VB statement re Whyte

[WVB 2,560]

Its an internet forum, lots of shite gets spouted.

[TheLawMan 6,240]

Really? Have you seen the LBG credit agreement? Do you know the finer details of it?

Walter Smith was unequivocal - "LBG are running the club".

An overdraft doesn't give the bank the right to run a business.

You're quite clearly the one spouting shite.

What part of "operating in our own cash" do you not get ?

When we had a huge overdraft and were constantly breaching it, then Lloyds had a say in what we could spend on purely from the point that they had to authorise it at the time. We were runnig our business with their money.

A Long Term loan is subject to regulations and like mortgages, cannot be recalled on a whim, unless you break the agreed covenant set out at the beginning of the loan.

[MrSifter 181]

What part of "operating in our own cash" do you not get ?

When we had a huge overdraft and were constantly breaching it, then Lloyds had a say in what we could spend on purely from the point that they had to authorise it at the time. We were runnig our business with their money.

A Long Term loan is subject to regulations and like mortgages, cannot be recalled on a whim, unless you break the agreed covenant set out at the beginning of the loan.

"What part of "operating in our own cash" do you not get ?"

The irony.

McCoist's failure in Europe meant we'd have circa a £10m loss, therefore meaning?

RFC were in dire financial straits prior to this. Everyone (other than you) was acknowledging this.

You have absolutely no idea what the credit agreement was, none whatsoever, so stop pretending you do.

Walter Smith was unequivocal - "LBG are running the club".

If LBG were running the club when we had European football, were winning the SPL and operating with our own cash, what would've been the squeeze like with no European football?

Add into the mix the big tax case result pending and don't kid yourself that LBG wouldn't have been extracting every penny out they could.

[thebooler 4,509]

I'm with the VB's on this one. I still think Craig Whyte (and a few others) know what they're doing here.

[Gash07 26]

David Murrays mistakes were exactly that, mistakes.

Craig Whyte made no mistake, everything inflicted upon us in the last nine months was by design.

Big difference imho.

[TheLawMan 6,240]

"What part of "operating in our own cash" do you not get ?"

The irony.

McCoist's failure in Europe meant we'd have circa a £10m loss, therefore meaning?

RFC were in dire financial straits prior to this. Everyone (other than you) was acknowledging this.

You have absolutely no idea what the credit agreement was, none whatsoever, so stop pretending you do.

Walter Smith was unequivocal - "LBG are running the club".

If LBG were running the club when we had European football, were winning the SPL and operating with our own cash, what would've been the squeeze like with no European football?

Add into the mix the big tax case result pending and don't kid yourself that LBG wouldn't have been extracting every penny out they could.

Lets talk facts.

We have been in "dire financial straits" for years and years. FACT

2009/2010 was a breakthrough year in that Lloyds refused to allow us to go over our agreed £15m overdraft, something they had been used to doing for years when it was Murrays pals at Bank of Scotland. FACT

In that year alone, not only did we reduce our debt to Lloyds by £4m, but we also paid off around £9m of trade creditors, reducing our trade debt to around £2m. FACT

Due to the saving made and the progress, this allowed the club to spend £5m last summer(2010) on new acquisitions. FACT

In 2010/2011 we continued with the previously mentioned savings and got to a position where we were cash positive. As in, we actually had cash in the bank PLUS a £15m overdraft facility to draw on, instead of owing Lloyds an overdraft and having a smaller amount available. FACT

At no time since 1st July 2009 have we breached our £15m overdraft limit with Lloyds. FACT

The Big Tax case apart, Rangers Football Club were sitting as healthy as we have been in a long amount of years back in May 2011. FACT

The elephant in the room was always the tax case. Lloyds knew if that ended up £50m, they could kiss goodbye to the £18m. That is why they forced Murrays arm. FACT

If it wasnt for the Big Tax Case, Lloyds would have carried on as long as we continued with the prudent approach of recent years. FACT

The £18m was a 22 year Term Loan. FACT

Lloyds could not make a demand for instant repayment on an agreed 22 year loan, unless there was a default. FACT

[StudsLonniegan 9]

Lets talk facts.

We have been in "dire financial straits" for years and years. FACT

2009/2010 was a breakthrough year in that Lloyds refused to allow us to go over our agreed £15m overdraft, something they had been used to doing for years when it was Murrays pals at Bank of Scotland. FACT

In that year alone, not only did we reduce our debt to Lloyds by £4m, but we also paid off around £9m of trade creditors, reducing our trade debt to around £2m. FACT

Due to the saving made and the progress, this allowed the club to spend £5m last summer(2010) on new acquisitions. FACT

In 2010/2011 we continued with the previously mentioned savings and got to a position where we were cash positive. As in, we actually had cash in the bank PLUS a £15m overdraft facility to draw on, instead of owing Lloyds an overdraft and having a smaller amount available. FACT

At no time since 1st July 2009 have we breached our £15m overdraft limit with Lloyds. FACT

The Big Tax case apart, Rangers Football Club were sitting as healthy as we have been in a long amount of years back in May 2011. FACT

The elephant in the room was always the tax case. Lloyds knew if that ended up £50m, they could kiss goodbye to the £18m. That is why they forced Murrays arm. FACT

If it wasnt for the Big Tax Case, Lloyds would have carried on as long as we continued with the prudent approach of recent years. FACT

The £18m was a 22 year Term Loan. FACT

Lloyds could not make a demand for instant repayment on an agreed 22 year loan, unless there was a default. FACT

LBG told aj or he alleges he was told get in the way of the deal and we will cut the legs from under you, that may or not be a fact, but aj claims it is, in effect LBG made the decision unilaterally.

So the only reason that mattered in the end was the decision of LBG and it would appear they made it.

[MosesMcNeil 1,664]

The Big Tax case apart, The elephant in the room was always the tax case. If it wasnt for the Big Tax Case,

What a pity for your arguments that tax case existed at all.

PS: your opinions are not necessarily facts.

[MrSifter 181]

Lets talk facts.

We have been in "dire financial straits" for years and years. FACT

2009/2010 was a breakthrough year in that Lloyds refused to allow us to go over our agreed £15m overdraft, something they had been used to doing for years when it was Murrays pals at Bank of Scotland. FACT

In that year alone, not only did we reduce our debt to Lloyds by £4m, but we also paid off around £9m of trade creditors, reducing our trade debt to around £2m. FACT

Due to the saving made and the progress, this allowed the club to spend £5m last summer(2010) on new acquisitions. FACT

In 2010/2011 we continued with the previously mentioned savings and got to a position where we were cash positive. As in, we actually had cash in the bank PLUS a £15m overdraft facility to draw on, instead of owing Lloyds an overdraft and having a smaller amount available. FACT

At no time since 1st July 2009 have we breached our £15m overdraft limit with Lloyds. FACT

The Big Tax case apart, Rangers Football Club were sitting as healthy as we have been in a long amount of years back in May 2011. FACT

The elephant in the room was always the tax case. Lloyds knew if that ended up £50m, they could kiss goodbye to the £18m. That is why they forced Murrays arm. FACT

If it wasnt for the Big Tax Case, Lloyds would have carried on as long as we continued with the prudent approach of recent years. FACT

The £18m was a 22 year Term Loan. FACT

Lloyds could not make a demand for instant repayment on an agreed 22 year loan, unless there was a default. FACT

Screaming "FACT" after every opinion doesn't make it a fact.

You objected to my point that LBG were suffocating the life out of the club. By their actions this was apparent but you won't accept it and are becoming more and more incoherent with each passing post.

LBG were running the club and LBG wanted their money out ASAP, probably due to the big tax case and the uncertainty it gave them as RFC's major creditor.

[rossco3343 0]

Lets talk facts.

We have been in "dire financial straits" for years and years. FACT

2009/2010 was a breakthrough year in that Lloyds refused to allow us to go over our agreed £15m overdraft, something they had been used to doing for years when it was Murrays pals at Bank of Scotland. FACT

In that year alone, not only did we reduce our debt to Lloyds by £4m, but we also paid off around £9m of trade creditors, reducing our trade debt to around £2m. FACT

Due to the saving made and the progress, this allowed the club to spend £5m last summer(2010) on new acquisitions. FACT

In 2010/2011 we continued with the previously mentioned savings and got to a position where we were cash positive. As in, we actually had cash in the bank PLUS a £15m overdraft facility to draw on, instead of owing Lloyds an overdraft and having a smaller amount available. FACT

At no time since 1st July 2009 have we breached our £15m overdraft limit with Lloyds. FACT

The Big Tax case apart, Rangers Football Club were sitting as healthy as we have been in a long amount of years back in May 2011. FACT

The elephant in the room was always the tax case. Lloyds knew if that ended up £50m, they could kiss goodbye to the £18m. That is why they forced Murrays arm. FACT

If it wasnt for the Big Tax Case, Lloyds would have carried on as long as we continued with the prudent approach of recent years. FACT

The £18m was a 22 year Term Loan. FACT

Lloyds could not make a demand for instant repayment on an agreed 22 year loan, unless there was a default. FACT

I have no proof to back it up, but Rangers would have defaulted on the term loan the second they dropped of out of Champions League, If the club have operating losses of £10m without European money I have no doubt that they would have been in breach of the Covenants of the loan agreement and thus defaulting on the terms of the loan, and LBG would have forced administration upon Rangers.

[TheLawMan 6,240]

What a pity for your arguments that tax case existed at all.

PS: your opinions are not necessarily facts.

It's a pity u didn't read my original argument.

[MosesMcNeil 1,664]

It's a pity u didn't read my original argument.

I did. It's more of a pity you don't realise why it wasn't worth acknowledging.

[TheLawMan 6,240]

Screaming "FACT" after every opinion doesn't make it a fact.

You objected to my point that LBG were suffocating the life out of the club. By their actions this was apparent but you won't accept it and are becoming more and more incoherent with each passing post.

LBG were running the club and LBG wanted their money out ASAP, probably due to the big tax case and the uncertainty it gave them as RFC's major creditor.

I objected to your point on the grounds that lloyds were only doing what every other bank in the uk does day in day out from wee Joe bloggs upwards. And that was they told us we needed to live within our means and not breach covenants.

[TheLawMan 6,240]

I have no proof to back it up, but Rangers would have defaulted on the term loan the second they dropped of out of Champions League, If the club have operating losses of £10m without European money I have no doubt that they would have been in breach of the Covenants of the loan agreement and thus defaulting on the terms of the loan, and LBG would have forced administration upon Rangers.

No we wouldn't have. We would have paid the million plus the interest come hail, rain or shine.

[gunslinger 270]

Just to nail this LBG suffocating the life out of nonsense, I wish people would understand that Lloyds actions were purely down to us not being able to operate in an agreed overdraft. If any fan out there has a £1000 overdraft with any bank and every month before getting paid they're up to £800 or £900, do the bank turn around and say "aw fukk it, go and buy that telly for £900 and dont worry your ass about your overdraft"

Lloyds told the club in no uncertain terms that we would not be allowed to breach the £15m. We had to cut our expenses. We did cut our expenses. We paid off all our trade debt with CL money. We paid off our overdraft with CL money. And we got ourselves in a position where Lloyds overdraft was suddenly manageable.

Of course they wouldnt have sanctioned a £5m purchase, but under the old Board/Lloyds partnership, we would not be in administration today. We would not have sold 4 years of season tickets. We would not owe HMRC £15m. We would not have been dragged through the courts for the past 9 months by all and sundry. We would not have sold a piece of history for £200k. We would not be 20 fukkin points behind Sellic. We would not be a fukkin laughing stock.

No. All of that is down to Craig Whyte. Youre another one that needs a boot up the arse to wake you up

well said.

despite what some very good accountants will tell you we were doing well under aj and co and debts were plumeting.

[gunslinger 270]

whytes 10 million quid lie getting used against the old board now. holy fuck.

[StudsLonniegan 9]

No we wouldn't have. We would have paid the million plus the interest come hail, rain or shine.

You constantly fail to acknowledge amongst all your "facts" the one fact that matters, LBG decided our liabilities in various places were toxic as they call it, they dumped us get over it.

[A.T.G 10,773]

whytes 10 million quid lie getting used against the old board now. holy fuck.

where?

[gunslinger 270]

where?

a few posts back.

[A.T.G 10,773]

a few posts back.

Thank Fuck, thought it was another lie CW was coming out with

[gunslinger 270]

Thank Fuck, thought it was another lie CW was coming out with

whyte said we had a 10th million black hole in the finances.

firstly its probably not true.

but certainly it was nothing like the case when whyte took over.

[A.T.G 10,773]

whyte said we had a 10th million black hole in the finances.

firstly its probably not true.

but certainly it was nothing like the case when whyte took over.

I think he was probably right about the £10m black hole or there or there abouts

But this 'black hole' should not have included £9m back pay in taxes

So really we should have been covered with the extra £6m he got from ticketus, Jela sale, and his working capital

In my eyes Rangers should be £7m in the black

But at the moment they cant pay anything yet still people are backing him not even realising the fucking mess he has made of us

[rossco3343 0]

whytes 10 million quid lie getting used against the old board now. holy fuck.

It wasn't be used against the old board.

Rangers less Champions League Revenue are a loss making company, £10m was just a ball park figure I used.

[MrSifter 181]

I objected to your point on the grounds that lloyds were only doing what every other bank in the uk does day in day out from wee Joe bloggs upwards. And that was they told us we needed to live within our means and not breach covenants.

In that case you were arguing against yourself. Nowhere did I say LBG were acting in a way no other bank would.

What was said:

I don't suppose much would've changed had Whyte not come in. Bain would be earning £500k and LBG would've been suffocating the life out of us after McCoist's failure in Europe.

At least the PAYE and VAT would've been paid I suppose whilst we waited for the tax case result.

Just to nail this LBG suffocating the life out of nonsense, I wish people would understand that Lloyds actions were purely down to us not being able to operate in an agreed overdraft. If any fan out there has a £1000 overdraft with any bank and every month before getting paid they're up to £800 or £900, do the bank turn around and say "aw fukk it, go and buy that telly for £900 and dont worry your ass about your overdraft"

Lloyds told the club in no uncertain terms that we would not be allowed to breach the £15m. We had to cut our expenses. We did cut our expenses. We paid off all our trade debt with CL money. We paid off our overdraft with CL money. And we got ourselves in a position where Lloyds overdraft was suddenly manageable.

Of course they wouldnt have sanctioned a £5m purchase, but under the old Board/Lloyds partnership, we would not be in administration today. We would not have sold 4 years of season tickets. We would not owe HMRC £15m. We would not have been dragged through the courts for the past 9 months by all and sundry. We would not have sold a piece of history for £200k. We would not be 20 fukkin points behind Sellic. We would not be a fukkin laughing stock.

No. All of that is down to Craig Whyte. Youre another one that needs a boot up the arse to wake you up

LBG were running the club when we had circa £10M additional income from European football. Quite clearly, had LBG still been in charge, cuts would've been made after McCoist bombed out of Europe to the giants of Malmo and Maribor and our earnings would've been down circa £10M.

LBG cannot be blamed for wanting their money back ASAP. With the big tax case hanging over the club, potentially they could've struggled to get a fraction back if that case went against us. Banks, like most other businesses, do not like uncertainty. You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think they were happy just to have the overdraft/long term loan paid back on a slowly slowly basis.

Hence, as Walter Smith said "LBG are running the club", the tight squeeze applied by them beyond a slowly, slowly payment plan.

[StudsLonniegan 9]

Despite all the "facts" LBG thought we were such a money making customer and safe bet that they wanted their exposure ended, that is the bottom line.