The Godfather 75,985 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Saw this from an Arsenal fan debating about the real quality of Pele.He got quite a few pelters from what I saw but how highly do you all rate the great man?"Being too young to have ever seen him in action, I've had to go off what i've been told and heard about him in regards to him being the greatest ever. I know he's most famous for winning 3 world cups, and for scoring over 1000 goals in his career, which by itself does make it sound like he is head and shoulders above anyone else to ever play the game.However I was reading about him last week and there are a lot of people who feel his talent has been greatly exaggerated, based on a few things.Firstly his goal scoring record, which apparantley stands at 1280 career goals. However, nearly 500 of these goals were in "unofficial or friendly matches", including matches against factory teams and local teams which would have been greatly inferior to Santos's quality level. If you remove these friendly matches, his goal total at Santos drops from 1088 to 643.Secondly, despite winning three world cup medals, he did not play a major role in all of them. In his 1962 World Cup Win, he only played in two group stage games before picking up an injury, and did not play in the rest of the tournament. In addition, the team that won the 1970 world cup is often referred to as one of the greatest teams of all time, and while Pele was no doubt a massive component of that, he certainly wasn't the sole reason they won the world cup, as opposed to other world cup winning teams that have definitely relied on one star.Thirdly, there wasn't a proper Brazilian national league until the 70's, and the majority of Pele's appearances and goals came in games in the Sao Paulo state league. I suppose our equivilent would be having a league for London based teams, while there would be some other strong teams, there would also be some minor shitty teams.Fourthly, the fact that he never played in Europe in a more competitive league. Do you think if he'd been playing in Europe he would have scored anywhere near the amount of goals he has? For all their brilliance, Ronaldo has only scored 292 goals in his career, while Messi has only scored 288. Each of these totals are less than half of Pele's total for Santos, although both still have a lot of years left in them.In conclusion, i'm not trying to convince people one way or the other, really the point of this topic was to see other peoples opinion's on him, because at the same time the articles i've read about him could have been extremely biased the other way and if there's people that actually watched him that can testify to his brilliance, then I may be completely wrong.If you do think he is overrated, who would you say is the best player of all time? Do you think Messi or Ronaldo have the potential to ever be called the greatest ever?" Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmiston Drive 3,846 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Had the pleasure of seeing Pele play against Scotland at Hampden prior to Brazil being kicked to pieces in the World Cup 66.......that wee keech Bremner kick him all over the place, Portugal and a few other teams must have had scouts at Hampden that day. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingWilBEARy 4,319 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 "Being too young to have ever seen him in action...''I stopped reading there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmiston Drive 3,846 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 "Being too young to have ever seen him in action...''I stopped reading there.Wise beyond your years then Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caseyjones 3,009 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 "The Godfather"I stopped reading there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwhiteandblue 3,330 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I have seen a lot of videos of Pele. I have never seen any player with the ability to nutmeg an opponant so easily. His close control and speed was unreal. For me, the best ever. Can Messi or Ronaldo become better? Maybe Messi, but only maybe. I think Zidane was better than Ronaldo will ever be. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Godfather 75,985 Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 "The Godfather"I stopped reading there.Will try to get it moved to BD then we can all be free from the second hand recycled jokes you offer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Godfather 75,985 Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 Awaits it wasn't a joke... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Godfather 75,985 Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 I have seen a lot of videos of Pele. I have never seen any player with the ability to nutmeg an opponant so easily. His close control and speed was unreal. For me, the best ever. Can Messi or Ronaldo become better? Maybe Messi, but only maybe. I think Zidane was better than Ronaldo will ever be.To be fair to Ronaldo in comparison with Zidane he has around 5 or 6 years to compete at the top so maybe it will be easier to compare when he's finished. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmiston Drive 3,846 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Will try to get it moved to BD then we can all be free from the second hand recycled jokes you offer. Post of the year I would have be ever so proud of that one :matron: Casey just jesting....btw the way got admin to check my PMs and everything is working ok .........and aksed them to look to see if there's an IT problem between our posting ability You know I'm just jesting Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swanseabear 25 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I've watched him on youtube, seems a good spokesman Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmiston Drive 3,846 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 One has to notice the difference with the ball used back then as against the ones used now....................Remember Piet Huistra telling me about the shock he got with the Mitre ball that was used when he came here...............said it was a lot heavier than anything he had played with......indeed it was heavier than the ones used in the English leagues....one of Sounesses biggest gripes with the sfa........and for a while he used the English version until the finally twigged Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek1872 548 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 He is no Balotelli. He set up a goal by slide tackling didn't you know? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Godfather 75,985 Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 Can watch all the Pele videos we want but unless we witnessed him on a regular occasion like we have with others then I don't think we can really know just how good he was.The older bears will have a better idea. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caseyjones 3,009 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Will try to get it moved to BD then we can all be free from the second hand recycled jokes you offer.Touché, but it was a homage to TWB's comic genius. You tried similar, but chose to ape someone who is as funny as child Leukaemia. Back to the point in hand.....Pele's goalscoring figures are what they are, but he was so much more than that. He became a hero with the Brazilian public for the 1958 WC win, after many years of failure and carried on from there.You also only need to look at how successful Santos were during his heyday, to see how influential he was on the club scene. The 'he didn't play in Europe' argument can be countered by the fact that most South Americans didn't, hence the strength of the Copa Libertadores in those years.A genius of a player who wasn't afraid to try things that hadn't been seen before. I don't think that anyone can underestimate his standing in the game. This is my favourite piece of footballing footage ever: Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick1200 2,990 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Of course he is, he has never played on a rainy Wednesday night in Stoke. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moody Blue Legend 63,568 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Maradona for me. Pele was obviously a special player, going by the video clips and testimonials, but having watched Maradona through his career, he is THE man imo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBOO72 4,829 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Haven't seen him play much or watched much footage of him but I know he's not as good as messi . Wee Leo is the best .................ever . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopter 310 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Didn't he have erectile problems as well?Can't imagine Besty banging in a hat-trick, heading out to a party then having to thumb it in to Miss World (even with a bevy in him) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandro420 398 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek1872 548 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Haven't seen him play much or watched much footage of him but I know he's not as good as messi . Wee Leo is the best .................ever .This whole post Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricksen_da_best 2,034 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Ive only ever seen videos of football teams back in the day. And the standard off play is absolute dreadful. No wonder the cunts scored so many goals. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harlands plater 17,190 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 The man was a genius. He thought of trying things that would never occur to others - the dummy in the video posted, Shooting from halfway. That downward header. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jela 21,765 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I have seen a lot of videos of Pele. I have never seen any player with the ability to nutmeg an opponant so easily. His close control and speed was unreal. For me, the best ever. Can Messi or Ronaldo become better ?This is one of the daftest posts I've ever read. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jela 21,765 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Haven't seen him play much or watched much footage of him but I know he's not as good as messi . Wee Leo is the best .................ever .Reading this and the first thing that came to mind was the tims talking about McGeady when he was there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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