The Dude 20,026 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Just watchung the press review on Sky news there and seen that the Times was running a front page about 'morally repugnant' tax avoiders and how it costs the UK economy 14.5bn. In the brief detail given it sounded awfully like EBTs (or something similar) and how the Government was launcing a massive clampdown on it. They spoke about celebrities like Jimmy Carr (pictured on the front of the Times with this story) setting up companies and recieving loans from them as a means to pay less income tax. Has another wee piece of the puzzle fallen into place? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helicopter Sundae 5,967 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Just watchung the press review on Sky news there and seen that the Times was running a front page about 'morally repugnant' tax avoiders and how it costs the UK economy 14.5bn. In the brief detail given it sounded awfully like EBTs (or something similar) and how the Government was launcing a massive clampdown on it. They spoke about celebrities like Jimmy Carr (pictured on the front of the Times with this story) setting up companies and recieving loans from them as a means to pay less income tax. Has another wee piece of the puzzle fallen into place?Fuck the Times of London Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helicopter Sundae 5,967 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 For information, £14.5 billion sounds a huge sum of money, but we are running an annual deficit of around £120 billion, equal to the entire NHS budget, and rising, not falling, as the anti-cut fanatics keep ignoring. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMac 1,405 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 These are big now with interest rates so low. An interest free loan is only taxable on the interest saving. Someone gets a interest free loan of £1m from their company, interest rates are two percent, then they are taxed on £50,000. Probably something down those lines, not that much different from EBTs as you said. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redsox1 1,361 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Just watchung the press review on Sky news there and seen that the Times was running a front page about 'morally repugnant' tax avoiders and how it costs the UK economy 14.5bn. In the brief detail given it sounded awfully like EBTs (or something similar) and how the Government was launcing a massive clampdown on it. They spoke about celebrities like Jimmy Carr (pictured on the front of the Times with this story) setting up companies and recieving loans from them as a means to pay less income tax. Has another wee piece of the puzzle fallen into place?your prob right as that was what lennon got found out for last week. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude 20,026 Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 Fuck the Times of LondonAny other analysis you'd like to offer? The simple fact that this is making headlines and is not linked to RFC is a big thing imo. Sometimes those who are most vociferous in their objections are those with most to hide... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redsox1 1,361 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 as I said Lennon just got found out tax dodging and I`m sure they are after others. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude 20,026 Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 as I said Lennon just got found out tax dodging and I`m sure they are after others.Exactly. Could we now see those believed to have used them pursued? Does someone with deep enough pockets fight the taxman til the bitter end? Is there more impartial information in the media regarding these schemes, whilst not directly linking the story to Rangers of course because we are guilty without trial, and having much more edit ares opinion shared that those like the football finance expert who thinks the spl 'wouldn't notice' if sky withdrew their financial support. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albertz123 598 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 This place is fucked I'm moving to Greece for some stability. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helicopter Sundae 5,967 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I actually WANT the EBT/FTTT decision revealed.Information has seeped out, both from Jim Traynor, and another poster on here recently, that HMRC, in going after us so publicly, may have completely destroyed their own case.They have waited an awfully long time to "investigate" the EBTs, something not exactly hidden in our accounts.Remember this, The HMRC get tax avoidance schemes sent to them all the time, and they vet them.Most fail, and are deemed illegal, and companies are barred from using them, but others are passed, becoming legal ways for companies to not pay tax on money THEY EARNED.This is the exact opposite of tax evasion, where you wilfully hide earnings from the taxman.Our enemies have seized the high ground, by branding us tax EVADERS, when at the very worst, we have AVOIDED tax, and until the verdict is known, are innocent, until proven guilty.If Traynor is correct, we face a minor charge and a penalty of £6 -£12million.This is academic, because none of that will be payable.Another thing I heard was that the Revenue waited so long to bring this to the fore that in effect, they have allowed to be created the monster which has now crippled our club, leaving the Revenue massively out of pocket, instead of recovering several millions...a complete balls up, if they were intending to use it for debt reduction.If they are serious about chasing up the 8 EPL clubs, as the rumour suggests, who also have used EBTs' will they risk sending any or all of them into the abyss??Some would like the verdict to be quietly forgotten.I want full disclosure.If MIH, who I believe did all our Accounting work, in Edinburgh, and charged RFC an annual fee, it is THEY, not even necessarily US, who deserve to be hauled up in the courts.This verdict is crucial to us.I think we should be asking where is the final lowdown on this.If it was as bad as possible, then the £75 million quoted by Whyte would be worst scenario,and we would be called all the cheats under the sun, for obvious reason.But, I believe this to be an absolute bluff, and it has allowed all of the mob we now see gathered...the BBC and their hatchet jobs, the rangerstaxcase website, Alex Thomson, the list goes on and on.We need to know, and hope that the least worse case suggested is true, and then stand up and fuck it straight back at our detractors!Thanks, Dude. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast 9,182 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 News International obviously has the moral high ground. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude 20,026 Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 News International obviously has the moral high ground.Does anyone? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermopylae 15,286 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Surely it wasn't the EBTs that drove us to the wall it was the bill that whyte ran up with HMRC during his 10 months in charge.I do agree though that by leaving it so long to come after us on the EBTs HMRC made it more unlikely that they would get anything Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helicopter Sundae 5,967 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Surely it wasn't the EBTs that drove us to the wall it was the bill that whyte ran up with HMRC during his 10 months in charge.I do agree though that by leaving it so long to come after us on the EBTs HMRC made it more unlikely that they would get anythingThat really was the cause of the meltdown, Whyte!His Plan A; Champs League. oopsPlan B; Europa league. Oops.Plan C; run like fuck. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helicopter Sundae 5,967 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 And while I think about it, before enacting Plan C, transfer the Castle into his wife's name, in Costa Rica.And if she had divorced him, marry someone fucking quick, and get it into her name.There is probably a ladyboy in Thailand who is now the owner of a castle in Grantown. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMac 1,405 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 That really was the cause of the meltdown, Whyte!His Plan A; Champs League. oopsPlan B; Europa league. Oops.Plan C; run like fuck.Sums it up really. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raghead 24 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Wouldn't be film companies he set up would it? Like the 1s in many a Celtic players name Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaffbear 4,096 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 £14.5bn a year?EBT's are legal though.It's like living and working abroad and staying out the UK for more than 9 months per year,you don't pay UK income tax.Will they go chasing Golden Boy Rooney who failed to pay tax on his £1m a month salary?How about Man Utd,Liverpool,Arsenal,Chelsea etc with their £50m a year wage bill plus..How can they afford to pay their players that without some jiggery pokery going on.We're the scapegoats in all this and i bet we owe the least. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non_Sucumbi 876 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 £14.5bn a year?EBT's are legal though.It's like living and working abroad and staying out the UK for more than 9 months per year,you don't pay UK income tax.Will they go chasing Golden Boy Rooney who failed to pay tax on his £1m a month salary?How about Man Utd,Liverpool,Arsenal,Chelsea etc with their £50m a year wage bill plus..How can they afford to pay their players that without some jiggery pokery going on.We're the scapegoats in all this and i bet we owe the least.I think the 14.5bn was the money lost by HMRC through tax avoidance schemes not just EBTs.Two of the bigger players have been Vodafone and Klaxo Smith Kline. Who 'avoided' tax on billions of pounds through using Luxembourg based offices. It is believed that most PL teams have used EBT schemes. I have never quite understood why Rangers were chosen by HMRC as a target.Even 'Sporting Integrity' FC has used them. Just ask Juniniho. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluepeter9 5,167 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 tax avoidance is an industry in itself. people like vodaphone got away with 6 bn - we are small fry but are an example to the football ' industry' oh and not yet guilty! however it does seem we have a case to answer for dual contracts - that was against football rules and Murray has s lot to answer for far to many people getting the two issues mixed up Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesbro1976 162 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Vodaphone paid 1.25 billion from their 6billion bill. 850m up front and 450million over next 6 yrs I think it was. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonbryce 63 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 as I said Lennon just got found out tax dodging and I`m sure they are after others.Lennon's one was an abuse of government schemes designed to encourage investment in things that will create employment. They have certainly been covered in the newspapers in the past, but it isn't what they are covering in today's papers.In terms that the average person might understand, think of it as the difference between claiming benefits you are not entitled to (Lennon) and doing some work for cash and not telling the tax man about it (Murray). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helicopter Sundae 5,967 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Barclays Bank have recently been accused of running a tax avoidance scheme.In banking this is not allowed. They can advise clients on how to avoid tax, they cannot operate a scheme themselves.The journos came out with a potential cost to the bank of £500 million, then said that the final settlement would be around £125 million.In other words, HMRC announce a "worst possible case scenario", as in our case of around £45-49 million, and then the it is always settled at a vastly lower figure, as with Vodafone, and it will repeat itself with Barclays.It was Whyte ,and the media who talked up our liability to £75 million, and it has fucked up our club.As I said earlier on this thread, (please read it) the total that I believe we would be looking at having to pay would be around the £10 million mark. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluepeter 5,627 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Vodaphone paid 1.25 billion from their 6billion bill. 850m up front and 450million over next 6 yrs I think it was.Thank God you're not my accountant! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBG 13 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 The thing that gets me is that Jimmy Carr(as an example) knows nothing about avoiding tax. He has a financial advisor that can do all the donkey work for him.If anything changes Jimmy Carr is liable. It should be set in stone that any financial expert helping anyone avoid paying tax gets jail. That would learn them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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