Jump to content

Why are we still singing about the UVF


StewGers

Recommended Posts

I think when arrests are made, criminalising people for singing songs is something we should all care about.

And, let's not forget, this law was passed by the SNP - a parcel of rogues who see no hypocrisy in banning the Billy Boys but allowing Flower of Scotland to be played loud and proud at national events?

William Walls was jailed for singing the 'Famine' song with a certain Lord Carloway rejecting the appeal. The self same Lord Carloway who helped in the decision to enforce the transfer ban. A transfer ban the RFFF subsequently funded a QC to challenge in court and (successfully) have the ruling overturned.

Can you see where I'm going with this? When we fight we have a chance and even if we lose we are still heard. If we don't fight at all?

Well...

Lord Carloway also has been pushing for end for the need for corroboration for evidences in the courts.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think when arrests are made, criminalising people for singing songs is something we should all care about.

And, let's not forget, this law was passed by the SNP - a parcel of rogues who see no hypocrisy in banning the Billy Boys but allowing Flower of Scotland to be played loud and proud at national events?

William Walls was jailed for singing the 'Famine' song with a certain Lord Carloway rejecting the appeal. The self same Lord Carloway who helped in the decision to enforce the transfer ban. A transfer ban the RFFF subsequently funded a QC to challenge in court and (successfully) have the ruling overturned.

Can you see where I'm going with this? When we fight we have a chance and even if we lose we are still heard. If we don't fight at all?

Well...

Moses speaks again (tu)

Link to post
Share on other sites

no, because its offensive. Its notthe word that is illegal to say. It is the context in which it is used. Fenian isn't a word that is verboten. When its sole purpose is to cause offence then it becomes illegal.

Yet changing the word to Rebel instead of Fenian would make it legal...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yet changing the word to Rebel instead of Fenian would make it legal...

rebel doesn't refer, at least as strictly, to a particular group as fenian does.

Also when theres plenty bears who use fenian as a synonym for roman catholic then they really don't help themselves.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes freedom of speech is a right which should be protected, I completely agree, however trying to apply freedom of speech as a logical reason to sing about fenians and the UVF is pathetic. Do you feel it is wrong that I can be arrested for walking up to a random black person and shouting 'fucking n***er' in his face? Or should that be ok as it erodes our right speech? Would you be quite happy for IRA protest marches to take place regularly and for them to have public rallies? Free Speech after all. Or that crazy islamist fella with the hook, his preaching of hatred was ok because he was only exercising his right to free speech regardless of the fact he proclaimed that wanted the indigineous population of the country he lived in dead.

I don't mind debating this issue, but if you want to make a comparison between supporters chanting at one another across a stadium and an in-your-face verbal assault then the credibility of your argument is dead in the water.

Where will it stop at the football? The Sash is ok, but the famine song not. No Surrender ok, but TBB not. And on it goes.

I'll bet on this outcome if there is no resistance, no dissent - the war on our rights to sing and voice ideas will continue to shrink our world.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I repeat: I find it amazing how many people on here want to stop Rangers fans singing songs on the basis we are being sectarian. We are THE most policed club on this very subject, yet that doesn’t seem to be enough for some people.

It amazes me how these same people would dare say anything to anyone face to face at the game, but love to do their criticising from behind a key board. I really worry for the fans going forward, we are already experiencing a lack of atmosphere due to fans not knowing what to sing.

Our clubs history is steeped in links to all sorts of protestant organisations, links to these exist in various forms throughout our fan base and are reflected in our club colours, the songs we sing and the organisations where they come from. Some may wish to change this and to a greater extent the club has indeed cleaned up its image and yet remains to be the most policed club. To my mind this reflects the bias shown against this club and the reason our fan base has rallied behind the club once more.

:ulster:

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't mind debating this issue, but if you want to make a comparison between supporters chanting at one another across a stadium and an in-your-face verbal assault then the credibility of your argument is dead in the water.

Where will it stop at the football? The Sash is ok, but the famine song not. No Surrender ok, but TBB not. And on it goes.

I'll bet on this outcome if there is no resistance, no dissent - the war on our rights to sing and voice ideas will continue to shrink our world.

weren't they both covered by the exact same criminal offence pre offensive behaviour at football act? So the courts can make the same association...

TBB would be fine with one word removed 'Fenian' thats all it needs. No Surrender doesn't have that phrase or one which could be deemed disparaging against any particular group. Neither does the Sash. Although if you cant understand that then the credibility of YOUR argument is dead in the water.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to say as a Chelsea fan I've often wondered why Scottish fans bother singing about a conflict in Northern Ireland.

Let the scum sing about murderers and terrorists.

At Chelsea there are songs that are sung in certain pubs before the game that we cant/wont sing inside The Bridge, eg. 10 German Bombers, No Surrender, Chelsea Allouette and I Wanna Be a Chelsea Ranger, Spurs are on their way to Auschwitz etc etc. On away days these songs will be sung on the trains and in the pubs but we rarely sing them in grounds.

Everyone knows the great tradition and history of Rangers. Leave the sectarian songs in the pub beforehand and sing them after the game. For 90 minutes surely its better to support the team on the pitch.

KTBFFH/WATP

Link to post
Share on other sites

The point is to show examples, not just say something like too many others and not back it up with evidence.

I have just backed it up with evidence though. You asked me to show examples where something has been done about the Leeds fans and of fans singing about racism. I have and you are trying to back track (tu)

Link to post
Share on other sites

No Surrender doesn't have that phrase or one which could be deemed disparaging against any particular group. Neither does the Sash. Although if you cant understand that then the credibility of YOUR argument is dead in the water.

Aye, right you are.

The line 'King James and all his rebel scum' is what then? Non disparaging to any particular group? A cuddly declaration of an all inclusive outlook?

Don't you know the words to the songs?

Curiously, The Sash contains this -

'For those brave men who crossed the Boyne have not fought or died in vain

Our Unity, Religion, Laws, and Freedom to maintain'

Apparently - for some at least - they did indeed fight and die in vain if we are prepared to surrender freedoms so willingly.

Link to post
Share on other sites

weren't they both covered by the exact same criminal offence pre offensive behaviour at football act? So the courts can make the same association...

TBB would be fine with one word removed 'Fenian' thats all it needs. No Surrender doesn't have that phrase or one which could be deemed disparaging against any particular group. Neither does the Sash. Although if you cant understand that then the credibility of YOUR argument is dead in the water.

So you do understand it's the word itself that is illegal to say?

"No Surrender" refers specifically to "James and all his rebel men". Most, including me, exchange the word men for the word scum. But because it doesn't have the word fenian it's legal.

Incidentally, both are great songs and should be legal to sing at football grounds and were for decades.

:crabflute:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Aye, right you are.

The line 'King James and all his rebel scum' is what then? Non disparaging to any particular group? A cuddly declaration of an all inclusive outlook?

Don't you know the words to the songs?

Curiously, The Sash contains this -

'For those brave men who crossed the Boyne have not fought or died in vain

Our Unity, Religion, Laws, and Freedom to maintain'

Apparently - for some at least - they did indeed fight and die in vain if we are prepared to surrender freedoms so willingly.

Not really no. Know some of them, not all. My support of Rangers has nothing to do with whatever religious or political beliefs I may hold. King James and all his rebel scum were precisely as the song says. The followers of, by the time of the Battle of the Boyne, deposed King James. So given that they were technically fighting against the establishment (British crown and the Vatican) then rebel is probably the most apt word.

Link to post
Share on other sites

scoff at the tims claim that they are singing about the Original I.R.A. formed from the Irish Volunteers

They did aye. Why no songs about the proud Scottish regiments who did likewise then? Sorry mate, but that argument is as hollow as the Tims arguing that they are singing about the "Old IRA".

And what difference would that make?

The so called old IRA waged an ethnic cleansing campaign against Protestants in Cork.

The old IRA were just as bad if not worse than the Provos. They killed over 2500 innocent people between 1916 until 1925.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have never posted before, but felt i had to after the first couple of away games this season.

I cant get my head round why some fans are still singing about the UVF at Gers games. Dont get me wrong, most fans, including myself have sung these types of songs in the past but there is no place for them anymore.

This is the start of a new adventure for all Gers fans and we should take this opportunity to rid ourselves of certain songs that do us no favours and have nothing to do with Rangers in the 21st Century.

Quite simply, dont complain about what the media and certain journalists write about Rangers fans when some fans refuse to let go the stuff that is now simply irrelevant and you know they will pick up on.

We should be reading about the amazing suppport given to a team in the fourth tier of scottish football and fans who do themselves proud in the way they support their team and not about a small group who refuse to let go of the past.

What would you rather we sang about, maybe the ira for example

Jog on you cunt :cgreen:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Upcoming Events

    • 30 March 2024 15:00 Until 17:00
      0  
      Rangers v Hibernian
      Ibrox Stadium
      Scottish Premiership
×
×
  • Create New...