12-12-18 from Halliday

[72barca 1,788]

Rangers set to remain bottom tier in 12-12-18 plan

By STEPHEN HALLIDAY

Published on

Saturday 9 March 2013 00:00

THE combined rule book for a proposed 12-12-18 league set-up in Scottish football next season has confirmed there will be no fast-track route for Rangers back to the top flight.

The first draft of rules for the new body, which would incorporate all 42 current senior clubs and be called The Scottish Professional Football League, also reveals there will be no championship trophy up for grabs for clubs in the middle tier of the new structure.

The initial copy of the combined rules document, which was distributed to clubs this week and is subject to revision, has been obtained by The Scotsman.

It formalises the composition of the controversial set-up, devised by the board of the Scottish Premier League and backed by the senior management of the Scottish Football League and Scottish Football Association.

The unified SPFL, which would see the clubs in one league body again for the first time since the SPL breakaway in 1998, is intended to be put in place for the start of next season. It will require an 11-1 vote in 
favour from the current SPL clubs and then 75 per cent backing from the 29 SFL clubs eligible to vote – Rangers are ineligible due to their status as associate members of the SFA following their liquidation – if it is to go ahead.

The rule book states that the 12 clubs in the top division for the 2013-14 campaign will be the first 11 clubs in the current SPL and the champions of this season’s SFL First Division.

The second division of 12 clubs next season will be made up of the club relegated from the current SPL, the eight clubs finishing from second to ninth place in the current First Division, the champions of the current Second Division and the winners of two play-off ties.

The draft document states the club who finish second bottom of the current First Division would go into the play-offs, but that is a clerical error. Those play-off ties would therefore be between the club who finish bottom of the current First Division and the fourth-placed club in the Second Division; and the second and third-placed clubs in the Second Division.

This season’s Third Division play-offs will not take place if the proposal is approved. The new 18-team third tier will be comprised of the losers of the two Second Division play-off ties, the bottom six clubs in the Second Division and all ten clubs in the Third Division. That means Rangers, as Third Division champions, will remain 
in the bottom tier of league football next season. Details of promotion and relegation in future seasons under 12-12-18 are also detailed. The top two divisions will split into three groups of eight clubs after 22 matches of the campaign. The top eight clubs will play each other twice more, home and away, to determine who are Scottish champions and who earn European places.

The middle eight, or play-off eight as described in the document, will have their points reset to zero and play each other home and away. The top four clubs will be in the top division the following season, the bottom four in the second division.

No trophy will be awarded to the club finishing top of the play-off eight, with the document declaring: “Given the split at Game 22 it is difficult to have a Div 2 champion”.

The bottom two clubs in the third group of eight will be automatically relegated to the bottom tier of 18 clubs for the following season. The top two clubs in the bottom tier will be automatically promoted to the second tier of 12 clubs for the following season.

There will be a play-off competition involving the third and fourth bottom clubs in the third group of eight and the third, fourth, fifth and sixth-placed clubs in the bottom tier to determine two more relegation-promotion places.

There will also be a pyramid play-off competition between the two clubs who finish at the bottom of the 18-club third tier and two candidate non-league clubs identified by the SFA from a national competition

approved by the SPFL board.

Under the combined rules, there would also be a standard 15-point penalty for any club which experiences an insolvency event. Ten points would be deducted immediately, with the further five-point deduction applied at a stage of the season when the SPFL board determined it would have the most meaningful impact.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...ce=twitterfeed

Here's a couple of comments from FF

Ok I do not even know where to begin with this.....

I have read it through twice now and I am still scratching my head. How can anyone think this is a good idea???

The middle 8??

No Div2 or 2nd tier champions???? Zero-ing points totals??? If this was this season and Dundee found themselves so far adrift at an early stage in the season, what would be the point of Dundee turning up to games or to put it another way what would be the players motivation if they knew soon enough all points totals would be zero-ed and they would be back in with a chance to stay up??? OR to look at it in another way, You could have a team that finishes 9th before the split to the middle 8, with a healthy points total and in a relatively safe position. Then the middle 8 group of games kicks off with all points totals zero-ed and this team go through a dip in form or get a few injuries to key players and find themselves finishing in the bottom 4 and getting relegated, when really if they had kept their points total that took them to 9th in the top tier before the zeroing they would have probably survived the relegation. Neither scenario, whether it be the Hypothetical Dundee example or the team finishing 9th before the "split" example is fair or dare I say in line with "sporting integrity"!!!

In addition the teams that yo-yo between the current spl and Div 1, like Dundee, Falkirk, St Mirren, Dunfermline or infact most of the Div 1 teams whos biggest ambition or achievement is being crowed Div 1 champions or Champions of the 2nd tier whatever that may be called, will now never get that chance to win that crown and therefore are never likely to win any silverware again!! Where is the "sporting integrity" in that. It's a total injustice that, that joy the players, manager and fans just might experience if their small club wins Div 1 will now be taken away from them!!

More exciting games???

I don't see how any of this will bring more excitement to the game in general either. There will be so many clubs that will basically find themselves playing for nothing!!

5 points when we decide???

As for the 15 pt deduction but we'll take 10 and then a further 5 when we think it will have the biggest impact is unbelievable. It shows an incredible amount of arrogance that the "new" board can just make this judgement or should make this judgement and reminds me of the new sectarian legislation where it is left to the discretion of police (are they qualified to make that judgement/are they policy makers?) to make decisions when, where or what is sectarian or inciting hatred or causing offense just like with this, the board will decide when to impose the further 5point deduction to cause the biggest impact!!! But most horrifying of all is not their arrogance or the fact that these board members think they are the best to judge but that they actually think it makes a difference!!! 5 points now, or in the middle of the season or at the end of the season, is still just 5points regardless of how you cut it. Obviously every club is going to know to take 5 points off their points total to reflect their true points total and therefore league position regardless of when the all knowing, all mighty board decide to remove them!!!!! It is totally moronic!!!! The whole thing is a total shambles but this 10 points and then 5 points later when we decide is sooooo embarrassing!!! I cannot actually believe that has been written into the rules!!!Why would any sane-minded chairman of a non-SPL-club vote for this?

Here's another one on the rules

On another sidenote ... (quote from FF)

As we were told in the summer, there are strict rules on promotion and relegation.

We were not actually relegated in the summer as there was no mechanism to relegate us from the spl to the sfl3.

There is also no mechanism to promote a team that finishes bottom of the sfl3. Covered by rule 93 of the Sfl.

As the team that finishes bottom of the sfl3 cannot be promoted, then if we are in the same division as said bottom placed team, then we have not been promoted.

If we have not been promoted, they are not allowed to disband the SFL.

85. RESTRICTION ON DISSOLUTION

It shall not be competent to resolve to wind up the League with the purpose or effect of then re-forming a National Association Football League within three years of the date of the resolution to wind up which shall exclude any club formerly in membership of the League or which shall exclude a club formerly in membership of the League from being promoted to a higher division of such League where it had a legitimate expectation of such promotion when a member of the League,

unless such club shall consent in writing to such exclusion

; and in the event of such a resolution being passed and such circumstances arising within the said three year period such resolution shall be null and void and treated as such ab initio.

note: An agreement is said to be "void ab initio" if it has at no time had any legal validity.

Either the guy posting the story is full of it, or the rules just don't allow this set-up without Rangers being promoted, or if we don't agree in writing to not being promoted.

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

Would the fact that we are an "associate member" scupper his theory?

[gogzy 31,195]

Farcical at best. Total shambles from top to bottom.

[BLUE CYCLOPS 26]

Would the fact that we are an "associate member" scupper his theory?

=====================================================================================================

I raised this point a few weeks ago in another thread.

Everything proposed depends on the TV deal having Rangers on board.

What are the implications if Rangers tell them that, since we have not had a vote on this then we are not

obligated to honour any deal signed without our permission.

We will not agree to Rangers being included in any agreement. I'm sure that legally we would be in breach

but what if we make it a trial of strength?

Try dealing behind our backs and we will f**k you all up. More diplomatically off course.

[72barca 1,788]

Would the fact that we are an "associate member" scupper his theory?

No, it just says "a member of the league", doesn't stipulate full or associate.

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

No, it just says "a member of the league", doesn't stipulate full or associate.

We have them by the balls then

The Stranraer ruling strengthens our case

Why have the media not been all over this?

[72barca 1,788]

Would the fact that we are an "associate member" scupper his theory?

=====================================================================================================

I raised this point a few weeks ago in another thread.

Everything proposed depends on the TV deal having Rangers on board.

What are the implications if Rangers tell them that, since we have not had a vote on this then we are not

obligated to honour any deal signed without our permission.

We will not agree to Rangers being included in any agreement. I'm sure that legally we would be in breach

but what if we make it a trial of strength?

Try dealing behind our backs and we will f**k you all up. More diplomatically off course.

I wrote to the SFL a while back asking what was Ranger's position on TV contracts and their reply included -

"Rangers F.C. are an associate member club of the SFL and, as such, have no voting rights until they become a full member of the League which is achieved after four successive years as an associate member.

All central contracts, including television contracts, are negotiated on behalf of all clubs, by the governing body."

[SectionRedHMS 190]

I wrote to the SFL a while back asking what was Ranger's position on TV contracts and their reply included -

"Rangers F.C. are an associate member club of the SFL and, as such, have no voting rights until they become a full member of the League which is achieved after four successive years as an associate member.

All central contracts, including television contracts, are negotiated on behalf of all clubs, by the governing body."

Annan Athletic were given membership for 2008-2009 season.Wonder if they voted on any issues up until 2012-2013 season.

[scarkev 3,540]

An absolute joke of a set-up that gets worse and worse the more you hear about it....I know it was mentioned previously and some dismissed it but if we win this title but are denied the right of promotion there will be the opportunity for the fans and club to sue as you cant change the rules (sporting integrity) after fans and clubs have budgeted for promotions, play-offs etc. Imagine how Queens Park would feel after a great season....(erm yeah that was just a serious of friendlies you played travelling all round Scotland). Pathetic.

[gogzy 31,195]

We have them by the balls then

The Stranraer ruling strengthens our case

Why have the media not been all over this?

the media aint touching it because, heaven forbid, it might benifit Rangers.

[Fiogh 178]

Sounds like an absolutely terrible set up - how are they selling this to the clubs? As the OP states the whole 'reset to zero' thing is one of the worst ideas ever dreamt up.

[redwhiteandgreen 43]

i actually quite like the proposed plan. Yes they should not try to have it in place for next season, there should be a season where everybody knows what they are playing for, but i like the idea of an 8-8-8 split; it will give more interesting games and resetting points to zero for the middle 8 is OK, it applies to all 8 teams so is fair. the 10+5 points is a bit weird and needs further thought but the opening of the league to other teams is the real carrot; hopefully we get rid of some teams who play in front of men and a dog in wrecked old stadia.

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

Annan Athletic were given membership for 2008-2009 season.Wonder if they voted on any issues up until 2012-2013 season.

Likewise Gretna

[Fed Up 211]

I can't stop laughing! How long has it taken them to come up with this pish? Whoever came up with this is a joke.

I don't know why they don't just say:

* no associate member will be promoted ever if Slanty Eyes says so

* only teams whose name begins and ends with a c are allowed to win the league

* only teams with a history of boy bug+#rry get any prize or tv money

* all gate receipts of associate members go to another club and that club will be owned by non Scots other than Romanov

Surely that achieves all Liewell's wants and needs so....

Fight these morons every step of the way - the rules they are trying to slot in half way are in breach of anti competitive legislation and they would lose in any court of law. Use fighting fund money and take more donations if needed to drag them through every court in the land and in Europe if necessary - at worst we will bankrupt them all and The World will see how corrupt they are!

[boss 1,941]

No, it just says "a member of the league", doesn't stipulate full or associate.

I agree. Rule 85 applies to both full and associate members.

[simplythebest 11,453]

i actually quite like the proposed plan. Yes they should not try to have it in place for next season, there should be a season where everybody knows what they are playing for, but i like the idea of an 8-8-8 split; it will give more interesting games and resetting points to zero for the middle 8 is OK, it applies to all 8 teams so is fair. the 10+5 points is a bit weird and needs further thought but the opening of the league to other teams is the real carrot; hopefully we get rid of some teams who play in front of men and a dog in wrecked old stadia.

It has been tried elsewhere and never worked.

[Old No7. 852]

So the powers of the game in Scotland have set a competion for all the RC schools to re-write the rule book. The stipulation being the big bad team from Ibrox are not allowed to move on and up! Anyone found not playing by this rule will be sent to the naughty room where a man in a robe will carryout the punishment!!

The witch hunt continues against the most successful team in Scotland!

[scarkev 3,540]

No trophy for the winners of the championship? Where are these exciting games we are hearing about? Surely excitement comes from competing for trophies?

[tannerall 25,935]

Should split teams into two leagues. Those who like us, and those who don't.

We all know which one would make more money, have more enjoyable football and get the better attendances.

[islandblue 366]

Can't see Liewell getting the necessary support for this pish

[gogzy 31,195]

So the powers of the game in Scotland have set a competion for all the RC schools to re-write the rule book. The stipulation being the big bad team from Ibrox are not allowed to move on and up! Anyone found not playing by this rule will be sent to the naughty room where a man in a robe will carryout the punishment!!

The witch hunt continues against the most successful team in Scotland!

in the WORLD sir.

[Bears r us 31,382]

No trophy for the winners of the championship? Where are these exciting games we are hearing about? Surely excitement comes from competing for trophies?

This must be one of the worst parts of this shite plan. Not having a cup for the Championship winners (if that is the correct name) is a very strange way to add excitment to a new league. Unbelievable.

[bornabear 6,275]

The lunatics really are in charge of the asylum with this load of pish. A 5 year old could come up with a better set of rules.

They had the chance to simplify the rules and come up with a "5 point deduction when we decide".

Can't these idiots see that they are killing Scottish Football.

I can't see many Chairmen voting for the unknown (some of them did last year).

[gogzy 31,195]

This must be one of the worst parts of this shite plan. Not having a cup for the Championship winners (if that is the correct name) is a very strange way to add excitment to a new league. Unbelievable.

come play in the only division in the world where you Dont win a championship title for winning the championship. There is not a big enough facepalm in the world to sum up my feelings on this issue

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

What company in their right mind in this economic climate is going to sponsor that shambles?