Corruption - Facts and figures please.

[1690tamRFC 5,001]

If the police inquiry into Whytes takeover does indeed find that there was fraudulent goings on, you would think the club would be able to take the SFA/SPFL to the cleaners. It could come to a point that we were forced into administration illegally and the fall out of that would be huge. It would be the biggest sporting court case ever when you look at loss of assets (players) illegal fines, loss of European earnings and top flight status, the list is endless

[NixonRFC 1,310]

Why hasn't the five way agreement been leaked and does anyone think there could be anything within this document that could damage us ?

I'm not thinking if anything in particular but I can't understand why the actual contents of this document has been swept under the carpet by the club, the press and the fan groups or bloggers.

I think the reason the 5 way agreement hasn't been leaked is because it would damage us and damage those who run that mobs credibility among their own fanbase.

Everyone and their dog knew Rangers couldn't be lost to the Scottish game, Rangers were always going to exist whether it be inside Scottish Football or sonewhere else (probably England)

That would be disastrous for Scottish Football, the commercial value we bring to the game up here might be small fry compared to what EPL clubs get but its vital to any deal our association does, add to that the away fanbase that keeps most clubs heads above water then its not beyond the realms of possibility to assume favours were granted to keep us within the system.

Lawwell also knows a Scottish Football without Rangers means his clubs profile and attractiveness to those outside of Scotland would become less and less by each passing month.

This 5 way agreement was almost certainly bogus but it'd do absolutely no-one in our game any favours to disclose it, it'd be cutting your nose off to spite your face, from everyone concerned.

[Bad Robot 21,139]

Tou

But that's where your argument fails mate imho.

Why put us away for good.. that wasn't the plan. The plan was simple. Put us away for a few years to let the scum get CL fitba' (and money) every year. When we come back to the 'premier' league, we will still be weakened.. but the 'attraction will be back. And so will the TV money.

It was a 10 year plan on their part.. not a 'forever' plan

Just my opinion

Put us away for good and then say there is no competition which gives a reason for moving to England.

[Albertz 78 918]

Very true, we have a situation where one wonders how Hearts are able to pay their bills and taxes while under administration. I know their fans have raised cash, but is it really enough to maintain the day-to-day running of a club for an entire season? Have their attendances suddenly got larger than in previous seasons? I don't believe so and any season book money must be log gone. So if extra cash has gone into the club where could it have come from?

Any money Hearts had is all but gone now hence the reason for the rushed cva attempt next week. If they do pull it off they will be funded by fans direct debits for the rest of the season. Which raises the point are they a going concen and should they be given an sfa licence? If even 10% of these debits are canceled between now and the end of the season they will be trading while insolvent (again). Much like Dunfermline who have already admitted they don't have enough money to finish this season the sfa seem to look the other way when it's not Rangers

[Bad Robot 21,139]

I think the reason the 5 way agreement hasn't been leaked is because it would damage us and damage those who run that mobs credibility among their own fanbase.

Everyone and their dog knew Rangers couldn't be lost to the Scottish game, Rangers were always going to exist whether it be inside Scottish Football or sonewhere else (probably England)

That would be disastrous for Scottish Football, the commercial value we bring to the game up here might be small fry compared to what EPL clubs get but its vital to any deal our association does, add to that the away fanbase that keeps most clubs heads above water then its not beyond the realms of possibility to assume favours were granted to keep us within the system.

Lawwell also knows a Scottish Football without Rangers means his clubs profile and attractiveness to those outside of Scotland would become less and less by each passing month.

This 5 way agreement was almost certainly bogus but it'd do absolutely no-one in our game any favours to disclose it, it'd be cutting your nose off to spite your face, from everyone concerned.

Everything else seems to have been leaked so the contents must be pretty interesting. I'm thinking a court involved in any fraud case will want to see it.

[iang2911 423]

Everything else seems to have been leaked so the contents must be pretty interesting. I'm thinking a court involved in any fraud case will want to see it.

Has it not been leaked already? Or was that a fakes version

[Bad Robot 21,139]

Has it not been leaked already? Or was that a fakes version

I'm sure a draft version was leaked about removing titles.

[iang2911 423]

I'm sure a draft version was leaked about removing titles.

There was a version on scribd but has been removed. Although few others have.

It was a late draft though with title stripping removed. I had a copy somewhere but it has probably been deleted.

Seems a later version released by CF was removed by field fisher Waterhouse.

Can't trust anything from CF

[The Educator 1,572]

I think the reason the 5 way agreement hasn't been leaked is because it would damage us and damage those who run that mobs credibility among their own fanbase.

This 5 way agreement was almost certainly bogus but it'd do absolutely no-one in our game any favours to disclose it, it'd be cutting your nose off to spite your face, from everyone concerned.

Sorry mate, but I think that if there was anything damaging to Rangers in the 5-way it would have been leaked long before now. If there is anything damaging involving us it may be related to whether or not CG put the money that was withheld on the table for discussion. That would be a real kick in the teeth for our support when you consider his comments on this. Having said that again I think if that was the case that they would have leaked this to discredit him. There was a confidentiality clause inserted into the 5-way, but like the agreement itself if the document was signed under duress then it is worthless.

To date I think that the folk running the club have been busy with other matters to do anything about challenging the 5-way, indeed it may well be easier once most if not all of the major players in the purchase of the club have left the boardroom. One thing it will take is money, and that won't be there until after the current boardroom carry on is settled. I personally think King would be the guy who would be more likely to have this challenged as he has the money to fund it. That could well be why they don't want hi in charge at Ibrox.

One thing that must be looked at here is what would be a fight for the current shareholders in the club and what for the share holders who purchased shares under the old parent company. A challenge to the 5-way and any attempt to recoup the money that was withheld is something for the current shareholders to deal with. Any case that could be launched by the shareholders in the club before administration would be linked to Whyte, HMRC and LTSB.

[Ger77 742]

Playing Devil's Advocate here,

Is there a chance that as part of the 5 way agreement Rangers must not initiate legal proceedings against the league or SFA?

It wouldnt surprise me one little bit.

[The Educator 1,572]

Tou

But that's where your argument fails mate imho.

Why put us away for good.. that wasn't the plan. The plan was simple. Put us away for a few years to let the scum get CL fitba' (and money) every year. When we come back to the 'premier' league, we will still be weakened.. but the 'attraction will be back. And so will the TV money.

It was a 10 year plan on their part.. not a 'forever' plan

Just my opinion

Did they intend to kill us off? That's a complex one as it could be argued that both clubs have been interdependent on each other as they are in a small league with no other credible competition. Personally I think that one club wanted us dead and the others wanted us weakened, but still able to deliver them gate money twice a year.

Why would c****c want us dead if there was an interdependence in having both clubs competitive? The fact is the CL has warped European football, to the point where it is almost unrecognisable. I honestly believe that the people who are currently in control at c****c have a belief that they can survive in a league dominated by one club. I agree that their plan was long term, and it was based on CL revenue and the on going attraction to sponsors that a yearly appearance in the competition proper would bring. They aren't too bothered about a drop in the attendances at league games and I'll go into that in a moment. They did eye the TV market for their club as possible very profitable revenue earner for the future along with the merchandising of what they saw as a club who would be in the CL year on year. A possible bonus to this may have been the idea that as the only big club left in Scotland they would be invited to join any reconstruction of the EPL that may happen in the future to maintain TV interest around the globe. It may have impacted on their CL plans, but would come with a £60m cheque at the start of each season, not bad compensation.

Why would they not be bothered by a drop in league attendances, this can be split into three.

1) They would still sell season books as it could be linked to getting access to CL tickets

2) The CL revenue would more than cover the amount lost through lower league attendances

3) I firmly believe that a major part of their plan would be lucrative league games played out side of Scotland, for the most part Dublin and to a lesser extent Boston or New York. The latter idea would be sold as a means of getting publicity/coverage for Scottish football. This would generate a hell of a lot of cash in merchandising.

The latter of these three I have been warning against for about three or four years amongst friends and family only to be told it was nonsense, yet since the start of the season we have seen being put forward for discussion. So far UEFA have said no to the CL qualifier being played outside Scotland, but they probably wouldn't step in regarding the league game idea. As I said at the beginning of this post this is a long term plan and a lot is based on the setting of and sighting of precedents and it all depends on either there being no Rangers or one so weak that it would make no difference.

Like all grandiose plans they can be derailed very easily. They really misjudged how the Rangers fans would react to being in the lower leagues, they thought our attendances would collapse after half a season in the bottom tier, how wrong they were. They also didn't believe elements of our support would investigate what has been going on behind the scenes of the whole situation including their support from GCC, the C-op bank amongst other things. I really don't think they bargained for the amount of money going into the other national leagues which has made the yearly qualification for the CL much more difficult.

Since we dropped out of the top tier they have won two titles (predictable), but they still haven't won the treble, they have had one excellent year in the CL, but this time it could end without the fall back of a Europa League place. So their master plan isn't exactly going as they would like and in around 18 months time we will be back in the top tier again.

[The Educator 1,572]

Playing Devil's Advocate here,

Is there a chance that as part of the 5 way agreement Rangers must not initiate legal proceedings against the league or SFA?

It wouldn't surprise me one little bit.

This was certainly in the versions that have been leaked, however like the confidentiality clause it would mean nothing if the agreement was judged to have been signed under duress.

[NixonRFC 1,310]

Sorry mate, but I think that if there was anything damaging to Rangers in the 5-way it would have been leaked long before now. If there is anything damaging involving us it may be related to whether or not CG put the money that was withheld on the table for discussion. That would be a real kick in the teeth for our support when you consider his comments on this. Having said that again I think if that was the case that they would have leaked this to discredit him. There was a confidentiality clause inserted into the 5-way, but like the agreement itself if the document was signed under duress then it is worthless.

To date I think that the folk running the club have been busy with other matters to do anything about challenging the 5-way, indeed it may well be easier once most if not all of the major players in the purchase of the club have left the boardroom. One thing it will take is money, and that won't be there until after the current boardroom carry on is settled. I personally think King would be the guy who would be more likely to have this challenged as he has the money to fund it. That could well be why they don't want hi in charge at Ibrox.

One thing that must be looked at here is what would be a fight for the current shareholders in the club and what for the share holders who purchased shares under the old parent company. A challenge to the 5-way and any attempt to recoup the money that was withheld is something for the current shareholders to deal with. Any case that could be launched by the shareholders in the club before administration would be linked to Whyte, HMRC and LTSB.

I can understand the apprehension, of course but if and its a big if but if there was something potentially damaging to Rangers in this 5 way agreement then I don't see how or why it would be leaked, what would be the point in the agreement if those in charge were just going to leak it and make themselves out to be utterly clueless, if this agreement didnt suit all concerned and by that I say Rangers the then SPL and the Tims then I just don't think it would have happened, Or at the very least someone would have found it unfair.

The fact that everyone in a position of power who know whats in this agreement actually agreed to it yet want to keep it confidential should tell us all that it must be potentially damaging for everyone if aired and potentially beneficial for everyone if kept confidential.

[The Dude 20,026]

Why hasn't the five way agreement been leaked and does anyone think there could be anything within this document that could damage us ?

I'm not thinking if anything in particular but I can't understand why the actual contents of this document has been swept under the carpet by the club, the press and the fan groups or bloggers.

It was leaked months ago. It showed we could appeal it, despite Green insisting we couldn't.

[The Dude 20,026]

This was certainly in the versions that have been leaked, however like the confidentiality clause it would mean nothing if the agreement was judged to have been signed under duress.

Aye, but Green said we couldn't appeal it, despite the document stating we could go to the CAS. There was no duress.

[The Educator 1,572]

Aye, but Green said we couldn't appeal it, despite the document stating we could go to the CAS. There was no duress.

If we had that we were going to do that there is every chance they would not have allowed a licence. The fact that there would have been no licence unless we signed was in itself duress.

[Corky True Legend 2,682]

Why do you think the dhims board doesn't want a EUFA investigation into the whole sorry affair? Any investigation would surely examine the 5-way agreement and it would probably then enter the public domain. Then the whole world would see the extent of the corruption in Scottish football in general and Pathetic fc of Glasgow in particular.