Vanguard Bears - just who are they?

[gogzy 31,195]

If you know any, I am sure they would speak up for you mate

I honestly don't know if anyone i know IRL is currently a member of the site. I don't get out much

I've always wanted to join VB because I love the work they do. Whilst I personally don't take much to do with the PUL side of things ( although i am from a very staunch family), The rest of the work you do interests me a great deal.

I don't advocate leaving our traditions and culture behind us. Pretty much my only problem with VB is the way some of it's members come on here just to fight with people that don't agree with them.

Anyway i'm pretty stoned and just rambling now. Keep up the good work

[Gaz92 966]

You do like to make people repeat themselves dont you?

Do you have to "like" something or someone to defend it?

Does someone have to like you for you to defend them?

There are simple cases of right and wrong. Perhaps you dont understand some of the "attacks", therefore dont realise you are being stuck up for?

I thought last night, and, it may have been the late hour, that you were fairly reasonable, with a differing viewpoint, yet, posts like this one here make me consider you may well just be at it, in a more subtle way than some others. All your questions were answered, truthfully, you just dont like the answers

I'd say I've been made to repeat myself by those who haven't read the thread and challenged me on points that I've already explained further down.

I most certainly won't apologise about saying that I believe some are isolated by the VB, as I sitting here right now, feel as if I am. Others posting in this thread feel as if we are, and I know many others out there who would be as well. The walls have been built up by the VB, and they clearly have no plans of lowering them to allow us to see how we are being stuck up for. You are sticking up for the club, yes,but there is very little reason given as to why the VB can't be more inclusive. Hell, I think if they were, they could could be seen as one of the main supporters groups out there as I think they've done some excellent work at setting a foundation.

[OLE SUPER WILBERT 2,475]

I'll be honest Ryan.......I am struggling.

Which bit are you struggling with?

[outlaw69uk 123]

Allowing your self to be defined by how others see you (as per your starting statmement) is simply to allow allow others to think for you.

Do we need to be defined by how others perceive us ? Why not enjoy the sport and make your own mind up on religion and politics based on some thought on what is best and not becuase you think you should have certain views because someone else who supports a different team has a different view and you MUST take the opposite view.

It is not simply enough that we are a great football team - with a great sporting history?

Your use of the word defined is interesting here, and irrelevant, as thats not the case. What you are discussing is how others define us, which is the crux of the matter. YOU have completely different views, yet, your club is under attack, as are you, as are all of us, regardless of whether you agree or not, its simply happening. Quite clearly, someone elses politics or religious views dont matter, in relation to anything VB does. A bear is a bear. The people going on more and more about politics/religion, are the likes of yourself. Have said many times, those who are anti-something are generally louder and feel the need to bring it up all the time.

For membership, as Zzed said above, perhaps thats a different story,and rightly so. every group/club can have its own membership criteria.

[theiconicman 2,991]

That will never happen in my opinion, and I obviously hope it doesn't.

Take our support for example. The majority of our songbook is made up of traditional PUL ballads, ditties and add ons. Our flags and banners are mainly PUL minded. Our prematch entertainment even has a PUL theme.

That's not me touching on other links with Ibrox itself, which are PUL related.

There is no doubting that our traditions are alive and kicking with Ibrox.

Agreed. But there is also a sizeable minority (if not actual majority) that just don't care for the political and religious aspect other than the fact our club is suffering because of it. That seems to annoy VB people.

While the OP is trying hard to fight against it, VB continually come across as PUL is the only 'true' fan and others are simply 'not getting it'.

When in actual fact, most get it but just don't want it. However, if you are from a PUL background I can see how this apathy would seem like an attack from within.

[Fastrax 274]

I'll be honest, I think its very evident that a lot of our fans believe we are attacked because we support Rangers. Sorry but you're wrong, we are attacked because of who we are, where we have come from and the beliefs that we hold dear. Rangers as a club are at the forefront of calculated attack from our enemies, ask yourself why.

If you don't know the answer, put down your sword and step away from your shield because you are not cut out for the fight.

[Fastrax 274]

I'll be honest, I think its very evident that a lot of our fans believe we are attacked because we support Rangers. Sorry but you're wrong, we are attacked because of who we are, where we have come from and the beliefs that we hold dear. Rangers as a club are at the forefront of calculated attack from our enemies, ask yourself why.

If you don't know the answer, put down your sword and step away from your shield because you are not cut out for the fight.

[outlaw69uk 123]

Well said. I've told no fan at some point that they need to leave behind their political or religious views, but as a Rangers support we can strive to be viewed as broader than simply a Protestant Unionist club.

Thats quite simple, get on a bus or a train, and leave Glasgow. Seriously. You know why? Because all the nonsense that happens, happens there, and in Scotland. This was the same when people were wittering on about singing bad songs. Celtic fans, and those who wanted to be loved by everyone, were up in arms (despite the realities of it all), while the rest of Britain and the world.... didnt care, didnt notice etc etc.

Goldfish bowl. Once you leave it, you get a far better take on things

[theiconicman 2,991]

I'll be honest, I think its very evident that a lot of our fans believe we are attacked because we support Rangers. Sorry but you're wrong, we are attacked because of who we are, where we have come from and the beliefs that we hold dear. Rangers as a club are at the forefront of calculated attack from our enemies, ask yourself why.

If you don't know the answer, put down your sword and step away from your shield because you are not cut out for the fight.

Insurrection is all well and good. I'll focus on the 3rd division title thanks.

[Gaz92 966]

I'll be honest, I think its very evident that a lot of our fans believe we are attacked because we support Rangers. Sorry but you're wrong, we are attacked because of who we are, where we have come from and the beliefs that we hold dear. Rangers as a club are at the forefront of calculated attack from our enemies, ask yourself why.

If you don't know the answer, put down your sword and step away from your shield because you are not cut out for the fight.

You're not really getting much, are you?

I've never argued that we've not been challenged and put down due to some of the history and culture (for me, I do feel it's over-stated at times, but most will disagree) as a club. I've argued there is no need to "fight fire with fire",

[Fastrax 274]

Insurrection is all well and good. I'll focus on the 3rd division title thanks.

No objection from me

[outlaw69uk 123]

I'd say I've been made to repeat myself by those who haven't read the thread and challenged me on points that I've already explained further down.

I most certainly won't apologise about saying that I believe some are isolated by the VB, as I sitting here right now, feel as if I am. Others posting in this thread feel as if we are, and I know many others out there who would be as well. The walls have been built up by the VB, and they clearly have no plans of lowering them to allow us to see how we are being stuck up for. You are sticking up for the club, yes,but there is very little reason given as to why the VB can't be more inclusive. Hell, I think if they were, they could could be seen as one of the main supporters groups out there as I think they've done some excellent work at setting a foundation.

Isolated? Yet you have no interest in joining? That doesnt really make sense.

Highlighted part, why cant a private members group be more inclusive? Again, it sounds a bit wrong doesnt it? I told you when I first replied to you, its simple, really simple. Anyone who actually goes to a game, has a really good chance of knowing a member, and, if they are decent, they would vouch for them. Hey presto, included! its not rocket science. If someone doesnt know a member, simple, drop a line to admin saying you are interested in becoming a member (Gogzy?), and, meet up with them for a pint pre game? That shouldnt really be a hard thing to do should it? Its as inclusive as the crowd at Ibrox

Hardly a secret society that all are forbidden from. The big difference, is once you have met someone, you can tell a lot more about them, you can translate the posts they make based on their personality.

[YoungCitizen 79]

Agreed. But there is also a sizeable minority (if not actual majority) that just don't care for the political and religious aspect other than the fact our club is suffering because of it. That seems to annoy VB people.

While the OP is trying hard to fight against it, VB continually come across as PUL is the only 'true' fan and others are simply 'not getting it'.

When in actual fact, most get it but just don't want it. However, if you are from a PUL background I can see how this apathy would seem like an attack from within.

I've seen many - and I include my best friend in this - who says they want nothing to do with the political side of things when it comes to football, yet he's the one belting out battle hymns come Saturday afternoon. And there are thousands like him. You can't have it both ways. You're either a PUL member, one with leanings or not. None of this, I don't want anything to do with it, hypocritical shite.

This is not aimed at yourself, more so those who say they're against politics, but clearly sympathise with the cause.

Do I believe the majority of fans have a PUL leanings? Yes, I believe it is evident come match days.

[Gaz92 966]

Thats quite simple, get on a bus or a train, and leave Glasgow. Seriously. You know why? Because all the nonsense that happens, happens there, and in Scotland. This was the same when people were wittering on about singing bad songs. Celtic fans, and those who wanted to be loved by everyone, were up in arms (despite the realities of it all), while the rest of Britain and the world.... didnt care, didnt notice etc etc.

Goldfish bowl. Once you leave it, you get a far better take on things

What do you believe we are viewed as elsewhere then as a club? I see you don't live in Glasgow yourself, but if you had to ask someone, give me a few words to describe Rangers Football Club, what do you think they'd say then?

[outlaw69uk 123]

Agreed. But there is also a sizeable minority (if not actual majority) that just don't care for the political and religious aspect other than the fact our club is suffering because of it. That seems to annoy VB people.

While the OP is trying hard to fight against it, VB continually come across as PUL is the only 'true' fan and others are simply 'not getting it'.

When in actual fact, most get it but just don't want it. However, if you are from a PUL background I can see how this apathy would seem like an attack from within.

How/Why is the club suffering from the political/religious aspect? In your opinion. Not a trick question.

Apathy is a good word, and frustrating, however, hardly an attack from within.

This most dont want it thing? Care to elaborate?

[Gaz92 966]

I've seen many - and I include my best friend in this - who says they want nothing to do with the political side of things when it comes to football, yet he's the one belting out battle hymns come Saturday afternoon. And there are thousands like him. You can't have it both ways. You're either a PUL member, one with leanings or not. None of this, I don't want anything to do with it, hypocritical shite.

This is not aimed at yourself, more so those who say they're against politics, but clearly sympathise with the cause.

Do I believe the majority of fans have a PUL leanings? Yes, I believe it is evident come match days.

We're really just going round in circles in relation to it. The main reason I wouldn't want to join it is because I see it as an exclusive group, and I wouldn't join any group that would exclude fellow Bears' from taking a role in the group - simple as that, and that would be the same if it was a Rangers group that didn't allow members with Loyalist views to join. Appealing to a certain mould of fan doesn't work for me, and I don't believe it's the way to move forward with Rangers.

Edit: Quoted the wrong post, was meant to be oulaw's.

[Fastrax 274]

You're not really getting much, are you?

I've never argued that we've not been challenged and put down due to some of the history and culture (for me, I do feel it's over-stated at times, but most will disagree) as a club. I've argued there is no need to "fight fire with fire",

What will we fight it with? Apologies and sympathy?

[gogzy 31,195]

Isolated? Yet you have no interest in joining? That doesnt really make sense.

Highlighted part, why cant a private members group be more inclusive? Again, it sounds a bit wrong doesnt it? I told you when I first replied to you, its simple, really simple. Anyone who actually goes to a game, has a really good chance of knowing a member, and, if they are decent, they would vouch for them. Hey presto, included! its not rocket science. If someone doesnt know a member, simple, drop a line to admin saying you are interested in becoming a member (Gogzy?), and, meet up with them for a pint pre game? That shouldnt really be a hard thing to do should it? Its as inclusive as the crowd at Ibrox

Hardly a secret society that all are forbidden from. The big difference, is once you have met someone, you can tell a lot more about them, you can translate the posts they make based on their personality.

When I get to a game ( probably after xmas is out the road) I'll do just that mate....i rarley drink anymore but i could pop in and have a wee irn bru

The only members on RM that I know IRL are kirkbroadband, jackoo and rabbie1980, that i'm aware of anyway, TBH i probably do know at least one as i have a lot of Rangers supporting friends, I just havent spoken to them IRL about internet forums

[outlaw69uk 123]

You're not really getting much, are you?

I've never argued that we've not been challenged and put down due to some of the history and culture (for me, I do feel it's over-stated at times, but most will disagree) as a club. I've argued there is no need to "fight fire with fire",

Under Murray, the club would probably have agreed with that stance, in the name of dignified silence, that got us to the place we are now. I am delighted that the current custodians dont agree with you

[terry739 267]

Excellent Post!! Well done VB..keep up the good work!

[Gaz92 966]

What will we fight it with? Apologies and sympathy?

I've already quoted The Rangers Standard as an excellent weapon. Many excellent articles defending the club and the fans against the likes of Tomo, Phil, the BBC and the rest of the list. There are some brilliant articles on it, with very little alluding to politics or religion. With some work and some tweaks, and with a bit more publicity, I think The Rangers Standard is a brilliant platform to build the defence of our club on.

[Gaz92 966]

Under Murray, the club would probably have agreed with that stance, in the name of dignified silence, that got us to the place we are now. I am delighted that the current custodians dont agree with you

Yawn.

Where have I spoken about a "dignified silence"?

[bluenosebrad 452]

Personally i dont worry about political/religion when im at a game, but living in Gourock/Greenock area if ppl know you are Gers fan you are automactically tagged with your an Orange B and all the other shite that comes with being a fan of this great club, so i suppose in a way politics and religion is tagged to our club regardless if we deny it, it does to an extent come hand in hand.

[minstral 5,375]

This post annoys me, I am unfortunatley too stoned to articluate my reasons why very well but it smacks of elitism.

It is nothing to do with elitism, that is what we have always been about, and i am much older than most. In my younger days that is the way we were brought up, to support our team Culture and Traditions, and nothing has changed.

[outlaw69uk 123]

What do you believe we are viewed as elsewhere then as a club? I see you don't live in Glasgow yourself, but if you had to ask someone, give me a few words to describe Rangers Football Club, what do you think they'd say then?

What do you believe we are viewed as elsewhere then as a club? I see you don't live in Glasgow yourself, but if you had to ask someone, give me a few words to describe Rangers Football Club, what do you think they'd say then?

Correct, I dont anymore, although I still come back to visit

Prior to the beginning of the crap, and removal of TBB and all that nonsense, we were viewed as a massive club (which one is it, the Protestant one? often asked, and followed by an "ah ok" then ignored from then on), with one of the most amazing vocal crowds ever, creating a fantastic atmosphere.

Compared to up there, where it was "akin to a Nuremberg rally", "sectarian bile" etc etc

Thats your difference. Certain people actively look to be offended, and, for too long, we apologised for it