Corruption - Facts and figures please.

[The Educator 1,572]

With there being no game this week it gave me a bit of time to really consider what has gone on over the last couple of years (again). What I'd like to know is if anybody out there has the figures for how much each of the SPL clubs gained when they voted us out and used the whole situation to gain funds from Rangers.

The truth is that Rangers were fined and had various sums of cash withheld from them by the SFA/SPL. This was framed as punishments, but the fact is that this cash was not given to improve Scottish football across the country at any level, and it most certainly wasn't put in the pot to repay the debts left by the Old Co who previously owned the club. This money was actually given to the very people who sat in judgement on our club and as such was corrupt.

So exactly how much did each of these clubs get from this pot of cash that they gained through an act of corruption?

[bluenose1975 1,287]

its a good question but one unfortunately that would make no difference in my eyes, the corrupted cabal gained our funds as a consequence of their efforts to put us away for good, that was, for me, their only goal, plain and simple. gladly those plans fail failed as the thing these vermin will never understand is this, born a bluenose, live a bluenose, die a bluenose. a very proud moment sharing our stadium with so many like minded bears that first game back at ibrox. no surrender to the sfa.

[Ger77 742]

Once CW is found guilty of fraudulently buying the assets of the club and Rangers fc, its employees and fans are deemed innocent victims, these facts and figures will be very relevant indeed.

[GMac 1,405]

The TV deal brings in around £15 million, Rangers fans last year accounted for over a third of the total TV audience. I reckon we're worth £5million a year minimum to the SPFL. Talk of the fines and the witheld funds misses the bigger picture, even in the lower divisions we're still bank rolling Scottish football.

[Blue Heaven 37]

The liquidators have a duty to go after every penny due to old co and they will. I'm sure the SFA & the SPFL are very concerned about the liquidator's enquiries they could bankrupt both parties.Both parties have financial problems they are in dispute over the cost of reconstruction, the SFA are admitting they agreed to pay certain elements of reconstruction but need more time to pay & the SPFL cannot pay so both have financial problems. Let's hope the liquidator pushes them over the edge.

[rangersfc77 170]

The liquidators have a duty to go after every penny due to old co and they will. I'm sure the SFA & the SPFL are very concerned about the liquidator's enquiries they could bankrupt both parties.Both parties have financial problems they are in dispute over the cost of reconstruction, the SFA are admitting they agreed to pay certain elements of reconstruction but need more time to pay & the SPFL cannot pay so both have financial problems. Let's hope the liquidator pushes them over the edge.

Aye for the second time mate I hate the swine's and must admit since our downfall and the hatred and scheming by those at the top who contrived to completely destroy us I eagerly await the destruction of Scottish football

[Alwaysblue 709]

Once CW is found guilty of fraudulently buying the assets of the club and Rangers fc, its employees and fans are deemed innocent victims, these facts and figures will be very relevant indeed.

As a former shareholder, I am more than interested on how this develops. All shareholders would appear to have been the victims of a crime and I, for one, will be looking for recompense in some form, (Whyte being incarcerated is not enough for me). If Whyte was/is to believed he told the SFA of imending problems and they ran with it. In my view they are complicit in this. If memory serves me correctly the people involved were Regan, Petrie and Reilly, who would obviously report to Lawwell. They knew what was going on and did nothing.

Now as expected, we are found to be victims and I think that is likely, a lot of court cases could develop and both SFA and SPFL are in trouble.

[a loyal man 4]

You have a point we have been used and abused by all the "SPL" teams especially, but what will Rangers fans do about it? Short answer nothing the first game we play at Parkhead how many Rangers fans will be there? Instead of none (just imagine the press if none of us turn up) we will sell our full allocation so no point in bleating about it.The chief exec of Celtic can rip the pish out of us and we will still turn up and FILL HIS COFFERS SAD BUT TRUE.

[Ger77 742]

ALM you are only looking at one viewpoint and in my opinion the least important.

This about an unlawful act that cost many people their livelihood.

If people decide to attend matches at the piggery etc that is down to their own idea of what is right or wrong.

[Albertz 78 918]

We are still the only club in Scotland that's ever been fined by the SFA for going into admin! Forget Hearts £30m debt and another £30m on top of that in dodgy debt for equity deals from mad Vlad. Forget that Dundee have gone into admin twice, Forget that Livi went into administration and were relegated to SFL3 for failing to provide assurances they would see out that season and last but not least forget Dunfermline dumped 100% of debt they had with a 0p in the pound CVA, it's only Rangers who were deemed guilty enough to be fined.

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

We are still the only club in Scotland that's ever been fined by the SFA for going into admin! Forget Hearts £30m debt and another £30m on top of that in dodgy debt for equity deals from mad Vlad. Forget that Dundee have gone into admin twice, Forget that Livi went into administration and were relegated to SFL3 for failing to provide assurances they would see out that season and last but not least forget Dunfermline dumped 100% of debt they had with a 0p in the pound CVA, it's only Rangers who were deemed guilty enough to be fined.

Motherwell didn't get fined either IIRC

[Albertz 78 918]

Motherwell didn't get fined either IIRC

Motherwell never even got points docked either, they also like Aberdeen avoided relegation on a technicality. Funny how the "pure sporting integrity brigade" don't seem to have a problem with teams finishing bottom and not being relegated.

[The Educator 1,572]

The liquidators have a duty to go after every penny due to old co and they will. I'm sure the SFA & the SPFL are very concerned about the liquidator's enquiries they could bankrupt both parties.Both parties have financial problems they are in dispute over the cost of reconstruction, the SFA are admitting they agreed to pay certain elements of reconstruction but need more time to pay & the SPFL cannot pay so both have financial problems. Let's hope the liquidator pushes them over the edge.

The liquidator sold all rights to this cash to CG & Co when they purchased the club, they then signed this away as part of the five way agreement. So it's a case of the money being with held from the club by the SFA/SPL. The problem arises if any shareholder or group of shareholders decide to challenge this in court on the grounds that the money was extorted from the club by way of refusing a football licence if we did not agree. If that can be proven than the five way agreement isn't worth the paper it has been leaked on as it would have been signed under duress and as such would be void.

I believe that as it was the people who voted us out of the league who directly benefited financially from this and that the whole scenario was corrupt. That's why I'd like to know exactly who received what. Had the SFA/SPL withheld the cash and then sent it back to the liquidators of the old parent company to help cover debts I doubt if there would have been any dissenting voices from within our support, but to pocket it for themselves when it was they who sat in judgement is just wrong no mater how you look at it. Let's look at it another way if you get fined the judge, jury and police don't share the cash out amongst themselves, if they did nobody would ever win a court case as it would be in the financial interests of the jury to find you guilty.

[The Educator 1,572]

We are still the only club in Scotland that's ever been fined by the SFA for going into admin! Forget Hearts £30m debt and another £30m on top of that in dodgy debt for equity deals from mad Vlad. Forget that Dundee have gone into admin twice, Forget that Livi went into administration and were relegated to SFL3 for failing to provide assurances they would see out that season and last but not least forget Dunfermline dumped 100% of debt they had with a 0p in the pound CVA, it's only Rangers who were deemed guilty enough to be fined.

Very true, we have a situation where one wonders how Hearts are able to pay their bills and taxes while under administration. I know their fans have raised cash, but is it really enough to maintain the day-to-day running of a club for an entire season? Have their attendances suddenly got larger than in previous seasons? I don't believe so and any season book money must be log gone. So if extra cash has gone into the club where could it have come from?

[Tedtom 0]

After the stripping of titles case, I recall that Doncaster and his cronies were set on charging Rangers for the tribunal costs. The figure being banded about wa £500k. Another act of corruption. Did they pursue this or is this matter, still in dispute?

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

The liquidator sold all rights to this cash to CG & Co when they purchased the club, they then signed this away as part of the five way agreement. So it's a case of the money being with held from the club by the SFA/SPL. The problem arises if any shareholder or group of shareholders decide to challenge this in court on the grounds that the money was extorted from the club by way of refusing a football licence if we did not agree. If that can be proven than the five way agreement isn't worth the paper it has been leaked on as it would have been signed under duress and as such would be void.

I believe that as it was the people who voted us out of the league who directly benefited financially from this and that the whole scenario was corrupt. That's why I'd like to know exactly who received what. Had the SFA/SPL withheld the cash and then sent it back to the liquidators of the old parent company to help cover debts I doubt if there would have been any dissenting voices from within our support, but to pocket it for themselves when it was they who sat in judgement is just wrong no mater how you look at it. Let's look at it another way if you get fined the judge, jury and police don't share the cash out amongst themselves, if they did nobody would ever win a court case as it would be in the financial interests of the jury to find you guilty.

Excellent points

This needs to be looked at by a barrister

RFFF?

[JCDBigBear 10,824]

I am waiting on the findings of the police inquiry. After that, all shareholders in oldco should unite and consider obtaining legal advice on where they stand. A civil action against Whyte (if he has any assets), a civil action against the SFA & SPFL. A civil action against Collyer Bristow.

[CanadianBacon 2,088]

I am waiting on the findings of the police inquiry. After that, all shareholders in oldco should unite and consider obtaining legal advice on where they stand. A civil action against Whyte (if he has any assets), a civil action against the SFA & SPFL. A civil action against Collyer Bristow.

Devils Advocate here.

The SFA and Whyte....aye, go for it, but hasn't the new SPFL done away with the SPL? In other words there will be no SPL to go after. It was the SPL that screwed us. It is gone.

[JCDBigBear 10,824]

Devils Advocate here.

The SFA and Whyte....aye, go for it, but hasn't the new SPFL done away with the SPL? In other words there will be no SPL to go after. It was the SPL that screwed us. It is gone.

No the SPFL is the same company as the SPL, just a name change.

[Rapid6 77]

It all sounds promising but why no action, why has nobody else picked up or reported on it. Why are the likes of the SFA and SPFL not shitting themselves?

I hope everyone is right in what they are saying but I'm starting to lose hope that any of the action discussed will ever take place.

Is their anyone with the legal clout willing to take this on?

[TAFKA 545]

Good to have a thread to reflect like this and some great points already.

If the deal to buy the club is proven to be fraudulent (is there actually a case underway to determine this?), then will that automatically render subsequent events and transactions null and void? I don't think so. So presumably, that would mean either a raft of individual cases or a collective "class action" type case?

And where exactly are Ticketus and Whyte in terms of the money HE (not Rangers) borrowed? Are they still pursuing him?

[Bad Robot 21,148]

Why hasn't the five way agreement been leaked and does anyone think there could be anything within this document that could damage us ?

I'm not thinking if anything in particular but I can't understand why the actual contents of this document has been swept under the carpet by the club, the press and the fan groups or bloggers.

[danger ranger 922]

Why hasn't the five way agreement been leaked and does anyone think there could be anything within this document that could damage us ?

I'm not thinking if anything in particular but I can't understand why the actual contents of this document has been swept under the carpet by the club, the press and the fan groups or bloggers.

I believe there was a Confidentiality clause.

[eejay the dj 31,964]

There is no one at the club at present with an appetite to pursue this .

[delamonty 992]

Tou

its a good question but one unfortunately that would make no difference in my eyes, the corrupted cabal gained our funds as a consequence of their efforts to put us away for good, that was, for me, their only goal, plain and simple. gladly those plans fail failed as the thing these vermin will never understand is this, born a bluenose, live a bluenose, die a bluenose. a very proud moment sharing our stadium with so many like minded bears that first game back at ibrox. no surrender to the sfa.

But that's where your argument fails mate imho.

Why put us away for good.. that wasn't the plan. The plan was simple. Put us away for a few years to let the scum get CL fitba' (and money) every year. When we come back to the 'premier' league, we will still be weakened.. but the 'attraction will be back. And so will the TV money.

It was a 10 year plan on their part.. not a 'forever' plan

Just my opinion