The media report £134m debt, but approximately £100m is conditional

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

The total potential debt could reach £135m.

However, £27m approx, is from Ticketus, who may do a deal with TBK, who are still in the running. Furthermore, they've stated that they may make the same deal available to other bidders.

£72+m is the maximum liability to HMRC in relation to the Big Tax Case, if we are found to have mis-administered EBTs and if we are held for the full amount, full interest and full penalties. Many experts have said that this is not likely, and any liability, if there even is one, is likely to be of a much lower figure.

So, potentially, the figure could be roughly £100m less, which makes a CVA much more possible.

That said, financial experts such as David Bick and David Hillier have stated that as things stand, a CVA exit from administration is much more likely than liquidation, even with full liabilities.

Nonetheless, that's simply too rational, factual and positive for certain outlets.

Further to these points, sergio highlights:

How dare you tell the truth

One thing you forgot fella, 9 Million Compensation claim against CB. This will be lodged on the 16th of April, that plus the 2.7 Million that HMRC have relating to the WTC. (this has not been released to anyone and its will be used to pay part of the wee bill once the final figure is known)

So that's almost another £12m that can be deducted, taking the total down to a potential minimum of something almost as low as £20m. Thanks for this sergio.

That could even be cleared at a rate of 100p in the pound without much difficulty. Some CVAs have seen creditors returned single figures in terms of pence in the pound on their money. So even if we went for a low double figures rate of 10p, which is not totally unrealistic from my understanding, we could end up paying as little as £2.5m to creditors. Whilst this is far more optimistic outlook than the have suggested, it's not any more unrealistic than their claims.

However, even a half-way house between both extremes could see the debt being less than half the headline figure of £134m and paid at a rate between 25p to 50p in the pound. Those figures are likely to be far more realistic and easily achievable.

It's also worth considering the Rangers fans who are Ibrox debenture holders whose figure is £7.7m. They are unlikely to be wanting paid, but will get their share, unless there is a deal done with the Administrators to remove, or delay their return. The latter may not be legally within the remit of an Administrator who is charged with reducing debt, not adding to it.

Interestingly, most of the media have failed to report that we have over £126m in assets with a turnover that varies between approximately £35m and £55m. Hardly all doom and gloom at all.

[damien1 29]

Not all that money is due or even overdue.

[gunslinger 270]

good post as usual Oleg.

[Ace 3,556]

But why let facts get in the way of a good story !!

[A.T.G 10,773]

It shouldn't come as a surprise to folk that £134m grabs the headlines

I am looking forward to August, debt free new season and new owners

[damien1 29]

Scotland Today were quick to report on the monies we owed other football clubs, didn't mention we were 'owed' more money by football clubs than what we owe.

[sergio 1,199]

The total potential debt could reach £135m.

However, £27m approx, is from Ticketus, who may do a deal with TBK, who are still in the running. Furthermore, they've stated that they may make the same deal available to other bidders.

£72+m is the maximum liability to HMRC in relation to the Big Tax Case, if we are found to have mis-administered EBTs and if we are held for the full amount, full interest and full penalties. Many experts have said that this is not likely, and any liability, if there even is one, is likely to be of a much lower figure.

So, potentially, the figure could be roughly £100m less, which makes a CVA much more possible.

That said, financial experts such as David Bick and David Hillier have stated that as things stand, a CVA exit from administration is much more likely than liquidation, even with full liabilities.

Nonetheless, that's simply too rational, factual and positive for certain outlets.

How dare you tell the truth

One thing you forgot fella, 9 Million Compensation claim against CB. This will be lodged on the 16th of April, that plus the 2.7 Million that HMRC have relating to the WTC. (this has not been released to anyone and its will be used to pay part of the wee bill once the final figure is known)

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

How dare you tell the truth

One thing you forgot fella, 9 Million Compensation claim against CB. This will be lodged on the 16th of April, that plus the 2.7 Million that HMRC have relating to the WTC. (this has not been released to anyone and its will be used to pay part of the wee bill once the final figure is known)

Thank you for posting this.

I'll add it as a quote to the OP, since you raise valid and important points, also strangely missed by the media.

They have very much gone for the "headline figure".

[FirrhillLoyal 318]

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,449]

Not all that money is due or even overdue.

thats what i dont get, we dont owe rapid any money until summer yet they are deemed as a creditor

[Marco Negri's Beard 1,423]

Well said, the media up here are fucking pathetic, will try to sell a story any way they can. It's pathetic

[damien1 29]

thats what i dont get, we dont owe rapid any money until summer yet they are deemed as a creditor

Creditor status is just all the sums we owe, not when we owe it or in what format. So it is a bit misleading.

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

thats what i dont get, we dont owe rapid any money until summer yet they are deemed as a creditor

I believe the role of Administrator is to try to find some resolution for all creditors, hence the inclusion of Ibrox debenture holders, which were another £7m of debt that can be considered separate to the issues, but probably won't be. These people will be fans who weren't expecting or wanting to be paid.

[A.T.G 10,773]

It would be interesting to see how long some of these debts have been sitting on the ledger

I doubt d&p would have had time to look through every single account

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,449]

Creditor status is just all the sums we owe, not when we owe it or in what format. So it is a bit misleading.

but the point is that we dont owe rapid any money until the summer, why would they even bother thinking about a CVA when we are apparently going to be out of Admin by season end

i know we owe rapid money per the jelavic signing, but in effect we dont "owe" them money until the date of the next payment, thats like saying every SPL team next season are creditors because we will owe them ticket money that we will sell on to our fans

[colin 18]

I was waiting on a bear phoning to to clyde tonight to point this fact out, Ticketus and HRMC should not be lumped into the total. I emailed SSB but no one responded to my point, and as I am in Canada I didn't phone, but needless to say some callers were slevering every time 134 was mentioned and to my shock some even said they were bears and before anyone asks, it's the only radio station I get on the net

[islandblue 366]

Don't spioil the Bheasts night with truth let's wait till we walk away from this nightmare and watch them combust and disappear

[nachothelegend 1,932]

Well said, the media up here are fucking pathetic, will try to sell a story any way they can. It's pathetic

Time to start Questioning them and putting Pressure on them .

They are Obviously trying to Massage the Figures to catch the Headlines .

Time to fight back, and fight our Corner.

This is why we are Portraid by the Mhedia as Bigots, and Knuckledraggers,we allowed them to Print, and Spew anything about us whilst we sat Back.

Things are about to change for the Better ,it is heading for the end Game.

About time too. No Surrender to Liquidation.

[sergio 1,199]

There's also the £7.7million the debenture holders are unlikely to ask for.

The 800K is not "yet" owed to Hearts

Oh and Celtic have still to pay us for the last OF game ...

[Marco Negri's Beard 1,423]

Time to start Questioning them and putting Pressure on them .

They are Obviously trying to Massage the Figures to catch the Headlines .

Time to fight back, and fight our Corner.

This is why we are Portraid by the Mhedia as Bigots, and Knuckledraggers,we allowed them to Print, and Spew anything about us whilst we sat Back.

Things are about to change for the Better ,it is heading for the end Game.

About time too. No Surrender to Liquidation.

The media are the media - they'll always be cunts, they'll always stretch the truth and they'll always make mountains out of molehills. I think we are big victims to that up here at the moment but I don't think it is limited to us. Not entirely sure what you can do about it really. Can fight back but then they'll just attack you for that. A thought for another time methinks!

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

I also think the choice of wording in the paragraph below, from BBC Scotland, is both noteworthy and revealing but also unsurprising:

And taxpayer-funded bodies also owed money include: Strathclyde Police (£51,882), Scottish Ambulance Service (£8,438), Culture and Sport Glasgow (£10,338), Glasgow City Council (£7,000), Argyll and Bute Council (£406), and Edinburgh City Council (£90).

[gogzy 31,195]

The fact that the rapid and hearts money are in that list, other debts too probably is that we dont owe those payments NOW.

Thats like saying someone owes the bank 70k but forgetting to mention its a mottgage and they dont owe it all right away.

[Turnberry18 3,204]

The total potential debt could reach £135m.

However, £27m approx, is from Ticketus, who may do a deal with TBK, who are still in the running. Furthermore, they've stated that they may make the same deal available to other bidders.

£72+m is the maximum liability to HMRC in relation to the Big Tax Case, if we are found to have mis-administered EBTs and if we are held for the full amount, full interest and full penalties. Many experts have said that this is not likely, and any liability, if there even is one, is likely to be of a much lower figure.

So, potentially, the figure could be roughly £100m less, which makes a CVA much more possible.

That said, financial experts such as David Bick and David Hillier have stated that as things stand, a CVA exit from administration is much more likely than liquidation, even with full liabilities.

Nonetheless, that's simply too rational, factual and positive for certain outlets.

Further to these points, sergio highlights:

So that's almost another £12m that can be deducted, taking the total down to a potential minimum of something almost as low as £20m. Thanks for this sergio.

That could even be cleared at a rate of 100p in the pound without much difficulty. Some CVAs have seen creditors returned single figures in terms of pence in the pound on their money. So even if we went for a low double figures rate of 10p, which is not totally unrealistic from my understanding, we could end up paying as little as £2.5m to creditors. Whilst this is far more optimistic outlook than the have suggested, it's not any more unrealistic than their claims.

However, even a half-way house between both extremes could see the debt being less than half the headline figure of £134m and paid at a rate between 25p to 50p in the pound. Those figures are likely to be far more realistic and easily achievable.

It's also worth considering the Rangers fans who are Ibrox debenture holders whose figure is £7.7m. They are unlikely to be wanting paid, but will get their share, unless there is a deal done with the Administrators to remove, or delay their return. The latter may not be legally within the remit of an Administrator who is charged with reducing debt, not adding to it.

Most of your OPs are fairly good, and this one is a good one also. What you have written here needs to be at the forefront of our minds. The problem is bad, it might turn out to be awful, but there could be a solution if given time. The Scottish media need a narrative that betrays the Rangers; but this situation could be redeemable.

[ronniemca 479]

The 800K is not "yet" owed to Hearts

Oh and Celtic have still to pay us for the last OF game ...

think the taigs also owe us a fee for young mcgeoch

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

Thanks mate.

The media always go for a sensational headline. When you look at the details, there are many subtleties to the story.

I always think it's worth sharing with fellow supporters when there's another scare story that isn't quite the full story. That's one of the best things about this board. Our posters take the information and digest it. Then they get to the truth of it.

Always look for the facts behind a story if there are indeed any. This time there are and it's far from gloomy. Even the most negative expert I've heard said that it was still possible for HMRC to agree to as little as 12p in the pound for full £134m liability and that was before Ticketus are removed. Their money may not be paid which increases HMRC's take.