 14]

Why would he promise us £5m a year then not knowing if we would have Euro football or not. We could fail to qualify for C.L. or E.L. for the next 5 years and get no European money, but Whyte has already stated McCoist will get at least £5m per year to spend. Surely Mr Whyte is not making the same mistake Murray made time after time, making budgets accounting for money which is not guaranteed?

Good questions. The answers have still to be fully explained, but hopefully it will become clearer with the shareholder document next week.

Are we making a loss without it though? Surely our costs have been cut to a degree where we must be breaking even without Euro money. It not healthy to run a club with costs we cannot sustain, budgeting for money we may or may not get?

We got around £17m from Europe last season and only made a profit of £4m. We are a long way away from breaking even without Europe.

Possibly part of the reason why we were sold for only £1.

[SirWalterSmithLegend 206]

Good questions. The answers have still to be fully explained, but hopefully it will become clearer with the shareholder document next week.

We got around £17m from Europe last season and only made a profit of £4m. We are a long way away from breaking even without Europe.

Possibly part of the reason why we were sold for only £1.

Yes but did that not include huge repayments towards our debt though? Someone else posted figures showing there was just approx. £3m difference between our turnover and no Euro money and that was while our squad was bigger and costs were higher. There is not a chance in hell we are working to a £14m loss every year we dont get European money, i find that impossible to believe.

[Jocky Broon 207]

Yes but did that not include huge repayments towards our debt though? Someone else posted figures showing there was just approx. £3m difference between our turnover and no Euro money and that was while our squad was bigger and costs were higher. There is not a chance in hell we are working to a £14m loss every year we dont get European money, i find that impossible to believe.

Just to expand on that.I think for too long Rangers have limited their income almost to what happens directly on the Park or around Ibrox.I am hoping that Whyte has got the vision to extend our interests in all different directions including non football matters to increase our income. Most of these big global Companies are not restricted to their core products and if you have look at some of them your eyes will pop at some of the money generating interests have. Just as a crude example many years ago if you walked into M&S you would buy clothes or food.Today they have huge interests in the financial world so what is to stop us.It just needs someone with foresight and business accumen and I am hoping that a young guy like Whyte with his London exposure is the man.

[SirWalterSmithLegend 206]

Just to expand on that.I think for too long Rangers have limited their income almost to what happens directly on the Park or around Ibrox.I am hoping that Whyte has got the vision to extend our interests in all different directions including non football matters to increase our income. Most of these big global Companies are not restricted to their core products and if you have look at some of them your eyes will pop at some of the money generating interests have. Just as a crude example many years ago if you walked into M&S you would buy clothes or food.Today they have huge interests in the financial world so what is to stop us.It just needs someone with foresight and business accumen and I am hoping that a young guy like Whyte with his London exposure is the man.

I think Rangers have tried several different ventures but none have really hit off successfully. Merchandise is the one that kills me, the amount of money we must be losing through having a mediocre manufacturer and a restricted sales policy through JJB must be costing us big time. Doesnt hurt to have a good PR machine either, advertising the club through word of mouth at every chance to generate interest. So many aspects of our club have been left to rot, deteriorate and have been neglected, we need a major shake up and hopefully Mr Whyte can do it.

[Jocky Broon 207]

I think Rangers have tried several different ventures but none have really hit off successfully. Merchandise is the one that kills me, the amount of money we must be losing through having a mediocre manufacturer and a restricted sales policy through JJB must be costing us big time. Doesnt hurt to have a good PR machine either, advertising the club through word of mouth at every chance to generate interest. So many aspects of our club have been left to rot, deteriorate and have been neglected, we need a major shake up and hopefully Mr Whyte can do it.

I think we are going down the same road so maybe this time with a proven financial expert and risk taker any new ventures will be successful.As far as our gear goes I lived around the world for many years and I cannot begin to tell you how difficult it was to get Rangers stuff (unless it was fake) but in the same shop there was that boak inducing shite from the bheggars.Made me sick mate but worse it damaged our name.When you spoke to locals about Scottish football they were far more aware of them than us.We need to seriously market ourselves and not just rely on history or signing some dog eating fucking slant eyed cunt.

[SirWalterSmithLegend 206]

I think we are going down the same road so maybe this time with a proven financial expert and risk taker any new ventures will be successful.As far as our gear goes I lived around the world for many years and I cannot begin to tell you how difficult it was to get Rangers stuff (unless it was fake) but in the same shop there was that boak inducing shite from the bheggars.Made me sick mate but worse it damaged our name.When you spoke to locals about Scottish football they were far more aware of them than us.We need to seriously market ourselves and not just rely on history or signing some dog eating fucking slant eyed cunt.

Absolutely spot on. This is a 'must fix' for me.

[simplythebestest 2,145]

Personally I see this being quite simple. Whyte will have said something along the lines of:

You've got your transfer budget so any champions league money goes back into the Rangers purse. If you do well in Europe for a couple of seasons I'll reward you with more investment. After all, if you make the CL this season and not next season, the money we get this season will cover the loss next season.

You can't just go spending extra cash without building up a kitty.

Regarding money from player sales, Whyte seems like the kinda guy to take a very businesslike stance. It will be set at something conservative like 50%, but Whyte might have said he'll up it at his discretion if we need the cash or get a really high fee for a player.

Simple, and sensible.

[Bluedell 14]

Yes but did that not include huge repayments towards our debt though? Someone else posted figures showing there was just approx. £3m difference between our turnover and no Euro money and that was while our squad was bigger and costs were higher. There is not a chance in hell we are working to a £14m loss every year we dont get European money, i find that impossible to believe.

Debt repayments don't affect profit.

Our turnover in 2009 with no Europe was £39m (£12m loss after including £6m profit on player sales), which rose to £56m in 2010 when we did have Europe (£4m profit).

[SirWalterSmithLegend 206]

Debt repayments don't affect profit.

Our turnover in 2009 with no Europe was £39m (£12m loss after including £6m profit on player sales), which rose to £56m in 2010 when we did have Europe (£4m profit).

How can it not affect profit when debt is being paid, huge sums, going out of the club, being taken away from funds which should otherwise be going to the club, i dont see how that doesnt affect profit.

Huge costs have been cut since 2009, have they not? Surely we are not still operating with running costs of £51m per year? That is unsustainable and a very dangerous game to play surely.

[Bluedell 14]

How can it not affect profit when debt is being paid, huge sums, going out of the club, being taken away from funds which should otherwise be going to the club, i dont see how that doesnt affect profit.

Simplistically let's say that we have turnover of £50m and costs of £40m. We make a profit of £10m. That £10m may then go and get used to clear some of the overdraft from the bank and therefore don't still have the £10m but we still made a profit of £10m. Just because oour overdraft is lower by £10m at the end of the year doesn't mean that we wil make £20m profit in the following year.

Huge costs have been cut since 2009, have they not? Surely we are not still operating with running costs of £51m per year? That is unsustainable and a very dangerous game to play surely.

Yes, our costs have fallen but not to the extent that we can break even without Europe.

Whyte has taken on something that could potentially cost a lot of money. It's possible that we don't make the CL in any of the next 5 years, either becuase we get knocked out in the qualiftying rounds or we don't win the league and we could see losses of £5m+ pa. That needs to be funded/supported, in addition to the transfer funds of £5m that we have been promised.

There are a lot of unanswered questions about how this is all going to be financed, particularly if the worst case scenario occurs.

[SirWalterSmithLegend 206]

Simplistically let's say that we have turnover of £50m and costs of £40m. We make a profit of £10m. That £10m may then go and get used to clear some of the overdraft from the bank and therefore don't still have the £10m but we still made a profit of £10m. Just because oour overdraft is lower by £10m at the end of the year doesn't mean that we wil make £20m profit in the following year.

Yes, our costs have fallen but not to the extent that we can break even without Europe.

Whyte has taken on something that could potentially cost a lot of money. It's possible that we don't make the CL in any of the next 5 years, either becuase we get knocked out in the qualiftying rounds or we don't win the league and we could see losses of £5m+ pa. That needs to be funded/supported, in addition to the transfer funds of £5m that we have been promised.

There are a lot of unanswered questions about how this is all going to be financed, particularly if the worst case scenario occurs.

So our debts are not included in our costs? Im sure they were on the annual accounts last year.

Im struggling to believe or understand how our costs are so much, even now.

Cheers anyway Bluedell.