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If as is suggested and the club is liquidated because the HMRC won't agree to payments on Whyte's terms I think he will have no choice but to sell to whoever he has lined up at this time.

He is already under investigation by the SFA ( or is it SFL I'm not sure) into if he is a fit and proper person to own a club. Whilst this is on going HMRC forces us into administration for non payment of taxes under his stewardship for the last 9 months.

Rangers 2012 will have to reapply to both SFA/SFL and the SPL at that time in order to rejoin scottish football.

With his track record over the first 9 months of his tenure, a 7 year ban Directors and Judges from legal cases expressing concern do you honestly think they will automatically accept him (or the fans accept him that matter)?

Risky strategy indeed and risks us returning outwith the SPL if votes go against us by the other SPL club chairmen.

Another thing that worried me with this account, HMRC says it is 9 mill, Whyte say it is only 4.3 mill which is fair enough I suppose, and offers to pay "most of that". If you are looking to inspire confidence with the tax man he could have least covered it in full during these negotiations.

Edit for clarity of fans not accepting him back

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Quite amazing how a 100 at most of our fans at the door can lead to this story that its over for him.

Hmmmm

You might be onto something there. Imagine 150,000 of us marching on Holyrood or Westminster. Every week. Powers that be might tell HRMC to write of the debt as the cost of Policing such demos might be the same. :happy:

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There has to be an inquiry into this,with criminal proceedings at the end of it,Whyte,Murray,Lloyds TSB and every single person involved in this shambles has to be investigated.

Whyte since day one has been planning to liquidate our club and that is exactly what he's going to do,there is so many questions that have to be answered and I wouldn't trust a single one of them to tell the truth,let them tell their lies once more,this time under oath.

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CVA makes the most sense for all parties.

The way Whyte has set it up, we go under he takes all the money and would then put that into a new company and they get fuck all.

If a CVA fails to work then we would go down the Pheonix route.

I expect us to leave Administration withing the month tho.

I see. So, the seperate company thing if we go down the Cva route, is that the "pre-pack" admin I was reading about recently? The route Leeds United, Cobra Beer and numerous other companies have taken?

What is the exact difference between this and a Phoenix club? (as far as I can tell both are new companies and both would be unable to compete in Europe for three years due to the sanctions from UEFA?

Apologies if this is actually all straight forward, my nut is fried trying to field so many questions and arguments myself!

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I see. So, the seperate company thing if we go down the Cva route, is that the "pre-pack" admin I was reading about recently? The route Leeds United, Cobra Beer and numerous other companies have taken?

What is the exact difference between this and a Phoenix club? (as far as I can tell both are new companies and both would be unable to compete in Europe for three years due to the sanctions from UEFA?

Apologies if this is actually all straight forward, my nut is fried trying to field so many questions and arguments myself!

For me its either going to be a CVA and if we dont agree a CVA with our creditors then we will go down the Pheonix club route.

I dont know what this "pre-pack" admin thing is but Leeds went down the Pheonix Club route, A CVA is used to pay back the creditors(HMRC etc). If they all agreed on a CVA we would pay back something like 10p to the pound on all the debts we owe. That is the best route because we would come out of Administration.

Here is a good posting summing up the Pheonix club route.

"As phoenix club we wouldn't lose any history. The club, stadium, training ground, etc would be transferred from one company; currently 'The Rangers FC Group Ltd.' to a new company. Examples of where this have happened are Leeds United and Celtic. We would be the same club.

What the OP is referring to is Rangers FC being liquidated and a group of fans (for example) starting a new club, calling it Glasgow Rangers (for example). This new club would not be The Rangers FC. But a phoenix club would still be The Rangers FC.

Complications of creating a phoenix club are listed here: http://sport.stv.tv/...hoenix-company/

Obviously every current fan of Rangers FC would support a phoenix club (As it would be the same club, same history, same tradition), unless they are glory hunters (as the next few years may not be as successful as we are used to).

I guess a number of fans would not support a newly formed club, as actively as they do now. As we would lose our history, traditions etc (As happened with Airdrie - Airdrieonians. And Wimbledon FC - AFC Wimbeldon)"

Im not very good at this stuff either but this is what I have gathered from reading on here.

It seems Whyte has put pressure on the creditors to accept a CVA because with him putting us into Administration he is the secured creditor. So because he waived that cash over we owe him in the region of 20-30 million if liquidated and because he is a secured creditor and HMRC are an unsecured creditor he is guaranteed his money and would be paid first whereas the other creditors are next in line after him. So if you are being realistic the other creditors are not going to get a penny that they are owed if they go down that route. Thats why HMRC tried to put us into Administration at the last minute so they would be the preferred creditor. Thankfully that never happened.

My only concern is that with him basically shafting HMRC they may just be ruthless about it.

I may be wrong but thats what I have gathered from the situation.

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For me its either going to be a CVA and if we dont agree a CVA with our creditors then we will go down the Pheonix club route.

I dont know what this "pre-pack" admin thing is but Leeds went down the Pheonix Club route, A CVA is used to pay back the creditors(HMRC etc). If they all agreed on a CVA we would pay back something like 10p to the pound on all the debts we owe. That is the best route because we would come out of Administration.

Here is a good posting summing up the Pheonix club route.

"As phoenix club we wouldn't lose any history. The club, stadium, training ground, etc would be transferred from one company; currently 'The Rangers FC Group Ltd.' to a new company. Examples of where this have happened are Leeds United and Celtic. We would be the same club.

What the OP is referring to is Rangers FC being liquidated and a group of fans (for example) starting a new club, calling it Glasgow Rangers (for example). This new club would not be The Rangers FC. But a phoenix club would still be The Rangers FC.

Complications of creating a phoenix club are listed here: http://sport.stv.tv/...hoenix-company/

Obviously every current fan of Rangers FC would support a phoenix club (As it would be the same club, same history, same tradition), unless they are glory hunters (as the next few years may not be as successful as we are used to).

I guess a number of fans would not support a newly formed club, as actively as they do now. As we would lose our history, traditions etc (As happened with Airdrie - Airdrieonians. And Wimbledon FC - AFC Wimbeldon)"

Im not very good at this stuff either but this is what I have gathered from reading on here.

It seems Whyte has put pressure on the creditors to accept a CVA because with him putting us into Administration he is the secured creditor. So because he waived that cash over we owe him in the region of 20-30 million if liquidated and because he is a secured creditor and HMRC are an unsecured creditor he is guaranteed his money and would be paid first whereas the other creditors are next in line after him. So if you are being realistic the other creditors are not going to get a penny that they are owed if they go down that route. Thats why HMRC tried to put us into Administration at the last minute so they would be the preferred creditor. Thankfully that never happened.

My only concern is that with him basically shafting HMRC they may just be ruthless about it.

I may be wrong but thats what I have gathered from the situation.

Good detailed post mate. (tu)

Tried to give you a rep twice, but don't know if they went through. <cr>

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For me its either going to be a CVA and if we dont agree a CVA with our creditors then we will go down the Pheonix club route.

I dont know what this "pre-pack" admin thing is but Leeds went down the Pheonix Club route, A CVA is used to pay back the creditors(HMRC etc). If they all agreed on a CVA we would pay back something like 10p to the pound on all the debts we owe. That is the best route because we would come out of Administration.

Here is a good posting summing up the Pheonix club route.

"As phoenix club we wouldn't lose any history. The club, stadium, training ground, etc would be transferred from one company; currently 'The Rangers FC Group Ltd.' to a new company. Examples of where this have happened are Leeds United and Celtic. We would be the same club.

What the OP is referring to is Rangers FC being liquidated and a group of fans (for example) starting a new club, calling it Glasgow Rangers (for example). This new club would not be The Rangers FC. But a phoenix club would still be The Rangers FC.

Complications of creating a phoenix club are listed here: http://sport.stv.tv/...hoenix-company/

Obviously every current fan of Rangers FC would support a phoenix club (As it would be the same club, same history, same tradition), unless they are glory hunters (as the next few years may not be as successful as we are used to).

I guess a number of fans would not support a newly formed club, as actively as they do now. As we would lose our history, traditions etc (As happened with Airdrie - Airdrieonians. And Wimbledon FC - AFC Wimbeldon)"

Im not very good at this stuff either but this is what I have gathered from reading on here.

It seems Whyte has put pressure on the creditors to accept a CVA because with him putting us into Administration he is the secured creditor. So because he waived that cash over we owe him in the region of 20-30 million if liquidated and because he is a secured creditor and HMRC are an unsecured creditor he is guaranteed his money and would be paid first whereas the other creditors are next in line after him. So if you are being realistic the other creditors are not going to get a penny that they are owed if they go down that route. Thats why HMRC tried to put us into Administration at the last minute so they would be the preferred creditor. Thankfully that never happened.

My only concern is that with him basically shafting HMRC they may just be ruthless about it.

I may be wrong but thats what I have gathered from the situation.

They've already been ruthless, heartless bastards, so I think we can all accept that part as a given. More's the pity.

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The Whyte regime are disputing £4.7million of the £9m tax bill HMRC revealed as unpaid on Monday. That remaining £4.3m consists of £1m VAT on the sale of Croat striker Nikica Jelavic to Everton and £3.3m of PAYE due to the taxman.

Our source stressed: "Of that £9m, £4.7m is in dispute.

"Of the balance HMRC were offered most of that paid in full on Friday and they REFUSED to take it.

"Rangers is running at a loss and they WERE late with the rest of the tax money.

"HMRC, though, said they wanted the full £9m paid and refused the option of taking the £4.3m while both parties sort out the 'small tax case'.

if this part is true, fuck knows, but if it is then it just shows how powerful the media really are in painting a characters image to the public

we've had papers and tv telling us 9million in collected PAYE since last may was unpaid, when in reality it is only 4.3mill and we offered to pay it

fuck even the rebel yesterday ran with the story that whyte effectively stole the tax money that his employees paid

this should widen the gap between pro-whyte and anti-whyte by a fucking big margin now :(

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Does anyone know the name of the scumbag heading up the HMrc case,maybe more to this than meets the eye,they seem to be relentless in their pursuit of us,i just find it hard to believe that they would push any other instution the way they are persuing us......WATP

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Smell a rat in the Sun report. Whatever VAT arrangement Gers are on (monthly/quarterly), the return for the end of Jan which would include Jela's sale is not due until end of this month, with payment by 11th/12th March.

How could HMRC be chasing us for dosh which isn't even due did up to 3 weeks?

Are there different rules for football?

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Does anyone know the name of the scumbag heading up the HMrc case,maybe more to this than meets the eye,they seem to be relentless in their pursuit of us,i just find it hard to believe that they would push any other instution the way they are persuing us......WATP

Reason I have heard we are being pushed so hard is because they have eight other investigations going with past and present EPL teams for bigger amounts. They want to hammer us so that these cases (beleived for some much larger amounts) are then stonewalled and gimmie's.

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Reason I have heard we are being pushed so hard is because they have eight other investigations going with past and present EPL teams for bigger amounts. They want to hammer us so that these cases (beleived for some much larger amounts) are then stonewalled and gimmie's.

Surely the result is all that matters - bit of a pyrrhic victory if they win & get absolutely f**k all when they could have won & got a steady stream of dosh from us - smacks of vindictiveness somewhere along the line!

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There has to be an inquiry into this,with criminal proceedings at the end of it,Whyte,Murray,Lloyds TSB and every single person involved in this shambles has to be investigated.

Whyte since day one has been planning to liquidate our club and that is exactly what he's going to do,there is so many questions that have to be answered and I wouldn't trust a single one of them to tell the truth,let them tell their lies once more,this time under oath.

Sombody called McFall is pushing for an FSA investigation into whyte takeover. Agree with you should be investigating the whole lot including HMRC as it appears they have made atotal arse of things, wouldn't be the first time.

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I have a feeling a 3rd party interested in the club may come forward soon :sherlock:

Hmrc will be easier to deal with if whyte is out the picture.

Surely people now accept he aint doing this for the greater good or taking one for th team as his cheerleaders would have you believe. I just worry what it is he is getting out of this.

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Does anyone know the name of the scumbag heading up the HMrc case,maybe more to this than meets the eye,they seem to be relentless in their pursuit of us,i just find it hard to believe that they would push any other instution the way they are persuing us......WATP

Theyre hitting us hard as a tester to see how successful they are. Believe me, theres other clubs and companies in the UK with a keen eye on what happens with HMRC. What we potentially owe is small change to some other cases.

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I have a feeling a 3rd party interested in the club may come forward soon :sherlock:

Hmrc will be easier to deal with if whyte is out the picture.

Surely people now accept he aint doing this for the greater good or taking one for th team as his cheerleaders would have you believe. I just worry what it is he is getting out of this.

Whites playing the game. Hes fly. Now wether hes playing it to rangers advantage or for his own benefits is another question. Now why would someone buy a club knowing all this stress that was inevitable?

Hes either going to make money personally, or hes shafting everybody to clear rangers finances.

Weve got to remember hes a venture capitalist. Hes a professional at this kind of thing. Fingers crossed hes a bluenose deep down and we come out of the other end with 2 fingers up to the rest of them.

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