The Dude 20,026 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 The decision has 100% definitely already been made, it may be that it is made public on the 24th but the panel members are having no further discussion on it and have agreed the outcome which has already been passed to the parties involvedis it a dated judgement? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Carpintero 546 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 The decision has 100% definitely already been made, it may be that it is made public on the 24th but the panel members are having no further discussion on it and have agreed the outcome which has already been passed to the parties involved Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueblueal 2,117 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Why would they delay the release of the result of that's the case? Is it to allow both sides to read over the findings? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear78 96 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 The decision has 100% definitely already been made, it may be that it is made public on the 24th but the panel members are having no further discussion on it and have agreed the outcome which has already been passed to the parties involvedWould maybe explain why whyte was back talking about 'dm and previous board'. I take it he would have been told? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Getstiffed 8,863 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Why would they delay the release of the result of that's the case? Is it to allow both sides to read over the findings?I doubt HRMC are in a hurry to let everyone know how much time and tax payers money they have wasted. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCDBigBear 10,762 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 The decision will be made on the 24th of October.Where has this come from? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCDBigBear 10,762 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I think dm probably knew about it being a future possibility and wanted to pass the club on before it became assured. The other reasons you mention were probably his main reasons but without the btc I don't think dm would have been as desperate as to sell to Whyte. Maybe I'm wrong but to me it looks as if dm wanted out before the btc at any cost and that's why he ignored all warnings about whyte. Guy's a shitebag, should have been big enough to stand up and defend his actions and to point out it was him and not the club if found to be wrong.Murray wanted out years ago, in fact when he handed the reins to John McClelland. If he had reservations about the EBT scheme before HMRC got on the case then why did he continue using it? He could have stopped it at any time. EBTs were not illegal and many companies were using them. Not just us and the tims in Scottish football either. Lloyds put him under a lot of pressure over MIH. He had to get the debt down. He did a £150m debt for equity swap with Llloyds who also wanted their cash back from the RFC branch of MIH and quicker than the old deal agreed with HBOS. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCDBigBear 10,762 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 The decision has 100% definitely already been made, it may be that it is made public on the 24th but the panel members are having no further discussion on it and have agreed the outcome which has already been passed to the parties involvedHow do you know this? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectre 1,663 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 How do you know this?As I said earlier I work closely with one of the panel members and again he hasn't said much to me but it is apparent, or at least appears that, he has given more detal to others. It's out of his hands now though, so as much as he believed the publication of the decision to be due today it's in the hands of administrative staff now Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glesgabear81 24 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I seem to remember the original SPA between murray and whyte made it crystal clear that murray and his "people" would be handling everything about BTC. I suppose thats betweeen murray and D&P now but the point remains that murray made sure he still pulled the strings re the BTC after the initial sale. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear78 96 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Murray wanted out years ago, in fact when he handed the reins to John McClelland. If he had reservations about the EBT scheme before HMRC got on the case then why did he continue using it? He could have stopped it at any time. EBTs were not illegal and many companies were using them. Not just us and the tims in Scottish football either. Lloyds put him under a lot of pressure over MIH. He had to get the debt down. He did a £150m debt for equity swap with Llloyds who also wanted their cash back from the RFC branch of MIH and quicker than the old deal agreed with HBOS.your right bud but I think lloyds must have wanted paid before the btc and if whyte was telling the truth about the sale documents being full of admin and newco patter then it suggests dm sold the club in a less than confident mood about it's future under the old holding company. It all stinks but 18m of debt would not normally force the sale of a club like Rangers to a venture capitalist with a bad reputation? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear78 96 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I seem to remember the original SPA between murray and whyte made it crystal clear that murray and his "people" would be handling everything about BTC. I suppose thats betweeen murray and D&P now but the point remains that murray made sure he still pulled the strings re the BTC after the initial sale.Liability would have been with the old holding company so who ever owned that was going to be left to deal with the problems if the case was lost. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reformation Bear 6,453 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Drawing from previous threads.........It seems the BTC outcome is to be made public on 24/10........and the affected parties already know the outcome (presumably as a courtesy so that they can take legal etc advice and prepare their press statements in time for the public announcement).So there are bound to be non-disclosure agreements binding the parties not to disclose or discuss with those not authorised to know ahead of the public announcement. Wonder how long it will take for key bits of the the outcome to be leaked?I'm hoping that the outcome falls substantially in oldco's favour ie that they complied with the laws in force at the time of the transactions and that if any breaches occurred that they were of a minor or technical nature and not matters of substance. I say this because I strongly suspect that the agreements were drawn up by tax advisers and solicitors who will have had a duty to ensure that the agreements were tax-compliant; that those who were the beneficiaries will themselves have taken independent legal and tax advice for the same tax-compliance reasons; and that the football authorities having had plenty of time to examine and challenge Rangers accounts and did not (it seems to me) have any query at the time of the transactions.Now if there were technical or procedural breaches that are not matters of substance, then I still suspect that the rampant anti-Rangers fever that thas been whipped this year will doubtless produce reactions way out of proportion. So unless it is a resounding unequivocal finding in oldco's favour I would expect more abuse directed at Rangers which in turn hardens attitudes all round. At least uncertainty will be ended, the outcome will be known and we can examine it and decide what reaction to give as Rangers fans. Then gird the loins for the next assault in the form of the SPL mercenary Nimmo and his title-stripping band of lawyers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willger 14 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 As I said earlier I work closely with one of the panel members and again he hasn't said much to me but it is apparent, or at least appears that, he has given more detal to others. It's out of his hands now though, so as much as he believed the publication of the decision to be due today it's in the hands of administrative staff nowIf he's been giving out information to others can you not ask them what's been said ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear78 96 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I thought it comes down to whether or not the judges believe the ebts were loans. With the involvement of lawyers you would think the paper work would be right enough. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Curtain 60 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Twitter saying the result of the case is out? Can't be right, how would that come out on a Friday night? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Curtain 60 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Some Bears om twitter saying we have won the tax case! Does that make a difference now anyway? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Curtain 60 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Dhims are now saying we lost it, this sounds like shite, sorry folks, false alarm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willger 14 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 i wouldnt be surprised if this thread is the source of their hysteria. They don't seem to grasp that a negative outcome has no bearing on us at all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritchieshearercaldow 22,002 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 One things for sure, no matter win loose or draw the shit and the show will go on....This is Scotland Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
54andcounting 627 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Can't win or lose, If we win they will say we got off with it, if we lose any part of it, they will call us everything under the sun, no matter what the result! I know my team are not cheats and have won everything fair and square on the park. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCDBigBear 10,762 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Drawing from previous threads.........It seems the BTC outcome is to be made public on 24/10........and the affected parties already know the outcome (presumably as a courtesy so that they can take legal etc advice and prepare their press statements in time for the public announcement).So there are bound to be non-disclosure agreements binding the parties not to disclose or discuss with those not authorised to know ahead of the public announcement. Wonder how long it will take for key bits of the the outcome to be leaked?I'm hoping that the outcome falls substantially in oldco's favour ie that they complied with the laws in force at the time of the transactions and that if any breaches occurred that they were of a minor or technical nature and not matters of substance. I say this because I strongly suspect that the agreements were drawn up by tax advisers and solicitors who will have had a duty to ensure that the agreements were tax-compliant; that those who were the beneficiaries will themselves have taken independent legal and tax advice for the same tax-compliance reasons; and that the football authorities having had plenty of time to examine and challenge Rangers accounts and did not (it seems to me) have any query at the time of the transactions.Now if there were technical or procedural breaches that are not matters of substance, then I still suspect that the rampant anti-Rangers fever that thas been whipped this year will doubtless produce reactions way out of proportion. So unless it is a resounding unequivocal finding in oldco's favour I would expect more abuse directed at Rangers which in turn hardens attitudes all round. At least uncertainty will be ended, the outcome will be known and we can examine it and decide what reaction to give as Rangers fans. Then gird the loins for the next assault in the form of the SPL mercenary Nimmo and his title-stripping band of lawyers.Not getting at you but you appear to be basing your post on other posters' rumours. Where did 24 Oct come from ? If I was in charge of the release of such private information, someone's job would be out the window if there was early disclosure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermopylae 15,286 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I thought it comes down to whether or not the judges believe the ebts were loans. With the involvement of lawyers you would think the paper work would be right enough.This is what gets me every players representative must have looked at the EBTs and ok'ed them Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCDBigBear 10,762 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Far too many rumours without any foundation about the outcome of the BTC. If my best pal was involved in the BTC and I knew he was obliged to stay quiet I wouldn't ask him. No matter how much I really wanted to know. I wouldn't jeopardise his career just to find out a few hours or days before everyone else. I simply don't believe that anyone on here or any other site has knowledge of the outcome. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearsrus 12 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I really do believe the old holding company will "win" the BTCMonday's revelations will prove that otherwise!! And tbh, i'll be very surprised if many people wish to invest in us ever gain after Monday,it's coming, beleive me it's coming, Green will be heading for the hills in the not too distant future. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.