Atlantic League: Why is it so hard to push through!?

[Ricky_ 893]

It's been spoke about for some time, but it seems as though that changes are happening across Europe.

It looks as though that Russia are about to merge with the Ukraine to create a new league in an effort to create a bigger and better product. The penny is finally dropping that for the most part, the domestic leagues in Europe outside of England/Wales, France, Spain, Germany & Italy are simply too small to compete. That leaves a hell of alot of countries consistantly trailing these leagues, and in truth, given the capitalist nature of this sport, the gap will only continue to widen as it has exponentially over the last 10 years.

European countries need to merge to create a league in which it's big fish can escape the small ponds, leaving the small pond to populated with suitable fish - allowing those fish thrive without the sharks, and the sharks to thrive in a tank with other sharks .

That to me spells out an Atlantic league where clubs with stadiums of around roughly of 30k+ should be formed. This means the clubs are supported well enough and established enough to bring the audience to the product.

The countries i'd include would e: Scotland, Portugal, Holland, Belgium, & a few of the giants stuck with the minnows in Scandinavia

Geographically that doesn't cover a huge area, infact alot smaller than that of european competition. Ourselves, Holland & Belgium would be rather central, with the greatest distance being Portugal to Norway/Sweden, which ofcourse is nowhere near the sort of distance that would need to be travelled in a European tie against a Russian or Turkish side.

So which clubs should be invited?

Rangers, SCO, 51,082

(i'd prefer the tims weren't invited & left to rot in their filthy mire, but they probably would be, so i'll include them reluctantly for now)

C*ltic, SCO, 60,000

AIK, SWE, 54,392

Rosenborg, NOR, 21,850

FC Copenhagen, DEN, 42,385

Brondby, DEN, 26,180

Ajax, NED, 52,960

PSV, NED, 35,119

Twente, NED, 30,014

Feyenoord, NED, 51,777

Vitesse, NED, 28,278

Anderlecht, BELG, 26,361

Club Brugge, BELG, 29,042

Standard Liege, BELG, 29,388

Genk, BELG, 24,604

Porto, PTG, 50,399

Benfica, PTG, 65,647

Braga, PTG, 30,268

Sporting Lisbon, PTG, 50,466

Academica, PTG, 30,075

That makes 20 teams.

There probably would be a slight gulf between the top clubs with 50k+ capacity like ourselves and Ajax against the slightly smaller clubs like Vitesse, but overall it be a pretty open, hard fought & close league.

Given that it's a new set-up, it could also adopt a more socialist model than we're used to seeing to keep the competition even and teams roughly on an even keel. A straight cut of TV coverage & money, and perhaps a 70/30 gate split in favor of the home team on all games. Also an even cut of the leagues sponsorships, it would attract sponsorships from all over Europe given the exposure, so be passing on an equal cut to all the teams could help emulate the riches of leagues such as the German or English set-up.

There would be the peace of mind for club owners that there would never be any relegation and that with a more socialist set-up it's unlikely to be any major financial gulf between teams, so every season brings it's own chances to win the league. 20 Teams could pose an issue competing in cups, but the cup set-up could be 4 groups of 5, randomly drawn, with the top 2 going through to form a knock-out last 8.

The clubs could also apply to participate in their countries domestic cup - for example, the Scottish or League cup for us - if our domestic FA's were interested in doing so.

A few figures:

The teams above cover 7 countries in western Europe, those countries have a combined population of 63.32 million.

The combined capactiy of the stadiums of the 20 teams above is 790,284 with an average stadium capactiy of 40,000. I would have to look into but i don't suspect there would another league in Europe with that kind of average capacity, meaning this league would have the means to break European attendance records.

I believe the furthest distance would be Lisbon to AIK, in Stockholm. 34 Hours by Car, 2237miles.

The shortest journey would be us vs our honking neighbours. The league woudl maintain several rivalries, noticably ourselves, Ajax/Feyenoord/PSV, Porto/Benfica, and would perhaps breed new ones, such as Rosenborg/AIK/Copenhagen.

football needs change, and it needs it fast, so the big question is, what exactly is the main road block for a league like this to be set-up and rescue our game?

The rest of the teams in Scotland we know woudl love this to go through, Scottish football would become competitive again, who knows what the minnows could achieve with the big 2 gone in this country, and that same philosophy applies in the other leagues mentioned above.

It's time to wake up and smell the coffee.

[govanblue 16,847]

Is it reasonable to expect 5 clubs to quit Netherlands and Portugal and 4 clubs to quit Belgium?

Where would that leave their national associations?

[LiverpoolBlue 1,413]

Brilliant idea ,, on paper.

But with so many noses in the short term trough, there is no chance of anyone smelling any coffee.

[trueblue68 2,497]

More or less it would have to involve every club resigning from their league and forcing the case. I cannot see that happening at this time.

[delamonty 992]

I see you are deeply committed to this Ricky -- and it makes sense. IF the Holy Grail here is money.. then the Atlantic setup makes perfect sense - always has. Our support has demonstrated for years (going back to the earliest forays into Europe) that we will follow on irrespective of distance. It's a big ask.... But.. the world needs to change.

Walter said it perfectly after the Man U match at Old trafford that things need to change.. (Near the end.. scroll down its on the page -- slags off UEFA as well)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/8994314.stm

Needs to happen This current reconstruction idea is ridiculous...

[Goianegra 4,710]

Bias asside, I think it would be a fantastic league.

[TheKingObv 10,858]

Hated this idea a few years ago. Now I'd bite your hand off for it!

[S1lv3r 274]

Is it reasonable to expect 5 clubs to quit each of Netherlands, Belgium and Portugal?

Where would that leave their national associations?

You'd have to doubt it... good as it looks.

DeBoer was only on the news earlier on saying Rangers have to be in Scotland given that we are Scottish etc..... he isn't for it.

I'd doubt very much, in fact I'd put my house on no one in Portugal ever wanting to leave their own league, no need.

It's a non-starter for me.

[Ricky_ 893]

Is it reasonable to expect 5 clubs to quit Netherlands and Portugal and 4 clubs to quit Belgium?

Where would that leave their national associations?

in a more competitive state?

these clubs dominate their domestic leagues like Rangers & Celtic dominate here.

like i said, its the basic principle that competition is only really competitive when it's participants are on an even keel.

When you have 2 clubs in Scotland with 50k+ stadiums with significantly more resources than everyone else, in the long term it can only ever be a 2 horse race. In Holland it's at best a 4 horse race. In Norway, Rosenborg recently won something like 11 or 12 in a row.

Football needs the basic philosophy of keeping competitions matched evenly, keep them competitive. The bigger clubs need to find a solution to breed evenly matched competition, and they would surely be leaving behind a league which would then find itself in a more competitive state itself.

[S1lv3r 274]

For me , I'd rather we won all put in front of us .... get back to whatever the top league will be called here, win it too for many, many, many years and THAT is the biggest get it right up you that we can give to any 'taig-minded rhat' within the Scottish Football set-up.

That and getting back to chanting the billy boys with proper wording...... fook em all I say !

[govanblue 16,847]

in a more competitive state?

these clubs dominate their domestic leagues like Rangers & Celtic dominate here.

like i said, its the basic principle that competition is only really competitive when it's participants are on an even keel.

When you have 2 clubs in Scotland with 50k+ stadiums with significantly more resources than everyone else, in the long term it can only ever be a 2 horse race. In Holland it's at best a 4 horse race. In Norway, Rosenborg recently won something like 11 or 12 in a row.

Football needs the basic philosophy of keeping competitions matched evenly, keep them competitive. The bigger clubs need to find a solution to breed evenly matched competition, and they would surely be leaving behind a league which would then find itself in a more competitive state itself.

I'm not knocking your idea - I'd love it.

But I don't think 5 clubs dominating a league is anywhere near as unhealthy as 2 clubs dominating a league.

Also, I really can't see the Portuguese wanting to visit Scotland or Scandinavia - although I can see us loving a trip to Faro

[govanblue 16,847]

in a more competitive state?

Or bankrupt?

Look at the impact on Scottish football of us moving down. Ok Div 3 are loving it, but the SPL are falling to pieces.

[Ricky_ 893]

I'm not knocking your idea - I'd love it.

But I don't think 5 clubs dominating a league is anywhere near as unhealthy as 2 clubs dominating a league.

Also, I really can't see the Portuguese wanting to visit Scotland or Scandinavia - although I can see us loving a trip to Faro

the question for the portugese would simply be a case of goign with the more lucrative option.

Like i said in the OP, this league would potentially have a customer base of 63.32 million people across 7 countries and would guarentee it would strike a significant, multi-national TV deal & multi-national sponsorship deals.

Surely the revenue a league like this could generate would completely dwarf whatever the top division in Portugal is making?

[S1lv3r 274]

It's been spoke about for some time, but it seems as though that changes are happening across Europe.

It looks as though that Russia are about to merge with the Ukraine to create a new league in an effort to create a bigger and better product. The penny is finally dropping that for the most part, the domestic leagues in Europe outside of England/Wales, France, Spain, Germany & Italy are simply too small to compete. That leaves a hell of alot of countries consistantly trailing these leagues, and in truth, given the capitalist nature of this sport, the gap will only continue to widen as it has exponentially over the last 10 years.

European countries need to merge to create a league in which it's big fish can escape the small ponds, leaving the small pond to populated with suitable fish - allowing those fish thrive without the sharks, and the sharks to thrive in a tank with other sharks.

That to me spells out an Atlantic league where clubs with stadiums of around roughly of 30k+ should be formed. This means the clubs are supported well enough and established enough to bring the audience to the product.

The countries i'd include would e: Scotland, Portugal, Holland, Belgium, & a few of the giants stuck with the minnows in Scandinavia

Geographically that doesn't cover a huge area, infact alot smaller than that of european competition. Ourselves, Holland & Belgium would be rather central, with the greatest distance being Portugal to Norway/Sweden, which ofcourse is nowhere near the sort of distance that would need to be travelled in a European tie against a Russian or Turkish side.

So which clubs should be invited?

Rangers, SCO, 51,082

(i'd prefer the tims weren't invited & left to rot in their filthy mire, but they probably would be, so i'll include them reluctantly for now)

C*ltic, SCO, 60,000

AIK, SWE, 54,392

Rosenborg, NOR, 21,850

FC Copenhagen, DEN, 42,385

Brondby, DEN, 26,180

Ajax, NED, 52,960

PSV, NED, 35,119

Twente, NED, 30,014

Feyenoord, NED, 51,777

Vitesse, NED, 28,278

Anderlecht, BELG, 26,361

Club Brugge, BELG, 29,042

Standard Liege, BELG, 29,388

Genk, BELG, 24,604

Porto, PTG, 50,399

Benfica, PTG, 65,647

Braga, PTG, 30,268

Sporting Lisbon, PTG, 50,466

Academica, PTG, 30,075

That makes 20 teams.

There probably would be a slight gulf between the top clubs with 50k+ capacity like ourselves and Ajax against the slightly smaller clubs like Vitesse, but overall it be a pretty open, hard fought & close league.

Given that it's a new set-up, it could also adopt a more socialist model than we're used to seeing to keep the competition even and teams roughly on an even keel. A straight cut of TV coverage & money, and perhaps a 70/30 gate split in favor of the home team on all games. Also an even cut of the leagues sponsorships, it would attract sponsorships from all over Europe given the exposure, so be passing on an equal cut to all the teams could help emulate the riches of leagues such as the German or English set-up.

There would be the peace of mind for club owners that there would never be any relegation and that with a more socialist set-up it's unlikely to be any major financial gulf between teams, so every season brings it's own chances to win the league. 20 Teams could pose an issue competing in cups, but the cup set-up could be 4 groups of 5, randomly drawn, with the top 2 going through to form a knock-out last 8.

The clubs could also apply to participate in their countries domestic cup - for example, the Scottish or League cup for us - if our domestic FA's were interested in doing so.

A few figures:

The teams above cover 7 countries in western Europe, those countries have a combined population of 63.32 million.

The combined capactiy of the stadiums of the 20 teams above is 790,284 with an average stadium capactiy of 40,000. I would have to look into but i don't suspect there would another league in Europe with that kind of average capacity, meaning this league would have the means to break European attendance records.

I believe the furthest distance would be Lisbon to AIK, in Stockholm. 34 Hours by Car, 2237miles.

The shortest journey would be us vs our honking neighbours. The league woudl maintain several rivalries, noticably ourselves, Ajax/Feyenoord/PSV, Porto/Benfica, and would perhaps breed new ones, such as Rosenborg/AIK/Copenhagen.

football needs change, and it needs it fast, so the big question is, what exactly is the main road block for a league like this to be set-up and rescue our game?

The rest of the teams in Scotland we know woudl love this to go through, Scottish football would become competitive again, who knows what the minnows could achieve with the big 2 gone in this country, and that same philosophy applies in the other leagues mentioned above.

It's time to wake up and smell the coffee.

Your right mate, footy DOES need a good kick (preferably at the diving rats who are wasting the great game)

It is ALL about money these days and always kid of has been if the truth is told.... there's just a LOT more of it now is all.

The ONLY way forward is with SKY TV money unless a new company comes around ?

We'd get into the English game IF SKY TV say so... until then nothing will ever change imo.

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

It's sad that we are having to come with things like this, which are logistically difficult, when the obvious answer would be to construct a UK League. Merging the UK associations should have happened decades ago.

[Ricky_ 893]

Or bankrupt?

Look at the impact on Scottish football of us moving down. Ok Div 3 are loving it, but the SPL are falling to pieces.

perhaps, they'd be sucking a huge amount of revenue out of deadwood leagues like we did when we left the SPL.

but in the bigger pictre it's a good thing if those FA's had the capcity to start again and the clubs in question weren't left with mountains of debt.

It woud leave them with the chance to rebuild their domestic leagues more competitively.

I should also point out when leaving the SFL, the breakaway SPL agreed to pay the SFL £2m per year in compensation for leaving it behind.

I personally believe that the Atlantic league would have the capacity to become possibly the wealthiest league in Europe - it be a dream come true for billionaire sugar daddies desperate to get involved in lucrative football ownership. That would then allow for a sizeable compensation package for the domestic leagues left behind so they can rebuild.

[govanblue 16,847]

Surely the revenue a league like this could generate would completely dwarf whatever the top division in Portugal is making?

It would, and it's a mouthwatering prospect in many ways.

But that revenue would only go to those Atlantic clubs, not to the national association, so the current clubs in Portugal who survive off the back of those clubs would suddenly find themselves skint.

Also, Porto manage to get into Champions League quite often, so they're maybe not as desperate for change as we are?

[linfield1690 4,249]

Will L.A galaxy be invited to this Atlantic league?

[Ricky_ 893]

It would, and it's a mouthwatering prospect in many ways.

But that revenue would only go to those Atlantic clubs, not to the national association, so the current clubs in Portugal who survive off the back of those clubs would suddenly find themselves skint.

Also, Porto manage to get into Champions League quite often, so they're maybe not as desperate for change as we are?

but if an Atlantic league has the potential to become the wealthiest league in europe (which i'd argue it does), then the domestic FA's could be entitled to a % fee in compesation liek the SPL did with the SFL, to keep them in the black & use the funds to reconstruct the domestic games.

As for Porto, they flukely won the CL about 10 years ago and they know they have literally no chance of ever doing it again in their fans life-times because they simply can't compete with the might of Man U, Man City, Cheslea, Barca, Real, nter, Milan, Juve, Bayern.... the leageus these teasm play in simply allow for greater revenue, thus buying better players.

I think Porto have a taste for it, and Benfica are a huge club aswell, they, like us, should be more competitive given the size of club they are and are only held back by geography.

[govanblue 16,847]

I personally believe that the Atlantic league would have the capacity to become possibly the wealthiest league in Europe

You could be right there.

Let's hope it's one of the avenues CG is pursuing.

Sounds so much more enticing (to me) than English League football .

[S1lv3r 274]

The main thing wrong in the game today is that too many of the players (top players too) are wee cheats who dive around trying to 'win' things.

Far too many of 'the wrong sort' are playing the great game today.

Far too many are pish.... and I do mean pish at football.... yet more money than ever is thrown at the game ?

Too many are too lazy and that's WHY we have so many pish players.

Science has ruined the game.... computers, xbox'x, playstations... etc.

So WHAT we have now is a poor game with average at best players with hardly any 'world-class' types plying their trade..... so the quality will never really ever be there again as it was in decades gone by.

You hear that there is NO POINT in having say a top league of 16 teams these days as there is not enough quality... I'm SURE you too have hear the self same pundits saying this ?

Yet you wonder.... do they ever LOOK at the quality IN the spl ? I mean, c'mon...... quality... as if ! hahahahaha

IF they DO make a total mess out of the game here..... then we blame as of now the sfa and the chairmen of the spl clubs...... it may get around to blaming the sfl as well IF they vote for the wrong set-up of new leagues as well.

[govanblue 16,847]

The main thing wrong in the game today is that too many of the players (top players too) are wee cheats who dive around trying to 'win' things.

Far too many of 'the wrong sort' are playing the great game today.

Far too many are pish.... and I do mean pish at football.... yet more money than ever is thrown at the game ?

Too many are too lazy and that's WHY we have so many pish players.

Science has ruined the game.... computers, xbox'x, playstations... etc.

So WHAT we have now is a poor game with average at best players with hardly any 'world-class' types plying their trade..... so the quality will never really ever be there again as it was in decades gone by.

You hear that there is NO POINT in having say a top league of 16 teams these days as there is not enough quality... I'm SURE you too have hear the self same pundits saying this ?

Yet you wonder.... do they ever LOOK at the quality IN the spl ? I mean, c'mon...... quality... as if ! hahahahaha

IF they DO make a total mess out of the game here..... then we blame as of now the sfa and the chairmen of the spl clubs...... it may get around to blaming the sfl as well IF they vote for the wrong set-up of new leagues as well.

You sure you're in the right thread s1lv3r?

[TheKingObv 10,858]

The main thing wrong in the game today is that too many of the players (top players too) are wee cheats who dive around trying to 'win' things.

Far too many of 'the wrong sort' are playing the great game today.

Far too many are pish.... and I do mean pish at football.... yet more money than ever is thrown at the game ?

Too many are too lazy and that's WHY we have so many pish players.

Science has ruined the game.... computers, xbox'x, playstations... etc.

So WHAT we have now is a poor game with average at best players with hardly any 'world-class' types plying their trade..... so the quality will never really ever be there again as it was in decades gone by.

You hear that there is NO POINT in having say a top league of 16 teams these days as there is not enough quality... I'm SURE you too have hear the self same pundits saying this ?

Yet you wonder.... do they ever LOOK at the quality IN the spl ? I mean, c'mon...... quality... as if ! hahahahaha

IF they DO make a total mess out of the game here..... then we blame as of now the sfa and the chairmen of the spl clubs...... it may get around to blaming the sfl as well IF they vote for the wrong set-up of new leagues as well.

Seems legit

[Marco 1,757]

Logistically I can see it being a nightmare but the longer teams in our position continue to dwindle in inferior leagues, the further we'll fall behind the top Premier League teams and Barca/Madrid (etc). The implementation of the financial fair play rules may actually help speed this along. Here's hoping - wouldn't mind seeing us against Ajax again - wouldn't mind an annual trip.

[allcinaye 336]

Ricky, I’m all for it, I also think this is where the long term future lies for us as a Club, the problem is, sometimes certain people get caught up in doing the things that are urgent instead of doing the things that are important and unfortunately this seems to be the case with the current knee-jerk proposal emanating from this new SPL/SFL alliance.