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Ronaldo, Xavi and Iniesta


Broxi
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These 3 are generally considered the 2nd, 3rd and 4th best players in the world and have been in that top bracket for years along with Messi consistently. Messi is regarded as the best player in the world and by many as the best ever but are these 3 players being underated because of him?

If Messi wasn't here just now would we be saying Ronaldo was one of the best players ever? Probably. When you look at goalscoring records Ronaldo's isn't much worse than Messi's yet no one seems to call Ronaldo one of the best ever. He just scored his 40th La Liga goal of the season! People here wank over Rooney and Van Persie and they're on about 25 goals each.

Do these 3 players also get put with with the greatest players in history? Or anyone else perhaps had some limelight taken, maybe rightfully, by Messi?

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Of course, they are very very close behind Messi in the "Best Player in the World" category.

But just because Messi could be "the greatest ever" doesn't mean Ronaldo should automatically be the second best ever. You have to draw comparisons I think on a like for like basis.

However, I would say, personally, Messi is the greatest ever, followed by Ronaldo.

It's an endless debate, and one which will never be settled as it's a matter of opinion, but many players of today's game eclipse those of yesterday's game for me.

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Of course, they are very very close behind Messi in the "Best Player in the World" category.

But just because Messi could be "the greatest ever" doesn't mean Ronaldo should automatically be the second best ever. You have to draw comparisons I think on a like for like basis.

However, I would say, personally, Messi is the greatest ever, followed by Ronaldo.

It's an endless debate, and one which will never be settled as it's a matter of opinion, but many players of today's game eclipse those of yesterday's game for me.

Not trying to say that Ronaldo is the 2nd greatest ever behind Messi, but he generally doesn't even get compared with Maradona, Pele etc which I'm sure he would if Messi wasn't around.

If you ask people who they would put as their best ever 5 then I don't think people would say Ronaldo. But I would think that they would say him if you took away Messi.

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It seems like you can't praise Ronaldo these days without someone bringing up Messi or Barcelona in general.

Its bogging.

That isn't totally true.

Many of the arguments come about when people debate who is the best ever, and it is a debate.

We're on a forum where people are expected to share opinions, and some people think Messi is better than Ronaldo - the anger of someone's opinion, however severely they stress it, is fairly baffling.

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No but seriously, Ronaldo is a stunningly good footballer but I don't see his incredible goal-scoring achievements (nor Messi's) as the measure of how good they actually are. Goal-scoring exploits are the most bland, meaningless way of measuring stature within the game. It's the kind of thing Pele cares about, and Pele is a boring old limp-dicked fart.

It's also the reason why, even though I think Ronaldo is an incredible attacking talent, I do not credit him with being the second best player in the world simply as a result of the fact he constantly dicks all over league opposition. I do not think he is as Great a player as, say, Iniesta (capital G intended). I do not think he has IT in the same way as the greats of the game.

Of course, if you dare to take this line you expose yourself to the usual sneering accusations of being a Barcelona fanboy, but it's not that at all. I don't even think Ronaldo is the best player at Real Madrid.

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That isn't totally true.

Many of the arguments come about when people debate who is the best ever, and it is a debate.

We're on a forum where people are expected to share opinions, and some people think Messi is better than Ronaldo - the anger of someone's opinion, however severely they stress it, is fairly baffling.

I wasn't talking about on here.

I meant when you see pundits talking about him after a Real game, or just chatting away in general to cunts in the pub, from my experience Messi always seems to get brought up when Ronaldo is the subject.

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No but seriously, Ronaldo is a stunningly good footballer but I don't see his incredible goal-scoring achievements (nor Messi's) as the measure of how good they actually are. Goal-scoring exploits are the most bland, meaningless way of measuring stature within the game. It's the kind of thing Pele cares about, and Pele is a boring old limp-dicked fart.

It's also the reason why, even though I think Ronaldo is an incredible attacking talent, I do not credit him with being the second best player in the world simply as a result of the fact he constantly dicks all over league opposition. I do not think he is as Great a player as, say, Iniesta (capital G intended). I do not think he has IT in the same way as the greats of the game.

Of course, if you dare to take this line you expose yourself to the usual sneering accusations of being a Barcelona fanboy, but it's not that at all. I don't even think Ronaldo is the best player at Real Madrid.

I completely agree with all of that. (tu)

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No but seriously, Ronaldo is a stunningly good footballer but I don't see his incredible goal-scoring achievements (nor Messi's) as the measure of how good they actually are. Goal-scoring exploits are the most bland, meaningless way of measuring stature within the game. It's the kind of thing Pele cares about, and Pele is a boring old limp-dicked fart.

It's also the reason why, even though I think Ronaldo is an incredible attacking talent, I do not credit him with being the second best player in the world simply as a result of the fact he constantly dicks all over league opposition. I do not think he is as Great a player as, say, Iniesta (capital G intended). I do not think he has IT in the same way as the greats of the game.

Of course, if you dare to take this line you expose yourself to the usual sneering accusations of being a Barcelona fanboy, but it's not that at all. I don't even think Ronaldo is the best player at Real Madrid.

That was a decent post until there IMO. :lol:

Who would you say is better?

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I wasn't talking about on here.

I meant when you see pundits talking about him after a Real game, or just chatting away in general to cunts in the pub, from my experience Messi always seems to get brought up when Ronaldo is the subject.

This is (and always has been and always will be) the way in all sports. Why get annoyed about it? Ali and Frazier. McEnroe and Connors. Federer and Nadal. Magic Johnson and Larry Bird etc, etc.

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No but seriously, Ronaldo is a stunningly good footballer but I don't see his incredible goal-scoring achievements (nor Messi's) as the measure of how good they actually are. Goal-scoring exploits are the most bland, meaningless way of measuring stature within the game. It's the kind of thing Pele cares about, and Pele is a boring old limp-dicked fart.

It's also the reason why, even though I think Ronaldo is an incredible attacking talent, I do not credit him with being the second best player in the world simply as a result of the fact he constantly dicks all over league opposition. I do not think he is as Great a player as, say, Iniesta (capital G intended). I do not think he has IT in the same way as the greats of the game.

Of course, if you dare to take this line you expose yourself to the usual sneering accusations of being a Barcelona fanboy, but it's not that at all. I don't even think Ronaldo is the best player at Real Madrid.

I think it depends if you measure style and elegance over pure effectiveness. Ozil is the most pleasing-on-the-eye (in a football sense) footballer at RM but only Messi can rival how effective Ronaldo is.

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Not trying to say that Ronaldo is the 2nd greatest ever behind Messi, but he generally doesn't even get compared with Maradona, Pele etc which I'm sure he would if Messi wasn't around.

If you ask people who they would put as their best ever 5 then I don't think people would say Ronaldo. But I would think that they would say him if you took away Messi.

I understand what your saying mate.

For some people, I think they find it difficult to draw comparisons, as I said previously, between yesterday's players and today's players due to not having seen them all play at their peak.

Take someone who has vast experience of your Maradona's, Pele's, Ronaldo's and Messi's and you might be able to give someone's opinion the "preferred opinion" status.

However, many people will go on the basis of what they have seen and the fact of the matter is Broxi is it's their own opinion. You have your opinion and they have theirs.

If it was me? I wouldn't like to be put on the spot 00000041.gif It could be said any player is the greatest ever at what they do best. Messi, without doubt, is the greatest ever. Ronaldo isn't far behind. After that? I'm done. You have Xavi, Maradona, Pele, Ronaldinho, Henry, Viera, Fat Ronaldo, Zidane, Robben (who I feel doesn't often get the publicity he should), Cryuff.

So many top class players, so many opinions and still none of them will be right. 00000042.gif

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This is (and always has been and always will be) the way in all sports. Why get annoyed about it? Ali and Frazier. McEnroe and Connors. Federer and Nadal. Magic Johnson and Larry Bird etc, etc.

It doesn't actually annoy me, I was pointing it out as an example of what the op was talking about when he said the above 3 were underrated because Messi gets regarded as the best ever.

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Iker Casillas.

I would rather have Ronaldo in my team than Casillas.

I don't think he is the best keeper in the world either.

If your going to bring up the "of course because Ronaldo's the one who scores the goals but Casillas is a better player" argument or something similar then I would still disagree. :)

My opinion though.

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I wasn't talking about on here.

I meant when you see pundits talking about him after a Real game, or just chatting away in general to cunts in the pub, from my experience Messi always seems to get brought up when Ronaldo is the subject.

Can you speak about them separately though?

It's much the same with Messi, people who argue he isn't the best always bring up Xavi and Iniesta - saying they make him what he is - I don't think it's exclusive to Ronaldo.

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I think it depends if you measure style and elegance over pure effectiveness. Ozil is the most pleasing-on-the-eye (in a football sense) footballer at RM but only Messi can rival how effective Ronaldo is.

It depends how you measure effectiveness though. Not that I had Ozil in mind when I said that, but to take your example, Ozil has created more goals for Ronaldo than anyone else at Real. He is not perfect and has tended to fade out of big games but he is enormously talented, younger and shows flashes of a kind of genius that Ronaldo doesn't possess, for all his physical prowess. On the other hand, Ronaldo is the one who actually puts the ball in the net, and he does it so often that it goes from being something that even David Healy does occasionally to "OH MY GOD SO IMPRESSIVE" because it's done relentlessly. But Ronaldo is not the greatest goal-scorer of all time. Gerd Muller scored more goals than Ronaldo, and he scored them in every game. He scored them in world cups galore. Very few people put Gerd Muller in the Pele/Maradona tier, so why the hell should we put Ronaldo in there? He's going to have to do a lot more than put balls in nets.

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Can you speak about them separately though?

It's much the same with Messi, people who argue he isn't the best always bring up Xavi and Iniesta - saying they make him what he is - I don't think it's exclusive to Ronaldo.

I've honestly never really heard anyone bring up Xavi or Iniesta when it comes to Messi.

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I would rather have Ronaldo in my team than Casillas.

I don't think he is the best keeper in the world either.

If your going to bring up the "of course because Ronaldo's the one who scores the goals but Casillas is a better player" argument or something similar then I would still disagree. :)

My opinion though.

I don't think Casillas is the best keeper in the world either and I don't think he's the keeper he once was, but I think over his career he has been in the handful of the greatest who ever played the game. I don't think that's true of Ronaldo, at all. Greatness is about more than stats. It's about more than talent, even. Iker Casillas won everything there is to win in the game. He captained his country to a European Championship and a World Cup before he even turned 30. It doesn't matter very much to me that Ronaldo smashed in the goals against Atletico Madrid tonight because there was only one true great of the game on the pitch, and that was his goalkeeper.

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Can you speak about them separately though?

It's much the same with Messi, people who argue he isn't the best always bring up Xavi and Iniesta - saying they make him what he is - I don't think it's exclusive to Ronaldo.

I think the argument that Xavi and Iniesta make Messi is way off. It isn't like all Messi's goals are tap ins after Xavi or Iniesta do all the work. How many times does Messi just pick the ball up, skin a few players and then put it in? More often that not he creates his own goals.

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