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Liquidation and CVA Points of fact


Bluepeter9
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1. After a CVA we are debt free - unless the CVA is funded by debt! :anguish:

2. A CVA does get rid of the BTC (or the bidders are stupid) (This will be a negotiated no-fault - no liability out of court settlement)

3. In liquidation you dont lose your history - you buy that as goodwill and it carries on

4. Name Change: After Liquidation we would still be called Rangers Footlball Club - you buy that as an asset and change Newco to Rangers Foolball Club and Oldco becomes whatever.

Thats all!

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100% correct, but get your tin hat on!!

I had to edited it to add in one I missed - I should not need a tin hat as I am stating facts not advocating for liquidation (which we all know carries more foootball penalties) but there are those who will misconstrue. :beer1:

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1. After a CVA we are debt free - unless the CVA is funded by debt! :anguish:

2. A CVA does get rid of the BTC (or the bidders are stupid) (This will be a negotiated no-fault - no liability out of court settlement)

3. In liquidation you dont lose your history - you buy that as goodwill and it carries on

4. Name Change: After Liquidation we would still be called Rangers Footlball Club - you buy that as an asset and change Newco to Rangers Foolball Club and Oldco becomes whatever.

Thats all!

Thanks for posting this. (tu)

Can you explain the bit in bold, please?

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1. After a CVA we are debt free - unless the CVA is funded by debt! :anguish:

2. A CVA does get rid of the BTC (or the bidders are stupid) (This will be a negotiated no-fault - no liability out of court settlement)

3. In liquidation you dont lose your history - you buy that as goodwill and it carries on

4. Name Change: After Liquidation we would still be called Rangers Footlball Club - you buy that as an asset and change Newco to Rangers Foolball Club and Oldco becomes whatever.

Thats all!

further points liquidation brings a 3 year ban from Europe.

players are not obliged to join the newco they can walk away.

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further points liquidation brings a 3 year ban from Europe.

players are not obliged to join the newco they can walk away.

Think the fact that the players gave up the amount of money they did, the walking away would not be a problem. And the only talk of liquidation seems to be coming from mini , in that he s will not go down that route , thus making it look as this is what the other bidders are thinking , without mini actually saying it.

And one other point GS you mention other bidders have plan b,c adn d and make it out that it is all the same. Can you tell us as you seem to know the ins and outs of minis bid................what is minis b, c , and d options.

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Thanks for posting this. (tu)

Can you explain the bit in bold, please?

(What I would do) (ogh and trying to be brief as it is slightly involved) BUT:

Mechanics Example:

Total Debt with contingent liability for BTC £134M giving a debt to the tax man in the region of £85M-£90M (which gives MHRC a lot of power in CA vote)

say (£15M going to debt from new owners) Tax man gets large whack of that and are 'happy' because the BTC is NOT a given.

The Agreement:

So the agreement is something like -we will settle out of court and pay as if it was a large liability but tax case is dropped with 'no-fault' admitted (i.e. the tax case is dropped without us admitting liability - even though we have settled - its a strange way the law works - but it happens all the time). This alos means they are free to persue other businesses / clubs who have used tha - which they couldn't if they lose our case - which they might.

So HMRC swamp the other creditors - get a fair whack of cash - bet to keep pursuing other EBT users - and we get rid of BTC and get a CVA.

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further points liquidation brings a 3 year ban from Europe.

players are not obliged to join the newco they can walk away.

I know - I am NOT advocating LIquidation - just putting a list of facts that are consistently misconstrued or badly reported - or just lied about!

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1. After a CVA we are debt free - unless the CVA is funded by debt! :anguish:

2. A CVA does get rid of the BTC (or the bidders are stupid) (This will be a negotiated no-fault - no liability out of court settlement)

3. In liquidation you dont lose your history - you buy that as goodwill and it carries on

4. Name Change: After Liquidation we would still be called Rangers Footlball Club - you buy that as an asset and change Newco to Rangers Foolball Club and Oldco becomes whatever.

Thats all!

Cheers for that.

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The whole 'lose your history' piece has become ridiculous, and consistently seems to appear in articles and interviews, a decent number of other teams have gone into liquidation, or other financial restructuring models, and nobody considers any of them to have lost their history, the football authorities do not consider them to have lost their history, and it is an irritating and invidious lie.

I am not advocating liquidation at all, however, we should not write off the possibility that if there is a pot of money that equals say £20m, in a liquidation situation, that would go into the club, whereas in a CVA it goes to the creditors, and we definitely shouldn't write off that possibility on the basis of a lie about losing our history.

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Think the fact that the players gave up the amount of money they did, the walking away would not be a problem. And the only talk of liquidation seems to be coming from mini , in that he s will not go down that route , thus making it look as this is what the other bidders are thinking , without mini actually saying it.

And one other point GS you mention other bidders have plan b,c adn d and make it out that it is all the same. Can you tell us as you seem to know the ins and outs of minis bid................what is minis b, c , and d options.

given the clauses the players had inserted to there contracts id say walking away is a very real possibility if we don't have the right owners. especially with no Europe for 3 years and quite probably no spl trophy.

show me where p Murray has said other bids mean liquidation please?

so far as I can see there is no plan b c or d.

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(What I would do) (ogh and trying to be brief as it is slightly involved) BUT:

Mechanics Example:

Total Debt with contingent liability for BTC £134M giving a debt to the tax man in the region of £85M-£90M (which gives MHRC a lot of power in CA vote)

say (£15M going to debt from new owners) Tax man gets large whack of that and are 'happy' because the BTC is NOT a given.

The Agreement:

So the agreement is something like -we will settle out of court and pay as if it was a large liability but tax case is dropped with 'no-fault' admitted (i.e. the tax case is dropped without us admitting liability - even though we have settled - its a strange way the law works - but it happens all the time). This alos means they are free to persue other businesses / clubs who have used tha - which they couldn't if they lose our case - which they might.

So HMRC swamp the other creditors - get a fair whack of cash - bet to keep pursuing other EBT users - and we get rid of BTC and get a CVA.

Thanks for the fulsome response.

Would I be correct in interpreting that as something unhelpful to those "bad people" who are angling for greater punishment?

i.e. Their claims of further penalties, usually retrospective, would lose their central point since no "wrongdoing" has been proven?

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given the clauses the players had inserted to there contracts id say walking away is a very real possibility if we don't have the right owners. especially with no Europe for 3 years and quite probably no spl trophy.

show me where p Murray has said other bids mean liquidation please?

so far as I can see there is no plan b c or d.

OMG he doesn't need to say it , but , can't believe I have to explain this to you doh.gif' alt='default_f_doh.gif' alt='doh'>.gif'> he has the knack through his press releases and his buddies in the press putting the spin on it. He should only have need to answer the point that he is for the cva route once, but always slips it in.

The fact that he has now , b, c or d well so much for being the wiz kid then. Christ he needs to be kicked into touch now.

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OMG he doesn't need to say it , but , can't believe I have to explain this to you doh.gif' alt='default_f_doh.gif' alt='doh'>.gif'> he has the knack through his press releases and his buddies in the press putting the spin on it. He should only have need to answer the point that he is for the cva route once, but always slips it in.

The fact that he has now , b, c or d well so much for being the wiz kid then. Christ he needs to be kicked into touch now.

so he hasn't said it.

why did you say he did :(

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so he hasn't said it.

why did you say he did :(

Phewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, you never stop to read do you.

Will be a disaster to follow what appears to be whytes disaster if mini steals the club. And his own version of goebbels he that is leggo is another one who has lost whatever credibility he had with his ramblings about mini/merlin whatever , or as i would prefer to call him The Pretender.

just read leggats ramblings and then go back to his ramblings from May 2011.

He has alleged to have offered £10 m cash (sorry his backers have) then is relying on a share issue. And has made bedfellows with ticketus these evil people that whyte dealt with.

So hope as Monday follows Sunday this pretender never sits in the seat he craves.

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further points liquidation brings a 3 year ban from Europe.

players are not obliged to join the newco they can walk away.

Apart from the 3 year Euro ban which we have no guarantees we'll qualify for would be a blow yes. However, if we managed to hold on to our players with Rangers at heart it wouldn't be catastrophic. I don't want liquidation though.

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Liquidation of Rangers FC (the club) is impossible.

Liquidation is a mechanism applied to companies.

Rangers FC is the business withing the company.

In the event a winding up order is served, the companies assets will be sold prior to the club being declaired liquidated.

The clubs 'goodwill' (trading rights and history) are an asset that will be up for sale.

Buying this 'goodwill' ensures Rangers live on.

Old company liquidate, Rangers exist as NewCo.

CVA is still the way to go though.

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Phewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, you never stop to read do you.

Will be a disaster to follow what appears to be whytes disaster if mini steals the club. And his own version of goebbels he that is leggo is another one who has lost whatever credibility he had with his ramblings about mini/merlin whatever , or as i would prefer to call him The Pretender.

just read leggats ramblings and then go back to his ramblings from May 2011.

He has alleged to have offered £10 m cash (sorry his backers have) then is relying on a share issue. And has made bedfellows with ticketus these evil people that whyte dealt with.

So hope as Monday follows Sunday this pretender never sits in the seat he craves.

leggo :lol:

you've lost your mind kid.

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Liquidation of Rangers FC (the club) is impossible.

Liquidation is a mechanism applied to companies.

Rangers FC is the business withing the company.

In the event a winding up order is served, the companies assets will be sold prior to the club being declaired liquidated.

The clubs 'goodwill' (trading rights and history) are an asset that will be up for sale.

Buying this 'goodwill' ensures Rangers live on.

Old company liquidate, Rangers exist as NewCo.

CVA is still the way to go though.

and anyone can buy the assets ie players? well any football club.

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I am not advocating liquidation at all, however, we should not write off the possibility that if there is a pot of money that equals say £20m, in a liquidation situation, that would go into the club, whereas in a CVA it goes to the creditors, and we definitely shouldn't write off that possibility on the basis of a lie about losing our history.

But don't lose sight of the fact that the £20m (and more) would need to be spent replacing the players that we lost in the event of liquidation, which makes the above argument redundant. (tu)

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(What I would do) (ogh and trying to be brief as it is slightly involved) BUT:

Mechanics Example:

Total Debt with contingent liability for BTC £134M giving a debt to the tax man in the region of £85M-£90M (which gives MHRC a lot of power in CA vote)

say (£15M going to debt from new owners) Tax man gets large whack of that and are 'happy' because the BTC is NOT a given.

The Agreement:

So the agreement is something like -we will settle out of court and pay as if it was a large liability but tax case is dropped with 'no-fault' admitted (i.e. the tax case is dropped without us admitting liability - even though we have settled - its a strange way the law works - but it happens all the time). This alos means they are free to persue other businesses / clubs who have used tha - which they couldn't if they lose our case - which they might.

So HMRC swamp the other creditors - get a fair whack of cash - bet to keep pursuing other EBT users - and we get rid of BTC and get a CVA.

That to me looks like a do able scenario.

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That to me looks like a do able scenario.

I would hope so too, especially when the reported bids are only for about £12m. I really don't see how HMRC would accept a CVA for the BTC with that amount in the pot, especially when we have already offered to pay £10m out of the original £24m.

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