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Barcelona, The End of Days?


blueboy94

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After recent results, is it unreasonable to assume that the Barcelona may not be the (as often hailed) 'Best team in the World?'

The last few seasons I've really enjoyed watching them play, intricate passing and moving to play through defensive lines to win in style. I'd say between 2009-2012, this worked brilliantly. With two Champions Leagues and three La Liga titles they were the team to beat. Indeed, since 2008, the Champions League winners (if not Barcelona) have been the team that knocked them out.

Recently though, well, it's just not the same is it? In the big games (Chelsea, AC Milan, Madrid on numerous occasions) the 'tiki-tika' philosophy isn't fooling teams anymore. Even minor teams with a well organised defence can get a result against them.

A well drilled team can force Messi to drop absurdly deep to see the ball, a full back concentrating won't be beaten by Pedro and then there's the problem of width. Vilanova (and Roura) prefer to have a combination of Iniesta and Fabregas on the left which makes the midfield far to congested to do anything with the ball. The solution would be to play Sanchez but on recent form, the less said about him the better. At the back, Pique isn't the defender he was a few years ago and Puyol is not getting any younger. It's something ridiculous like 10 games in a row without a clean sheet.

I don't think they'll get past Milan next week in the Champions League. Capable of scoring for sure, but they'll need to score at least 4 goals to go through once Milan get an away goal.

A lot of credit must go to Mourinho for showing the world how to play against them. Ever since the humiliating 5-0 a few seasons ago, the tactics have been updated and the results have improved with this. Then tonight was a culmination of everything he's worked on over the last 3 seasons.

So, is it the beginning of an end of an era for Barcelona, or does anyone think they still have the quality to play and win in style?

P.S Does anyone think that Jordi Alba looks like a young Ben Affleck? I asked in the other thread but no one responded.

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Barcelona go through spells of mental fatigue, always have under this era created by Pep. It's only natural, the sort of creativity and fluidity they play with simply isnt possible to maintain - i'm astounded they have even been anywhere near as consistent as they have been for 4 years.

They are still a better outfit than Madrid, both in personal and the team, theres a reason why they are trouncing the league with ease. They are however, much more suited to preying upon, and demolishing lesser teams, and these days often look 2nd best when a big team comes to town, or even a team like the scum, execute a hardworked, thought out gameplan.

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As long as they have Messi, Iniesta and Xavi they'll always be competing for trophies and they are still well ahead in La Liga but they're clearly nowhere near as effective as they were.

And I think there's a few factors to consider: Pep leaving is a big loss. There's no doubt about that. He brought a lot of the side through and completely transformed Barcelona from a side that finished behind Villareal and had massive dressing room problems to arguably the best side of all time.

Also, Tito's health problems will have had an effect as well. Roura seems like a talented coach but he isn't their manager.

I mentioned this a few times in the match thread so forgive me if I'm sounding like a broken record but it's also Cesc and Iniesta. They just can't play together and one of them has had to be shunted wide and while they're superb footballers, that's not getting the best out of them.

They're also really reliant on Messi. When he's at his best, which is quite often, it's fine. But when he's not, and he hasn't for a couple of weeks now, they don't seem to have much else. A Barca side having 2 shots on target for the whole match would have been unthinkable a while ago.

And it's getting much easier to contain them. Real and Milan both forced Barcelona inside where the play was congested and Barca had no out-ball out wide. Usually, Alves would be charging down the right to stretch the game but that wasn't happening. And when they did get the ball out wide, there was only one man in the box.

They're still a great team but if they keep playing this way, it's the end of the talk about them being the best side ever IMO.

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As long as they have Messi, Iniesta and Xavi they'll always be competing for trophies and they are still well ahead in La Liga but they're clearly nowhere near as effective as they were.

And I think there's a few factors to consider: Pep leaving is a big loss. There's no doubt about that. He brought a lot of the side through and completely transformed Barcelona from a side that finished behind Villareal and had massive dressing room problems to arguably the best side of all time.

Also, Tito's health problems will have had an effect as well. Roura seems like a talented coach but he isn't their manager.

I mentioned this a few times in the match thread so forgive me if I'm sounding like a broken record but it's also Cesc and Iniesta. They just can't play together and one of them has had to be shunted wide and while they're superb footballers, that's not getting the best out of them.

They're also really reliant on Messi. When he's at his best, which is quite often, it's fine. But when he's not, and he hasn't for a couple of weeks now, they don't seem to have much else. A Barca side having 2 shots on target for the whole match would have been unthinkable a while ago.

And it's getting much easier to contain them. Real and Milan both forced Barcelona inside where the play was congested and Barca had no out-ball out wide. Usually, Alves would be charging down the right to stretch the game but that wasn't happening. And when they did get the ball out wide, there was only one man in the box.

They're still a great team but if they keep playing this way, it's the end of the talk about them being the best side ever IMO.

Why are they so far ahead in the league when they have obviously been on the slide for quite a while?

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Barcelona go through spells of mental fatigue, always have under this era created by Pep. It's only natural, the sort of creativity and fluidity they play with simply isnt possible to maintain - i'm astounded they have even been anywhere near as consistent as they have been for 4 years.

(tu)

It's not a perfect comparison, since their styles are somewhat different, but their current problems reminds me of something Paolo Maldini once said about Sacchi's Milan and their pressing game - that after a few seasons the players were so physically and mentally exhausted from having to take control of every second of every game that they couldn't actually keep it up any more. And they were far less consistent than Barcelona have been over the same kind of timeframe. It's easy to forget that even though that Milan team is considered one of the greatest club sides ever, they only won one out of four scudettos during Sacchi's first tenure.

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Why are they so far ahead in the league when they have obviously been on the slide for quite a while?

Because they started the league season incredibly well with Messi being at his absolute best. Real also dropped a lot of silly points and they had massive internal problems.

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Because they started the league season incredibly well with Messi being at his absolute best. Real also dropped a lot of silly points and they had massive internal problems.

Messi wasn't at his best. He hasn't been at his best since the 2010-11 season. His superhuman goal-scoring feats have masked a significant dulling of his magic.

Dare I say the same thing happened to Wayne Rooney?

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Messi wasn't at his best. He hasn't been at his best since the 2010-11 season. His superhuman goal-scoring feats have masked a significant dulling of his magic.

Dare I say the same thing happened to Wayne Rooney?

Preferred him when he used to come in off the right wing and go by players for fun. Incredibly productive now, but nowhere near as entertaining.

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Messi wasn't at his best. He hasn't been at his best since the 2010-11 season. His superhuman goal-scoring feats have masked a significant dulling of his magic.

Dare I say the same thing happened to Wayne Rooney?

It depends if him at his best is when he's an absolute goalscoring machine or when he was at his aesthetic best and playing in the best Barca side.

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I'd say cigarettes, vodka and whores ruined Rooney a wee bit more.

I'm not speculating as to the reasons, nor comparing their talents, but it is certainly true that Rooney was once an exciting player and is no longer. Messi still does things that ought to drop the jaw (but generally don't, because we're so used to them), but I can't deny that there are several Barcelona players I prefer to watch now. And that's bearing in mind that I'm not at all embarrassed to say Messi once made the hair on the back of my neck stand up.
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I'm not speculating as to the reasons, nor comparing their talents, but it is certainly true that Rooney was once an exciting player and is no longer. Messi still does things that ought to drop the jaw (but generally don't, because we're so used to them), but I can't deny that there are several Barcelona players I prefer to watch now. And that's bearing in mind that I'm not at all embarrassed to say Messi once made the hair on the back of my neck stand up.

I completely understood what you meant. I was making a funny, I thought. :(

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It depends if him at his best is when he's an absolute goalscoring machine or when he was at his aesthetic best and playing in the best Barca side.

He was considerably better even as recently as last season, and was let down by his team-mates. Last season he was capable of amazing goal-scoring feats AND scoring amazing goals AND setting them up. This season there has been something perfunctory about him in every game, whether he produces or not. I just think he's tired.
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He was considerably better even as recently as last season, and was let down by his team-mates. Last season he was capable of amazing goal-scoring feats AND scoring amazing goals AND setting them up. This season there has been something perfunctory about him in every game, whether he produces or not. I just think he's tired.

Maybe so but my point was, he was winning them games when they weren't at their best hence their tremendous start to the league campaign. He was at his best in front of goal. It's definitely catching up with him now though.

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The thing with Messi is that the position he plays works against the lesser teams, roaming between midfield and attack to be equally effective in a creating role as well as getting into goal scoring positions. A well organised defensive team really limits what he can do. Tonight for example, a soild back four with two defensive mids in front of them, and for the Barca system to work, Messi must somehow find space in dangerous areas. On top of this, the congestion in the midfield from Barcelona players basically nullifies anything Messi can do. I think in these types of situations he'd be more effective on the right. He may not get into goal scoring positions but he'll see a lot more of the ball.

Also, I've noticed in games where he hasn't had much of an influence, the times he does get the ball he tries to do to much. Taking on an extra man instead of playing the simple pass, often losing the ball, creating a sort of chicken and egg cycle.

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