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Why are we still singing about the UVF


StewGers

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The club is nothing to do with being a loyalist/ unionist/ monarchist or anything else. It's about supporting Glasgow Rangers. Our club was not founded on a political, religious or social agenda. People have used the club as a vehicle to peddle these ideals.

Yet the Club embraced them for decade after decade to suit it's own agenda in expanding the fan base to maximize revenue streams.

To put things in a slightly different light since all the arguments for and against, good or bad are getting us absolutely nowhere and will probably never change anyone's attitude anyway, if BF1 are the only section singing, and they are singing of the UVF then they are the majority of singers. Since simple majority usually wins, it's fair to say that unless 2 or more sections take up purely Rangers songs they will always have the right to sing whichever song they choose as long as it's not to the detriment of the Club. Most of the songs which were detrimental to our Club and image regarding the new 'naughty songs rule' have been ditched for the most part anyway. Whether Loyalist songs continue to be belted out home and away will be up to the majority of those singing and as long as this is The Blue Order and Union Bears, they will be.

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Yet the Club embraced them for decade after decade to suit it's own agenda in expanding the fan base to maximize revenue streams.

To put things in a slightly different light since all the arguments for and against, good or bad are getting us absolutely nowhere and will probably never change anyone's attitude anyway, if BF1 are the only section singing, and they are singing of the UVF then they are the majority of singers. Since simple majority usually wins, it's fair to say that unless 2 or more sections take up purely Rangers songs they will always have the right to sing whichever song they choose as long as it's not to the detriment of the Club. Most of the songs which were detrimental to our Club and image regarding the new 'naughty songs rule' have been ditched for the most part anyway. Whether Loyalist songs continue to be belted out home and away will be up to the majority of those singing and as long as this is The Blue Order and Union Bears, they will be.

So they can sing songs 'not to the detriment of the club' and in the very next sentence say they sing songs that are damaging to the club.

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I never said it was, you are the one that is coming out with statements.

You asked why someone followed the club knowing some of the songs that were sung as part of our history. Implying that this is what our club stands for, if you don't like it don't follow or at least that's how it read.

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So they can sing songs 'not to the detriment of the club' and in the very next sentence say they sing songs that are damaging to the club.

Funny because it says the songs that harmed the Club have been ditched. Where exactly are Daddy's Uniform, Number 1 Platoon, We Are Coming harming Rangers? I don't recall the Club ever asking us to stop singing those songs and the ones they have asked us to stop singing, we have stopped singing.

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I have never posted before, but felt i had to after the first couple of away games this season.

I cant get my head round why some fans are still singing about the UVF at Gers games. Dont get me wrong, most fans, including myself have sung these types of songs in the past but there is no place for them anymore.

This is the start of a new adventure for all Gers fans and we should take this opportunity to rid ourselves of certain songs that do us no favours and have nothing to do with Rangers in the 21st Century.

Quite simply, dont complain about what the media and certain journalists write about Rangers fans when some fans refuse to let go the stuff that is now simply irrelevant and you know they will pick up on.

We should be reading about the amazing suppport given to a team in the fourth tier of scottish football and fans who do themselves proud in the way they support their team and not about a small group who refuse to let go of the past.

Fee foe five thumb i smell the blood of a fenin 1!

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You asked why someone followed the club knowing some of the songs that were sung as part of our history. Implying that this is what our club stands for, if you don't like it don't follow or at least that's how it read.

The club is nothing to do with being a loyalist/ unionist/ monarchist or anything else. It's about supporting Glasgow Rangers. Our club was not founded on a political, religious or social agenda. People have used the club as a vehicle to peddle these ideals.

What i have asked you, is to back up what you have posted with facts.

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they will always have the right to sing whichever song they choose as long as it's not to the detriment of the Club. Most of the songs which were detrimental to our Club and image regarding the new 'naughty songs rule' have been ditched for the most part anyway.

Your words. Not mine.

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If it is the majority then why are the 'loyalist' fans also pissing and moaning about the fact that only BF1 sings? Some fucking majority that. One section of the whole stadium is the majority? School did you go to?

Everything you've said regarding the political makeup of the union, national anthems etc. has been correct so you clearly know what you're talking about.

But you're talking as if the whole stadium sings the non-political songs and only TBO etc. sing the political ones. It's that the rest of the stadium rarely sing anything so of course it's going to be BF1 who sing the political songs, they're the only ones singing any!

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In 1912 a home rule bill England would impose,

And so Lord Carson he did raise an army to oppose,

But off to France our boys were sent and Carson he did say,

Go take our sons and tell the h*** that we are on our way.

crabflute.gif

Great song !! ,of course the UVF fought the Germans as part of the Ulster Division including those from my family who were in the it during WW1.

The UVF is something every Ulsterman and our friends in the rest of the UK can be very proud of. Their story is unique. They signed the Ulster covenant 100 years ago and pledged to resist Ulster being taken out of the Union by any means necessary. Many signed the Covenant in their own blood. Guns were smuggled in a major military operation on the steamer Clyde Valley into Larne and distributed overnight by car and lorry throughout Ulster to arm the 100,000 strong Ulster Volunteer force.The crisis for Ulster was very real and a bloody civil war was on the cards but the outbreak of WW1 moved the crisis from Ulster to Europe and Germany. In the rest of the UK men were conscripted into the Army, in northern Ireland they didn’t have to go but the UVF volunteered to go and combined with the Royal Irish fusiliers , Royal inniskilling fusiliers and the Royal Irish rifles formed the 36th Ulster division.

On the morning of 1st July 1916 a bugle sounded they went over the top in one of the most heroic charges of the first world war or any war. The British army suffered the most casualties ever in one day right along the front but through the storm of lead and shrapnel that drove ever other brave British division back the Ulstermen of the 36th Division reached the German trenches ,drove the Germans back fighting hand to hand and took the schwaben redoubt (Fort) Military historians all agree that the courage of the men of the 36th that day was outstanding. They had no support on either flank took massive casualties the whole German artillery reigning shells on them but they held until they had no option but to retreat or be wiped out. Almost every home in Ulster was affected as the flower of Ulster’s youth laid down their lives. The Division was relieved on 2 July, having suffered 5104 casualties of who approximately 2069 died. I am proud of those from my family who were volunteers and who gave their lives .

"I am not an Ulsterman but yesterday, the 1st. July 1916, as I followed their amazing attack, I felt that I would rather be an Ulsterman than anything else in the world." Capt W Spender

“The men of Ulster have proved how nobly they fight and die ..." King George V

Where’s it all end ? Lets stop singing Derrys walls , the Sash , I was born Under a Union Jack , Rule Britannia ? Rangers is a British club. Your choice turn your nose up at the UVF and sing what you want but be careful not to disrespect the men of the UVF of long ago.

No Surrender

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Everything you've said regarding the political makeup of the union, national anthems etc. has been correct so you clearly know what you're talking about.

But you're talking as if the whole stadium sings the non-political songs and only TBO etc. sing the political ones. It's that the rest of the stadium rarely sing anything so of course it's going to be BF1 who sing the political songs, they're the only ones singing any!

Let me make clear this isn't a stick to beat the singing guys with. I have nothing but praise for them. I just feel particularly given the circumstances of the last 6 months theres maybe more pertinent things to be praising rather than supporting a paramilitary group under the pretence of 'well the uvf fought at the somme too'

Lets give they guys who have made a sacrifice, albeit not on the same scale, for the betterment of the reason we are actually at Ibrox. Lets sing about Jig, Alexander, McCoist, Sing 'Fuck the SFA', sing of the blue sea of Ibrox and Barcelona 72. Most of all lets sing about Rangers.

I have no problems with people wanting to commemorate the victims of war. Absolutely no problem with that whatsoever. I'm from a military family. Both Grandads served in WWII (Whisper it but one was even a celtic supporting RC <cr> ) I have cousins serving just now, Uncles that have served and no doubt family who will fight in the future. If I want to pay tribute to their acts of Bravery I go to a war memorial, or speak to other veterans. I don't go to the local bowling club and sing about how my grandad was a pow.

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Before you go forgetting wars take a little time to remember these men.

Rangers players, past or present, who served with distinction during the Great War included:

Dr. James Paterson - Captain - 14th Battalion - London Regiment - London Scottish

Andy Cunningham - 2nd Lieutenant - Gunner - Royal Field Artillery

Jimmy Gordon - Sergeant - Highland Light Infantry

Willie Reid - Gunner - Royal Field Artillery - 52nd Lowland Division

Fred Gray - 2nd Lieutenant - 9th Battalion -Cameronians (Scottish Rifles)

James H. Speirs - 2nd Lieutenant - 7th Battalion - Cameron Highlanders - 15th Scottish Division

Jimmy Galt - 2nd Lieutenant - Argyle and Sutherland Highlanders

John Fleming - Corporal - 8th Battalion - Cameron Highlanders

John Clarke - Rifleman - 16th Battalion - Royal Irish Rifles (36th Ulster Division)

Tommy Muirhead - 2nd Lieutenant - 1st/2nd Battalion - King's Own Scottish Borderers -

David B. Murray - Private - 8th Battalion - Seaforth Highlanders - 15th Scottish Division

Tom Gilchrist - 1st/2nd Battalion - Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders

Finlay Speedie - Private - Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders

Scott Duncan - Signalling Instructor - Royal Field Artillery

Jimmy Low - 2nd Lieutenant - 6th Battalion - Seaforth Highlanders

Tom McDonald - Royal Horse Artillery

John McKeown Bovill - Rifleman - Royal Irish Rifles

Dr. William F. Kivlichan - Lieutenant - Royal Army Medical Corps - attached King's Own African Rifles

Alex Bennett - Cameronians - Scottish Rifles

John Bertram Jackson - Royal Scots Fusiliers

George Turner Livingstone - Royal Army Medical Corps

David Taylor - Royal Field Artillery

Walter Daniel Tull - 2nd Lieutenant - 5th Battalion - Middlesex Regiment

John Rankin - Royal Army Medical Corps

R. Smith - Mechanic - Royal Flying Corps

Sandy Archibald was stationed at the Curragh Camp, Co. Kildare.

Tom Sinclair, James Young, David Brown and Jock Buchanan all served in the British Army - the latter two rising to the rank of Sergeant - although their regiments are unknown.

George Dickson, Jimmy Lister and John McCulloch also served in the Armed Forces during the Great War.

Servicemen who were decorated include:

Jock Buchanan was awarded the Distinguished Conduct Medal

Finlay Speedie and James Speirs the Military Medal

Dr. James Paterson and Fred Gray the Military Cross

and Walter Tull the British War and Victory Medal and the Military Cross

For any who are interested the story of Walter Tull is exceptional and he was certainly an exceptional human being, an amazing man who overcame many prejudices because of the colour of his skin and started wholesale changes in the way the British Army viewed coloured men at the time as the Army viewed 'coloured men of any rank as undesirable' and actual military regulations that stopped "any negro or person of colour" from becoming an officer. Yet Walter Tull was promoted to Sergeant and went on to become the first coloured combat officer in the British Army. A man I am extremely proud to call a Ranger.

Did I miss it or has Willie Thornton MM (Scottish Horse Regiment); played over 200 times for Rangers and scored over 100 goals been left out?

He was was also Assistant Manager under Davie White and Willie Waddell; and Interim Manager for two games.

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Great song !! ,of course the UVF fought the Germans as part of the Ulster Division including those from my family who were in the it during WW1.

The UVF is something every Ulsterman and our friends in the rest of the UK can be very proud of. Their story is unique. They signed the Ulster covenant 100 years ago and pledged to resist Ulster being taken out of the Union by any means necessary. Many signed the Covenant in their own blood. Guns were smuggled in a major military operation on the steamer Clyde Valley into Larne and distributed overnight by car and lorry throughout Ulster to arm the 100,000 strong Ulster Volunteer force.The crisis for Ulster was very real and a bloody civil war was on the cards but the outbreak of WW1 moved the crisis from Ulster to Europe and Germany. In the rest of the UK men were conscripted into the Army, in northern Ireland they didn’t have to go but the UVF volunteered to go and combined with the Royal Irish fusiliers , Royal inniskilling fusiliers and the Royal Irish rifles formed the 36th Ulster division.

On the morning of 1st July 1916 a bugle sounded they went over the top in one of the most heroic charges of the first world war or any war. The British army suffered the most casualties ever in one day right along the front but through the storm of lead and shrapnel that drove ever other brave British division back the Ulstermen of the 36th Division reached the German trenches ,drove the Germans back fighting hand to hand and took the schwaben redoubt (Fort) Military historians all agree that the courage of the men of the 36th that day was outstanding. They had no support on either flank took massive casualties the whole German artillery reigning shells on them but they held until they had no option but to retreat or be wiped out. Almost every home in Ulster was affected as the flower of Ulster’s youth laid down their lives. The Division was relieved on 2 July, having suffered 5104 casualties of who approximately 2069 died. I am proud of those from my family who were volunteers and who gave their lives .

"I am not an Ulsterman but yesterday, the 1st. July 1916, as I followed their amazing attack, I felt that I would rather be an Ulsterman than anything else in the world." Capt W Spender

“The men of Ulster have proved how nobly they fight and die ..." King George V

Where’s it all end ? Lets stop singing Derrys walls , the Sash , I was born Under a Union Jack , Rule Britannia ? Rangers is a British club. Your choice turn your nose up at the UVF and sing what you want but be careful not to disrespect the men of the UVF of long ago.

No Surrender

See this is the crux of the matter. The loyalist want to be offended. If I posted something derogatory about those wo paid the ultimate sacrifice no doubt many would be offended. Nobody has any intention of insulting the dead. Some, however, do want to see them insulted.

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Your words. Not mine.

No where in that post does it say "they sing songs that are damaging to the club".

You and I and all the others who keep posting in these threads are constantly going round in circles. I sing the songs and I love doing it. You don't sing them as is your right and I have absolutely no problem with that and I'm not one for labeling folk hand wringers or apologists just because some don't want to sing them or don't agree with them. In all the posts in all the threads not one person seems to have changed their minds about singing or not singing Loyalist songs so instead of constantly posting the same tired old arguments why do the people who don't want them start becoming pro-active and trying to change things? It only takes one brave soul with the courage of their convictions and the motivation to do so to start a revolution. If someone can give me a good answer as to why they shouldn't take this route other than 'it's not up to me/us' I will be impressed.

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See this is the crux of the matter. The loyalist want to be offended. If I posted something derogatory about those wo paid the ultimate sacrifice no doubt many would be offended. Nobody has any intention of insulting the dead. Some, however, do want to see them insulted.

Your views are insulting to all the fans who are no longer with us and helped build our club and made it so great. They fans sung the songs and that will do for me.

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No where in that post does it say "they sing songs that are damaging to the club".

You and I and all the others who keep posting in these threads are constantly going round in circles. I sing the songs and I love doing it. You don't sing them as is your right and I have absolutely no problem with that and I'm not one for labeling folk hand wringers or apologists just because some don't want to sing them or don't agree with them. In all the posts in all the threads not one person seems to have changed their minds about singing or not singing Loyalist songs so instead of constantly posting the same tired old arguments why do the people who don't want them start becoming pro-active and trying to change things? It only takes one brave soul with the courage of their convictions and the motivation to do so to start a revolution. If someone can give me a good answer as to why they shouldn't take this route other than 'it's not up to me/us' I will be impressed.

Yes it does. If you don't understand what YOU typed then I seriously suggest seeing a doctor.

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Your views are insulting to all the fans who are no longer with us and helped build our club and made it so great. They fans sung the songs and that will do for me.

So you can speak for the dead now?

Do me a favour, gonnae ask my granda why the auld fella snuffed it before I got to meet him.

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Did I miss it or has Willie Thornton MM (Scottish Horse Regiment); played over 200 times for Rangers and scored over 100 goals been left out?

He was was also Assistant Manager under Davie White and Willie Waddell; and Interim Manager for two games.

Well spotted. I lifted parts from different sites to make up the list so forgive me if there are a few omissions. It really should also say the Great Wars not just the Great War implying they all served in WWI. Edited. (tu)

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Fuck off back to LA ya fanny. Had enough of your posts acting offended with everything.

Do I need to explain this AGAIN to you. My location isn't where I'm actually based. In the same way that *manticore* isn't actualy from long ago and far away doh

What else have I been offended by? Any links to my offendedness? Or you just talking shite?

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