KaiserJon 12,798 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 And then says including Pele and Maradona. Just heard this. Anyone else miss the World Cups both players have won-regarded as the pinnacle of achievement. I like Messi, don't get me wrong, but saying he is in a different class when he has not won the big one with the national team. He has a chance come the next WC and he is still young. JaimeD or whatever your a name is don't tell me that on the one hand a team has a 'player' and good players who were underrated regards Maradona, he drove that side, even me and you could do the nuts and bolts and he would have delivered with the way he was then. Don't George Best or Puskas this thread!!!!!!!!!!!Or in our case many players both Scottish and Rangers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKingObv 10,872 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Has anyone else scored 90 goals in a calendar year? Didn't think so.Nobody has done what he's done, with regard to that.Whether or not he's better than them is another debate entirely, and a fucking boring one as well.And from "Jamie D..." onwards it's like you've had an aneurysm or something Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denim Bucket 2 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 By putting it like that Xavi , Iniesta , Puyol , Piqué , Pedro and Valdez are better than Messi because they've had international success? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSuedeSambas 56,540 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 International football is over rated.I don't think winning the World Cup is anywhere near as glamorous as it once was. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronniemca 479 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 george best was the worlds no1 player in the late 60s .what fuckin chance did he have of winning a world cup medal ffs Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caseyjones 3,009 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 What a spurious argument! Di Stefano, Puskas, Best, Cruyff.....none of them have a World Cup win in their locker, despite being outstanding talents. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmiston Drive 3,846 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Plenty of people have gone all Mr Huffy when they don't get their own way..................it's my ball and you have to let me have it sort of thing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubyred90 118 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Messi is a drugs cheat ? no?By putting it like that Xavi , Iniesta , Puyol , Piqué , Pedro and Valdez are better than Messi because they've had international success?Iniesta IS the best player in the world , yes . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott-RFC 308 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Whenever someone hits out with Messi can't be the best ever because he hasn't won a World Cup, I tend to note for future reference that their opinion is worth fuck all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
papaguy51 941 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 To say you can't be considered with the best because you don't have an international award is, quite simply, ridiculous.By that argument, those who made up the Greek team that won the Europeans in Portugal must be superior... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
superally07 387 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 To say you can't be considered with the best because you don't have an international award is, quite simply, ridiculous.By that argument, those who made up the Greek team that won the Europeans in Portugal must be superior...Some do beleive that Samaras is better than Messi .... lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senna 735 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 OP's logic = Stephane Guivarch > Lionel Messi. Just think about what you've said. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithgersbear 3,225 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 International football is over rated.I don't think winning the World Cup is anywhere near as glamorous as it once was.Yeah, right. The world cup is the ultimate in football. I'd rather be Fabio Grosso taking that penalty than being Messi and that is being honest. What a feeling that would be. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSuedeSambas 56,540 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Yeah, right. The world cup is the ultimate in football. I'd rather be Fabio Grosso taking that penalty than being Messi and that is being honest. What a feeling that would be.Of course it would be an amazing feeling.I've just never been a big fan of international football and I don't think the World Cup has the same appeal that it did thirty or forty years ago.I just think that with three European Cups under his belt before 25 years old, I don't think Messi "needs" a World Cup under his belt before he can be compared with the best of all time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Godfather 75,871 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Lifting the World Cup for your country still has to be considered the pinacle of a footballers career.I doubt any other trophy could compete with that tbh. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSuedeSambas 56,540 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Lifting the World Cup for your country still has to be considered the pinacle of a footballers career.I doubt any other trophy could compete with that tbh.I don't doubt that, but personally speaking I just don't feel that same appeal so I can't relate to it at all.I imagine Messi would love to do it, but I don't think winning a world cup is going to be a factor in determining if he is remembered as an all time great or not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Godfather 75,871 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I don't doubt that, but personally speaking I just don't feel that same appeal so I can't relate to it at all.I imagine Messi would love to do it, but I don't think winning a world cup is going to be a factor in determining if he is remembered as an all time great or not.For some the international tournaments have lost their appeal and I tend to agree having witnessed a good few of them but for a player I'd have thought they are still top of the pile. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdunsmb 43 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 The World Cup is not the 'big one' any more. Okay, it is in that it means more to people and is a bigger spectacle.But not in terms of footballing standard - club football is a much higher standard and has been for years. Either way, it shouldn't matter. We are talking about a footballing individual. More and more people are coming round to the notion that Messi is the best ever - and given the fact that he is only 25, I think it will be undeniable by the time his career is over. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKingObv 10,872 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Champions League football is of a higher standard than the World Cup, anyway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdunsmb 43 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 For some the international tournaments have lost their appeal and I tend to agree having witnessed a good few of them but for a player I'd have thought they are still top of the pile.But we are not talking about how it makes the players feel. Nobody is disputing the World Cup doesn't mean the most.People are disputing the fact that you cannot be the best player ever until you have won the World Cup.For me, Messi has proven he is the best at a higher standard of football than the World Cup. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky_ 893 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 The world cup is the greatest prize in football, yes, but it doesn't define a players ability.sometimes people forget football is a team game. It's nearly impossible to remove that as a factor when judging a player solely upon ability. If you attempt to do it though, dribblers will always likely to come to forefront of your assessments because there's nothing more beautiful that skipping past 3 or 4 players with the ball looking like it's glued to your feet. Personally, i beleive Ronaldo (brazil) to be the greatest player ever, who just nicks in front of Maradonna. Messi is in the company. George Best is too, despite having no success internationally. If you can see beyond the dribbling ability there's a fair arguement to be made for Xavi, Iniesa, Cristiano Ronaldo & Zinedine Zidane, maybe even Rivaldo & Ronaldinho in recent times for the genius they have brought to their teams. All genius in their own right, all unique in their own right.As for Messi, imo, he gets too much plaudits for what should be given to Barcelona. Most his goals these days seem to be taps, or 1 touch and finish inside the box - granted he works the ball beautifully sets up alot, but to me, it seems his younger, more raw days were about his true genius of taking the ball 60 yards jinking past 3 or 4 and sticking it over the keeper. Maybe he just gets doubled up on too much now.But like i said, football is a team game, but we seem to focus more on individuals rather than praising teams. Barcelona are without a doubt the greatest team (club or international) to have graced the game. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaiserJon 12,798 Posted December 17, 2012 Author Share Posted December 17, 2012 Have come on here just to add I was ten sheets to the wind when posting. Anyway was just some people talking about the lack of a WC for Messi and my translation of that point was badly put in my alcohol induced state. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithgersbear 3,225 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 International football is actually harder than club football in many ways. You don't train all year round and you can't sign players. So when Maradona was winning the world cup, he did it because he played a huge part in it by playing fantastically well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Godfather 75,871 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 But we are not talking about how it makes the players feel. Nobody is disputing the World Cup doesn't mean the most.People are disputing the fact that you cannot be the best player ever until you have won the World Cup.For me, Messi has proven he is the best at a higher standard of football than the World Cup."People are disputing the fact that you cannot be the best player ever until you have won the World Cup."Who is claiming this? 9 out of 10 of people I talk to regarding this do not bring up the fact he's never won it when talking about his ability as the best ever.Some people who hold the old greats dear and have a bitterness about the current way football has been or/is run like to bring these things up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan_1 1,136 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 For me he's the greatest of all-time, and tbh I'm bored of people saying he's not because he's not won a World Cup. So if Messi played for someone like Scotland and had absolutely no hope of ever winning the World Cup but still does what he does week-in-week out at club level, he could never be considered the best? No, I don't think so.As has been said, the Champions League is as of a higher level than the World Cup these days anyway and Messi has three already. There's no better player on the planet than Lionel Messi and there never has been Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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