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I'm all for letting everyone in to support us and all that, but why would they want to support this club? Surely everything about this club from the flag flying proudly above Ibrox, to the potrait on

People who base their politics on the football, and vice versa, should probably leave the politics to the adults....

Anyone who is a Scottish "nationalist" is pretty much an embarrassment whether they support Rangers or not. SNP = Anti English, local council morons who have watched too much Braveheart. Alex "the ego

SNP voter. Never voted Tory or Lhabour, doubt I ever will. They CGAF about us. Go and read the McCrone report if you have any doubt about this. As for the Uber fans slating the SNP for their proposed legislation on Sectarianism, it sounds exactly the same as what I was reading on here a few years ago when LabLib were in government, with continual Jibes about "Joke McConnell". Same theme, different regime.

Dont have a problem with the Union Jack, great flag, the mhanks hate it. Have friends from all COUNTRIES in the British Isles, including England and Eire. Anyone who thinks being a Scottish Nationalist makes you by default a hater of the English, is only fooling themselves. The Tartan Army is another matter however, and no matter how many good behaviour awards they have amassed, their anti-Englisness is an embarrassment to us all.

As for the fuckwit who said that Highlanders don't matter, you can GTF. I see someone already showed you the errors of your ways by pointing out that our club was formed by .... yes, Highlanders. Maybe you should visit The Uists or Lochaber to see how much us (and the Mhanks) mean in that part of the world.

It's either that or you beg, borrow or steal a sense of humour. :pipe:

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Do you support the proposed legislation ?

It's not just " uber fans " that are slating it ;)

I havent seen the full proposals yet. I dont think anyone has, as it's still at discussion stage at Holyrood. But based on the change in policing at games so far, it looks flawed, in terms of how one-sided it has been.

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I'm a nationalist Rangers fan. I personally feel football and politics should be kept separate. Now on to the portrait on the wall, i would hope a independent Scotland would adopt the Queen as our monarch, i would be very disappointed if we didn't.

Good point. Salmond has even said on record that independence does not mean by default that we sever Scottish ties to the monarchy. Why should it?

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I am Scottish and would never live in that cesspit of a country .............

What...Youve scouted the land top to bottom and youve found it is not to your liking?

Out of interest...Whereabouts in Glesga are you from? Dont give me Pollok,Cranhill,Ruchazie,Dalmarnock,Rhoyston etc,etc,etc.Now they ARE fucking cesspits.

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Scotland is the poorest nation in western Europe so while I treasure my British identity I also have to accept that we are part of a union that will always and has always benefited England more! I love England my first girlfriend was English a lot of the best friends I have are English my sister in law and niece and nephew are English I'm sure you get the point! But I will always put my family first every single time and sadly I see no future in the UK as its presently operated. Anyway for me Britishness is not political I am as all the fore mentioned people are British we will all always be of this Island but the spirit that existed during and just after WW2 is evaporating at an alarming rate only anation of mugs would be happy to accept the crumbs at their masters table.

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I'm a nationalist Rangers fan. I personally feel football and politics should be kept separate. Now on to the portrait on the wall, i would hope a independent Scotland would adopt the Queen as our monarch, i would be very disappointed if we didn't.

The view you are putting forward here does not represent the vast majority of your fellow Nationalists. Do you or any of them ever sing the National Anthem of Scotland "God Save The Queen". More likely to be torn from limb to limb if among the "Racist Tartan Army".

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What...Youve scouted the land top to bottom and youve found it is not to your liking?

Out of interest...Whereabouts in Glesga are you from? Dont give me Pollok,Cranhill,Ruchazie,Dalmarnock,Rhoyston etc,etc,etc.Now they ARE fucking cesspits.

Right smart wit bit a cranhill is a cesspit? How you can put it beside ruchazie and rhoyston is beyond me, you missed out sighthill, blackhill, and the list goes on ,

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Scotland is the poorest nation in western Europe so while I treasure my British identity I also have to accept that we are part of a union that will always and has always benefited England more! I love England my first girlfriend was English a lot of the best friends I have are English my sister in law and niece and nephew are English I'm sure you get the point! But I will always put my family first every single time and sadly I see no future in the UK as its presently operated. Anyway for me Britishness is not political I am as all the fore mentioned people are British we will all always be of this Island but the spirit that existed during and just after WW2 is evaporating at an alarming rate only anation of mugs would be happy to accept the crumbs at their masters table.

I could not have put it any better myself.

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Right smart wit bit a cranhill is a cesspit? How you can put it beside ruchazie and rhoyston is beyond me, you missed out sighthill, blackhill, and the list goes on ,

Couldnt name them all(the etc's were covering the rest)

Not seen Cranhill for 10 years.Must have changed(a lot!)

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Good point. Salmond has even said on record that independence does not mean by default that we sever Scottish ties to the monarchy. Why should it?

That is probably because he has realised that he does not wish to fund a separate Army, Navy and Air Force which if he had to would be a laughing stock in the rest of the world. A bit like his "Joke Parliament"

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I'm all for letting everyone in to support us and all that, but why would they want to support this club? Surely everything about this club from the flag flying proudly above Ibrox, to the potrait on the wall, screams it's a proud British Institution. Everything these people are against and hate.

I just don't understand how a nationalist Rangers fans mind works.

Agree 100% mate <cr>

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Anyone who spends their day yearning for an independent Scotland clearly doesn't understand how the world works.

I am proud to be Scottish and proud that Scotland is part of the UK. As part of the UK we have far more reach and influence in the world, we have a far greater opportunity to do good in the world.

I am sure others will disagree but imo Scottish independence just seem petty and selfish when put into context alongside all of the major issues that humans face globally.

EDIT : Rant over - not sure where that came from! laugh.gif

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That is probably because he has realised that he does not wish to fund a separate Army, Navy and Air Force which if he had to would be a laughing stock in the rest of the world. A bit like his "Joke Parliament"

Aye, and the UK Armed Forces are doing well with Cameron in charge, eh? Cuts so severe now even the military top-brass are (justifiably) speaking out about it. Constant reports in the press about how under-equipped our soldiers are. Rifles that Jam, 1960's vehicles, while the Yanks are running around in armoured Humvees, lack of Chinooks for transportation meaning more dangerous road-trips.

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Aye, and the UK Armed Forces are doing well with Cameron in charge, eh? Cuts so severe now even the military top-brass are (justifiably) speaking out about it. Constant reports in the press about how under-equipped our soldiers are. Rifles that Jam, 1960's vehicles, while the Yanks are running around in armoured Humvees, lack of Chinooks for transportation meaning more dangerous road-trips.

Probably still knocking seven shades of shit out of the Taliban whenever they stand and fight tho'.

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Aye, and the UK Armed Forces are doing well with Cameron in charge, eh? Cuts so severe now even the military top-brass are (justifiably) speaking out about it. Constant reports in the press about how under-equipped our soldiers are. Rifles that Jam, 1960's vehicles, while the Yanks are running around in armoured Humvees, lack of Chinooks for transportation meaning more dangerous road-trips.

He is doing better than Brown and Blair, and indeed is making deadlines to remove the Troops out of Afghanistan for the reasons you state .Thanks to Labour whom I served under in the Armed Forces, and I left the Army April 2010.

I witnessed the state Labhour left the Armed Forces ,in particularly the RAF in.

Have a look at this I know its a couple of years old but the Idea is still there.

SNP will let English keepmilitary bases

On parade: soldiers from the Argyll and SutherlandHighlanders 5th Battalion Picture: Getty

<br clear="all">

ADVERTISEMENT

Published Date: 11October 2009

By Eddie Barnes Political Editor

AN INDEPENDENT Scotland would allow Englishmilitary forces to be based north of the border after a UK split, says theSNP's defence spokesman.

Angus Robertson MP will tell the party conference in Inverness that the twonewly separated nations would remain "friends and allies", so itwould be "perfectly possible" to "share basing, procurement andtraining facilities with the rest of the present UK", even after Scotlandhad become a sovereign state.

The proposals appear to suggest that RAF bases, such as those at Leuchars andLossiemouth, could be shared between Scottish and English fighter jets. It alsoopens up the idea of Scottish-based garrisons, such as Redford Barracks inEdinburgh and Fort George in Inverness, containing soldiers from both nations'armies. It may also mean that 45 Commando Royal Marines may be retained at itsArbroath base.

However, Robertson also says that an independent Scotland would reserve theright to "stand aside" from wars to which it was opposed. In recentyears, the SNP has refused to support the war in Iraq and the Nato invasion ofKosovo.

He also asserts that an independent Scotland would have the right to removeTrident submarines from Scottish waters.

The plans were described as "complete fantasy" last night by Labour,which said the British government would have little desire to invest in apost-independent Scotland. The Conservatives claimed Robertson's plans hadexposed how an independent Scotland would be entirely dependent on Englishco-operation for survival.

Meanwhile, military experts warned that Scotland would end up having to pay theformer UK government to keep its facilities in Scotland.

But the SNP argues that its sharing plan showed that the "supposeddisbenefits" of independence for the nation's defence was a"chimera".

Writing in today's paper in advance of giving The Scotland on Sunday Lecture atthe SNP conference, Robertson argues: "On the basis of mutual interest, itis perfectly possible to envisage circumstances in which we share basing,procurement and training facilities with the rest of the present UK – ourforemost friend and ally under all constitutional arrangements – in exactly thesame way as defence co-operation exists across the Scandinavian nations."

Robertson is calling for a specific Scottish Defence Review, to go alongsidethe British Defence Review, to ensure that the country's defence policy"reflects Scotland's priorities and preferences". The SNP argues thata review would probably conclude that most Scots were opposed to the UK defencepolicy, including its policy of keeping Trident on the Clyde.

Robertson says that independence would ensure that Scotland would be able"to choose which theatres to be involved in".

Independence would also allow an SNP-led government to remove Trident fromScotland, he continues. "No independent nation of five million has nuclearweapons, and nor should we," he declares.

The SNP's plans for defence come as the party prepares to head to Inverness onThursday for its annual conference, where it will increase calls for anindependence referendum.

In an interview yesterday, First Minister Alex Salmond said his aim for nextyear's general election was to gain enough MPs to hold the balance of power inwhat many expect to be a hung parliament.

"There's a vast overwhelming majority of people in Scotland, regardless ofpolitical preference, who rather like the idea of the Westminster parliamentbeing hung by a Scottish rope," he said.

Scottish Secretary Jim Murphy last night unveiled Labour's election campaigntheme, which will claim that a vote for the SNP helps to install theConservatives at Westminster. He said: "Labour's campaign – Vote SNP, GetTory – will put this issue centre stage between now and the generalelection."

As for Robertson's proposals, military experts said last night that, while itwould be feasible to imagine a sharing arrangement post-independence, therewould be complications as well.

Colonel Bob Stewart, the former United Nations commander in Bosnia, said:"There would have to be a State of Forces Agreement such as there isbetween the UK and Germany (where British troops are currently garrisoned). Intheory, it is possible for this to happen, but there are complications. WouldScotland be part of Nato, for example?"

He added: "It would all come down to money. If you wanted to keep Englishtroops and bases here, how much would you be prepared to pay? The Germans don'twant us to withdraw because British troops there substantially subsidise thelocal economy."

However, shadow Secretary of State for Scotland David Mundell said: "Anindependent Scotland would have to rely on England's goodwill on defence andsecurity."

He added: "Alex Salmond can't expect to break up Britain and have the restof the United Kingdom dance to his tune. His defence policy doesn't stack up.It is fooling nobody and would threaten tens of thousands of jobs in Scotland.Alex Salmond needs to get on with his job in the Scottish Parliament, becausehe just can't cut it on the wider stage."

Meanwhile, a senior Scotland Office official described the proposals as"complete fantasy", claiming that after independence the governmentsouth of the border would have no incentive to invest or be sited in a foreigncountry such as Scotland.

The source said: "Shipbuilding on the Clyde would go – the Royal Navywould not give contracts to a foreign country. This would be another hammerblow to Glasgow from the nationalists. In all, 20,000 defence-related jobswould be at risk. In Morayshire, 2,000 jobs would go – no Trident, no Nimrod,no Kinloss."

As for the plans to scrap Trident, the source added: "In a world in whichrogue nations are seeking nuclear weapons, it is madness for the SNP to suggestthat Scotland should be defenceless. The majority of Scots have consistentlyrejected the policies of pacifism and one-sided disarmament set out by AngusRobertson."

· Last Updated: 11October 2009 12:40 PM

· Source: ScotlandOn Sunday

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Scotland is the poorest nation in western Europe so while I treasure my British identity I also have to accept that we are part of a union that will always and has always benefited England more! I love England my first girlfriend was English a lot of the best friends I have are English my sister in law and niece and nephew are English I'm sure you get the point! But I will always put my family first every single time and sadly I see no future in the UK as its presently operated. Anyway for me Britishness is not political I am as all the fore mentioned people are British we will all always be of this Island but the spirit that existed during and just after WW2 is evaporating at an alarming rate only anation of mugs would be happy to accept the crumbs at their masters table.

Not according to this article it isn't

.

ANation of Dropouts Shakes Europe

· Article

By CHARLES FORELLE

LISBON—Isabel Fernandes, a cheery22-year-old with a constellation of stars tattooed around her right eye, isn'tsure how many times she repeated fifth grade. Two, she says with a laugh. Ormaybe three. She redid seventh grade as well. She quit school with aneighth-grade education at age 20.

Ms. Fernandes lives in a poorsuburb near the airport. She doesn't work. Employers, she says, "areasking for higher education." Even cleaning jobs are hard to find.

.

Portugal is the poorest country inWestern Europe. It is also the least educated, and that has emerged as apainful liability in its gathering economic crisis.

Wednesday night, the economiccrisis became a political crisis. Portugal's parliament rejected Prime MinisterJosé Sócrates's plan for spending cuts and tax increases. Mr. Sócrates handedin his resignation. He will hang on as a caretaker until a new government isformed.

Withoutthe budget cuts, Portugal is almost certain to need an international bailout.It will run out of money this year without fresh cash, and markets are chargingpunitive rates for borrowing. Two firms downgraded Portugal's credit ratingThursday.

Its dire situation thrust apossible Portuguese rescue onto the agenda of European Union leaders whogathered in Brussels Thursday for a previously scheduled meeting, where theywere agreeing on a new bailout fund. Portugal would be the third country in theeuro zone to require a bailout, after Greece and Ireland.

Portugal is the poorest and leasteducated country in Western Europe. With a debt crisis bearing down, it mustmake massive reforms to fix its economy, and education is at the top of thelist. WSJ's Charles Forelle reports from Lisbon.

The state of Portuguese educationsays a lot about why a rescue is likely to be needed, and why one would becostly and difficult. Put simply, Portugal must generate enough long-termeconomic growth to pay off its large debts. An unskilled work force makes thathard.

Cheaprote labor that once sustained Portugal's textile industry has vanished toAsia. The former Eastern Bloc countries that joined the European Union en massein 2004 offer lower wages and workers with more schooling. They have suckedskilled jobs away.

Just28% of the Portuguese population between 25 and 64 has completed high school.The figure is 85% in Germany, 91% in the Czech Republic and 89% in the U.S.

<a name="U401979635746KFD">"Idon't see how it is going to grow without educating its work force," saysPedro Carneiro, an economist at University College London who left Portugal todo his postgraduate studies in the U.S.

Theeducation woes in Portugal show the extent of Europe's challenge as it tries toright itself amid the sovereign-debt crisis.

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