stevotrueblue Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 On the face of it reading what their lawyers are saying it would appear Charlie has fucked up here. I dont really know anything about TUPE laws myself,, but something dosent add up here.Firstly CG has been caught out telling porkies a few times already,, the 20 investers that became 5 or 6,,, the investor he named that denied later that he had anything to do wae him and actually backed walters consortium,, the nod he was given from HMRC,, and lets no forget he also told us a week or so ago that the SPL Chairmen had told him we would definately be in the SPL next season (looking more unlikely each day),, He also told us the contracts had already been transferred to newco, but yet all these players keep saying they are refusing to agree to transfer over as if its not already been done. Now he tells us he will go to court and he will get money for them.I dont know who to believe anymore,, I certainly dont trust green yet,, what a mess.http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/328682 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I think it's just one legal teams opinion against another. There's never been a previous example of this situation at least in the UK. I suspect it will need to go to a high level court for their decision and then it will form the basis of a new football law a la Bosman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdocherty72 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Honestly won't be surprised if Green's fucked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Tiger Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Remember that in all legal cases 50% of the Lawyers are wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potdog Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Lawyers will do and say anything to get what is best for there client. lawyers are paid to see who can lie the best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmiston Drive Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 On the face of it reading what their lawyers are saying it would appear Charlie has fucked up here. I dont really know anything about TUPE laws myself,, but something dosent add up here.Firstly CG has been caught out telling porkies a few times already,, the 20 investers that became 5 or 6,,, the investor he named that denied later that he had anything to do wae him and actually backed walters consortium,, the nod he was given from HMRC,, and lets no forget he also told us a week or so ago that the SPL Chairmen had told him we would definately be in the SPL next season (looking more unlikely each day),, He also told us the contracts had already been transferred to newco, but yet all these players keep saying they are refusing to agree to transfer over as if its not already been done. Now he tells us he will go to court and he will get money for them.I dont know who to believe anymore,, I certainly dont trust green yet,, what a mess.http://www.express.c...sts/view/328682HI Bud................can you give me the link re Green saying the above.........cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky_ Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Imo their lawyer is argueing a weak technicality that not enough communication was given that a transfer would take place.When the sfa, fifa, or a judge looks at it, they will see this for what it is. 2 maggots finding an excuse to renegade on agreed contracts to pick up a big sign on fee elsewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Rd Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Of course Green has fecked up, im going through TUPE just now and I go across with all T&C apart from pension and if I dont want to accept transfer, I can leave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadman Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Are the player contracts lodged with the parent company or the football club. The way i understand it the company and the club are 2 separate entities under the same umbrella (Sevco) - if the players contracts reside within the football club then they are not being transferred but are being carried forward (the 'original' company, the oldco, is in liquidation but the 'original' football club continues with an unbroken line), am i right or on a completely different planet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluepeter9 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 the issue here I believe is one of player registration more than tupe - and that gives both side scope for being correct as player registration is the key here and I don't know if that has been tested in law? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Of course Green has fecked up, im going through TUPE just now and I go across with all T&C apart from pension and if I dont want to accept transfer, I can leaveI went through this 2 years ago. You can leave but without redundancy money but you can leave your job at any time without redundancy money. As everyone knows football is completely different from normal employment but a player cannot just leave whenever they like whilst under contract, whether this can happen under TUPE remains to be seen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Stevens Fan Club Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 the issue here I believe is one of player registration more than tupe - and that gives both side scope for being correct as player registration is the key here and I don't know if that has been tested in law?I think you're correct here.Also, the poster Cadman above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stardog Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I went through this 2 years ago. You can leave but without redundancy money but you can leave your job at any time without redundancy money. As everyone knows football is completely different from normal employment but a player cannot just leave whenever they like whilst under contract, whether this can happen under TUPE remains to be seenWas it the company that allowed you to leave without redundancy, or TUPE's conditions?http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1655The Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations (TUPE) protects employees' terms and conditions of employment when a business is transferred from one owner to another. Employees of the previous owner when the business changes hands automatically become employees of the new employer on the same terms and conditions. It's as if their employment contracts had originally been made with the new employer. Their continuity of service and any other rights are all preserved. Both old and new employers are required to inform and consult employees affected directly or indirectly by the transfer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab4113 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 At times i feel sorry for charles green, he seems to be the scapegoat for everything, he is trying to get us a league place,Sorting out all this mess, dealing with constant shit flung at him, hecannot be sitting holding players hands as well, these two are money grabbing bastatds, out injured half the time, picking up millions over the years, now bleating on about how big fans they are ,Fuck off and i hope a serious injury on both of you, you could have left tje club with a bit of dignity instaed of blaming green etc, not saying he is doing everything perfect and upfront, or he will be good for us, but at least he is tryin something, more than can be saidFor other big fans/ ex players ,managers etc, when it comes to putting cash in, they go quiet, so naismith and whittekar, fuck off parasite bastards, and there will be more following, just waiting to see what flak these two get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Was it the company that allowed you to leave without redundancy, or TUPE's conditions?http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1655Redundancy basically gets taken off the table as the new company keeps your T&Cs so you get the choice to transfer over or you can leave (as you can at anytime during your employment). Obviously the difference with football is that players can't just resign whenever they like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calgacus Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 The TUPE side of things is clear, Green doesn't have a leg to stand on. So he must be arguing from a Football registration point of view (though previously he did talk about TUPE) . I can see difficulties with that, since, as I understand it, the new ownership company hasn't had the 1899 Company's membership of the SFA transferred to it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueballss Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Remember that in all legal cases 50% of the Lawyers are wrong.true so true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevotrueblue Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 HI Bud................can you give me the link re Green saying the above.........cheers.Hi mate,, sorry cant find that anywhere anymore. Newsnow only go's back 20 pages and when I tried google all that comes up on the subject is all the new comments from SPL chairman etc etc.All i can say is that it was around the time that he went and met the SFA shortly after his takeover,,, think around the time we took them to court cos he had clear the air talks wae a lot of them then. It was worded along the lines of "I feel confindent that the team will play next season in the SPL, I spoke with several chairman who realise the finannial implications unlike their supporters they are businessmen"This was before the CVA was rejected tho when everyone was still hopefull of no newco. It was also before they changed the ruling on letting the clubs rather than the SPL Panel make the decision in the event of newco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachothelegend Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 These lawyers are going to make money thats for sure not us . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Right_To_Censor Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 It's not for tupe he's going after, it's the tapping of players and that's a no no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmiston Drive Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Hi mate,, sorry cant find that anywhere anymore. Newsnow only go's back 20 pages and when I tried google all that comes up on the subject is all the new comments from SPL chairman etc etc.All i can say is that it was around the time that he went and met the SFA shortly after his takeover,,, think around the time we took them to court cos he had clear the air talks wae a lot of them then. It was worded along the lines of "I feel confindent that the team will play next season in the SPL, I spoke with several chairman who realise the finannial implications unlike their supporters they are businessmen"This was before the CVA was rejected tho when everyone was still hopefull of no newco. It was also before they changed the ruling on letting the clubs rather than the SPL Panel make the decision in the event of newcoCheers for getting back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonbryce Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Are the player contracts lodged with the parent company or the football club. The way i understand it the company and the club are 2 separate entities under the same umbrella (Sevco) - if the players contracts reside within the football club then they are not being transferred but are being carried forward (the 'original' company, the oldco, is in liquidation but the 'original' football club continues with an unbroken line), am i right or on a completely different planet?If you worked at the oldco for 10 years before being TUPEd, then you are treated as having 10 years service at the newco. I'm not sure if that answers your question.If you are asking about SFA player registrations, Sevco Scotland Ltd is not registered as a football club yet, so it is no more able to register a football player with the league than I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Robot Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Are the player contracts lodged with the parent company or the football club. The way i understand it the company and the club are 2 separate entities under the same umbrella (Sevco) - if the players contracts reside within the football club then they are not being transferred but are being carried forward (the 'original' company, the oldco, is in liquidation but the 'original' football club continues with an unbroken line), am i right or on a completely different planet?which probably means tupe doesnt apply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southcoastbear Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 It's not for tupe he's going after, it's the tapping of players and that's a no noSurely there is little doubt this has been going on, it's proving it that may be the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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