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Bringing the Game Into Disrepute


sprotson11
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Humour me with a hypothetical scenario.

In this scenario I am self employed and a member of a gold club. My wife does my accounts and has deliberately not paid my taxes. With this money she has instead bought me golf lessons which has resulted in my game improving, so I am better than everyone else at my club. HMRC find out I have not being paying taxes and decide to take me to court. The golf club hear about this and decide to charge me with bringing the game into disrepute.

Do you think in the real world a golf club would do that?

Rangers have been punished for a similar situation, yet no one is arguing that they should not, why not?

The argument has only been that the punishment is not available in the rule book. Why were Motherwell, Dundee, Livingston and Gretna not subject to this sort of with hunt when they all went into administration, they all owed HMRC money??

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The argument has only been that the punishment is not available in the rule book. Why were Motherwell, Dundee, Livingston and Gretna not subject to this sort of witchhunt when they all went into administration, they all owed HMRC money??

That is the bit no one picks up on!!

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I agree that the punishments, and rush to compound punishment on punishment is unseemly, unfair, and blatantly biased (for whatever reason).

However, we do need to recognise that Craig Whyte wasn't just a random individual who did some things he shouldn't, he was (and still is) the owner of the club, and he was the chairman of the club. He acted in our name, and I do understand why people find it difficult to separate the actions of the club from that of the owner. When we talk about other clubs, do we separate them? Are we wanting to boycott St. Mirren and Dunfermline because of the comments of their chairmen?

And that leads on to our biggest problem, which is that it looks like what Whyte did was worse than other clubs who fell into administration, as he seemed to be aiming to not pay the tax money, use it to keep us going, on the belief that we would lose the big tax case and go into admin, and the intention seems to have been to deliberately not pay tax, rather than to be unable to pay it.

Which, as I said at the start doesn't mean that those trying to punish aren't vindictive and moronic, but we also need to be honest about the situation we are in.

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I agree that the punishments, and rush to compound punishment on punishment is unseemly, unfair, and blatantly biased (for whatever reason).

However, we do need to recognise that Craig Whyte wasn't just a random individual who did some things he shouldn't, he was (and still is) the owner of the club, and he was the chairman of the club. He acted in our name, and I do understand why people find it difficult to separate the actions of the club from that of the owner. When we talk about other clubs, do we separate them? Are we wanting to boycott St. Mirren and Dunfermline because of the comments of their chairmen?

And that leads on to our biggest problem, which is that it looks like what Whyte did was worse than other clubs who fell into administration, as he seemed to be aiming to not pay the tax money, use it to keep us going, on the belief that we would lose the big tax case and go into admin, and the intention seems to have been to deliberately not pay tax, rather than to be unable to pay it.

Which, as I said at the start doesn't mean that those trying to punish aren't vindictive and moronic, but we also need to be honest about the situation we are in.

Lets be honest with the situation, no other Club in UK that has went in to Administration for not paying Taxes jas been punished the way our club has.

10 point deduction , £160,000 Fine,Euro Ban and an Illegal Transfer Ban, and they said the Club was corporately responsible which was not True .

The SFA are on a frenzie built up by hysteria from Fans ,and being influenced by anothet particular individual who is now pulling the strings in Scottish football.

The SFA are not being impartial in their desicion making, and very fact they are determined and hell bent to punish us is evident in that.

Its a fix and they arent hiding it.

The very fact you suggest whyte was prepared to deliberately run Rangers into the ground by not paying hmrc , proves without doubt that none of the original board members knew what was happening, and therefor the SFA where quick to judge Rangers guilty, of bringing the Game in to direpute.

They are stting us up ,and are Biassed and Corrupt to the Core ,and have been caught out.

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The very fact you suggest whyte was prepared to deliberately run Rangers into the ground by not paying hmrc , proves without doubt that none of the original board members knew what was happening,

Am certainly not saying they knew but am not sure how this proves they didn't. I think the difference between the scenario of the OP and Rangers scenario is there are no explicit financial fair play rules in golf.

At this stage the punishment does not fit the crime, in fact the punishment chosen does not exist, which sums up the calibre of the administrators.

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Am certainly not saying they knew but am not sure how this proves they didn't. I think the difference between the scenario of the OP and Rangers scenario is there are no explicit financial fair play rules in golf.

At this stage the punishment does not fit the crime, in fact the punishment chosen does not exist, which sums up the calibre of the administrators.

I suggest to you that we have already been punished .

Thats the key here, is the fact tjat Rangers have already recieved enough punishment for the actions of one man .And the SFA are prepared to just trump up rules to suit this situation and just change rules which are made up to deliberately affect Rangers FC .

If Administration happens to any otjer Club undrr the same rules it will destroy them No other Club could survive the punnishment we are recieving.

The illegal Transfer Embargo had an age clause designed in it to prevent us specifically signing players over 18 . They never done that with Dundees Transfer ban , they got round theirs by signing trialiats.

We couldnt even do that .

They have set us up and its collective

No transparency or Impartiality in it for Rangers.

Punish but punish fairly as Ally said.

My original comments where directed at legalbagle

but feel free to comment.

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I do not for a minute disagree that the punishment appears to be disproportionate. Nor do I doubt that the outpourings from other chairmen whose clubs would benefit in the short term from Rangers demise are biased.

However my question to you was regards the board and your statement that "proves beyond doubt" that they did not know what was going on. As I said, I am not saying they did.

If you could explain that to me I would be very grateful.

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I suggest to you that we have already been punished .

And the SFA are prepared to just trump up rules to suit this situation and just change rules which are made up to deliberately affect Rangers FC

You're right, and it's absolutely ridiculous that they are changing rules which are affecting Rangers - I don't see how that can even be allowed within football law.

If a billionaire secret-Rangers-fan for example bought Aberdeen and ran it into the ground, to later further punish Aberdeen for the actions of that one man would be simply ridiculous. Craig Whyte is the one to blame, not Rangers.

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Lets be honest with the situation, no other Club in UK that has went in to Administration for not paying Taxes jas been punished the way our club has.

10 point deduction , £160,000 Fine,Euro Ban and an Illegal Transfer Ban, and they said the Club was corporately responsible which was not True .

The SFA are on a frenzie built up by hysteria from Fans ,and being influenced by anothet particular individual who is now pulling the strings in Scottish football.

The SFA are not being impartial in their desicion making, and very fact they are determined and hell bent to punish us is evident in that.

Its a fix and they arent hiding it.

The very fact you suggest whyte was prepared to deliberately run Rangers into the ground by not paying hmrc , proves without doubt that none of the original board members knew what was happening, and therefor the SFA where quick to judge Rangers guilty, of bringing the Game in to direpute.

They are stting us up ,and are Biassed and Corrupt to the Core ,and have been caught out.

Perfectly supported by the just as much biased and corrupt Scottish media

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I do not for a minute disagree that the punishment appears to be disproportionate. Nor do I doubt that the outpourings from other chairmen whose clubs would benefit in the short term from Rangers demise are biased.

However my question to you was regards the board and your statement that "proves beyond doubt" that they did not know what was going on. As I said, I am not saying they did.

If you could explain that to me I would be very grateful.

Ok Firstly I dont personally have evidence to support the Fact that none of the Board of Directors, who where inside Ibrox, did not know what Craig Whyte was up too.

But would you agree that Craig Whyte, delliberately missed payments to HMRC for Tax and NIC payments , therefor did so whilst isscolating the Board members ,and kept them in the Dark ,with reguards to what he was doing.

Do you think that if the Board knew ,what was going on then ,would they have sat idly buy without saying anything to the Mhedia ,or each other on the subject?

I dont think they would have allowed the Shyster that is whyte, who has told lie after Lie to every one, and who hoodwinked all involved in this sorry affair.

The SFA have not taken any of the circumstances into consideration ,when passing any judgement on Rangers .

I dont believe corporately that all the board knew, what was occurring under their noses.

If they did then I would be asking questions of them, and would like an investigation to find out if they knew anything.

The fact is the SFA have not even probably spoken to those involved but, just decided to involve them all, and judge them too.

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Ok Firstly I dont personally have evidence to support the Fact that none of the Board of Directors, who where inside Ibrox, did not know what Craig Whyte was up too.

**Ok, that's really what I was wanting to know.

But would you agree that Craig Whyte, delliberately missed payments to HMRC for Tax and NIC payments , therefor did so whilst isscolating the Board members ,and kept them in the Dark ,with reguards to what he was doing.

**I certainly agree the missed payments were deliberate. I don't know whether the rest of the board were in the dark or not.

Do you think that if the Board knew ,what was going on then ,would they have sat idly buy without saying anything to the Mhedia ,or each other on the subject?

**I would certainly like to think not.

I dont think they would have allowed the Shyster that is whyte, who has told lie after Lie to every one, and who hoodwinked all involved in this sorry affair.

**Do you really think he has hoodwinked everyone? Do you not think anyone had an inkling?

The SFA have not taken any of the circumstances into consideration ,when passing any judgement on Rangers .

**I don't think it is incumbent upon them to take circumstances into account, although the SPL did when they paid gretnas wages.

I dont believe corporately that all the board knew, what was occurring under their noses.

**Is a board that does not know what is going on under it's nose really fit and proper and upholding their duties to the club?

If they did then I would be asking questions of them, and would like an investigation to find out if they knew anything.

**There is no question such an investigation must take place, internally and after the dust has settled. Not publicly and now.

The fact is the SFA have not even probably spoken to those involved but, just decided to involve them all, and judge them too.

**Unfortunately the situation affects the club as a whole and the board as a whole.

Am sorry I couldn't get the quote thing to work on my phone. I've indicated my answers with **.

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I still dont think the Board had any Idea , the simple fact in all of this is that Rangers Football Club was taken over by a Conman who lied to every one in his Path . I believe he isscolated the Board from the inner workings within the Club and in doing so carried out his sorded plan .It was that bad he managed to even sell of the Arsenal shares , I am convinced if Mr Grieg knew ,or any of the others there knew, they would have tried to prevent him, that I have no doubt about.

But the truth has to be Saught in all of this, not via newsapers or the SFA but ,by an independant uncorrupt enquiry.

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Don't agree that board members didn't know what was going on.

While CW is/was the owner and chairman as with most companies he would have very little to do with the day to day running of the club.

Tax accounts would have been paid by the company secretary and accounts dept. For the amounts due not to have been paid there would have to have been an explicit instruction from CW to said people not to pay the accounts. Therefore others did know what was going on. Hence AJ's comment that CW was not to be trusted.

I think others in the board certainly knew what he was doing, but were unable to stop him as he was after all the owner of the club.

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I agree that the punishments, and rush to compound punishment on punishment is unseemly, unfair, and blatantly biased (for whatever reason).

However, we do need to recognise that Craig Whyte wasn't just a random individual who did some things he shouldn't, he was (and still is) the owner of the club, and he was the chairman of the club. He acted in our name, and I do understand why people find it difficult to separate the actions of the club from that of the owner. When we talk about other clubs, do we separate them? Are we wanting to boycott St. Mirren and Dunfermline because of the comments of their chairmen?

And that leads on to our biggest problem, which is that it looks like what Whyte did was worse than other clubs who fell into administration, as he seemed to be aiming to not pay the tax money, use it to keep us going, on the belief that we would lose the big tax case and go into admin, and the intention seems to have been to deliberately not pay tax, rather than to be unable to pay it.

Which, as I said at the start doesn't mean that those trying to punish aren't vindictive and moronic, but we also need to be honest about the situation we are in.

You're probably the second coolest beagle ever... after Kipper.

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Humour me with a hypothetical scenario.

In this scenario I am self employed and a member of a gold club. My wife does my accounts and has deliberately not paid my taxes. With this money she has instead bought me golf lessons which has resulted in my game improving, so I am better than everyone else at my club. HMRC find out I have not being paying taxes and decide to take me to court. The golf club hear about this and decide to charge me with bringing the game into disrepute.

Do you think in the real world a golf club would do that?

Rangers have been punished for a similar situation, yet no one is arguing that they should not, why not?

The argument has only been that the punishment is not available in the rule book. Why were Motherwell, Dundee, Livingston and Gretna not subject to this sort of with hunt when they all went into administration, they all owed HMRC money??

They might well do if you were a professional golfer. Or are you suggesting that the Gers are really a plumbing company and only play football on their day off?

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Don't agree that board members didn't know what was going on.

While CW is/was the owner and chairman as with most companies he would have very little to do with the day to day running of the club.

Tax accounts would have been paid by the company secretary and accounts dept. For the amounts due not to have been paid there would have to have been an explicit instruction from CW to said people not to pay the accounts. Therefore others did know what was going on. Hence AJ's comment that CW was not to be trusted.

I think others in the board certainly knew what he was doing, but were unable to stop him as he was after all the owner of the club.

So in your Opinion we are Guilty of Bringing the Game into disrepute, and we should just accept it. I have no proof to Prove otherwise, and you have no Proof to prove otherwise .

So we are both going on Opinion then.

My opinion is the Majority of them never Knew what was happening.

We agree with that much. Guilty by Mhedia we are. None of the Facts have yet been established in this mess.

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So in your Opinion we are Guilty of Bringing the Game into disrepute, and we should just accept it. I have no proof to Prove otherwise, and you have no Proof to prove otherwise .

So we are both going on Opinion then.

My opinion is the Majority of them never Knew what was happening.

We agree with that much. Guilty by Mhedia we are. None of the Facts have yet been established in this mess.

I agree and couple this with someone in a position who is scared of loosing their job if they stir things up. I would also suggest that the way Whyte went about things, coupled with money being paid into various other accounts suggested by the press, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that the same individuals were told it was paid from elsewhere! Now that is just a theory, but one that is within the realms of possibility given the other lies that Whyte came out with.

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I agree and couple this with someone in a position who is scared of loosing their job if they stir things up. I would also suggest that the way Whyte went about things, coupled with money being paid into various other accounts suggested by the press, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that the same individuals were told it was paid from elsewhere! Now that is just a theory, but one that is within the realms of possibility given the other lies that Whyte came out with.

OK then , the above Theory means that it is Highly unlikely that the Majority of the Board Did not know what was happening, so in that case the event wasn't Corporate then.

That kind of makes the SFA Judgement hypocritical in that they deemed the Actions Whyte done was Corporate.

That iis my Take on it , he lied to every one and Isolated them from the Inside . I therefore don't think the actions where Corporate in that every one of them Knew what was going on.

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OK then , the above Theory means that it is Highly unlikely that the Majority of the Board Did not know what was happening, so in that case the event wasn't Corporate then.

That kind of makes the SFA Judgement hypocritical in that they deemed the Actions Whyte done was Corporate.

That iis my Take on it , he lied to every one and Isolated them from the Inside . I therefore don't think the actions where Corporate in that every one of them Knew what was going on.

The fact that he was part of the corporate body gives vicarious liability to the company. Im not saying that is the way it shoud be but that is the way it is

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The fact that he was part of the corporate body gives vicarious liability to the company. Im not saying that is the way it shoud be but that is the way it is

Aha that's it then ,forgot Football is not a Sport any more its a Business.

The Club isn't what's important any more, its the Company that's important to them all.

How sad.

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Aha that's it then ,forgot Football is not a Sport any more its a Business.

The Club isn't what's important any more, its the Company that's important to them all.

How sad.

As far as the law is concerned, it is a legal entity (which is also why we could take the sfa to court BTW) and it treats them all the same way.

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As far as the law is concerned, it is a legal entity (which is also why we could take the sfa to court BTW) and it treats them all the same way.

Well in that case the SFA should have stayed within the Law when they decided to issue us with an unlawful Punishment.

No they just change it to suit themselves .

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