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calgary
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Can anyone advice me ?

After a discussion last night about Rangers owing people money,I was under the impression when David Murray sold up to that ratbag, we were

only in debt to the bank for approx £18 million.

People are saying to me it was a lot more. I dont think so.

We had the wee tax bill also approx £2.5 million, that we already agree to pay.

At the time other clubs in Scotland owed proportionately more to their bankers.

We all know what happened to us should never have happened.

thanks in advanced to any answers.

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Can anyone advice me ?

After a discussion last night about Rangers owing people money,I was under the impression when David Murray sold up to that ratbag, we were

only in debt to the bank for approx £18 million.

People are saying to me it was a lot more. I dont think so.

We had the wee tax bill also approx £2.5 million, that we already agree to pay.

At the time other clubs in Scotland owed proportionately more to their bankers.

We all know what happened to us should never have happened.

thanks in advanced to any answers.

When the CVA was rejected we had a debt of around 6 or 7 million pounds in PAYE, an unclear relatively small figure from football debts (that were paid a few months later) and a relatively small sum to small creditors (which unfortunately mostly went unpaid) ,the lloyds debt was paid off with our season ticket revenue deal with ticketus when Craig Whyte took over.

We were liquidated with figures of 100 million being branded about because of the big tax case (clearly some people took this as fact that we would lose the case),but in effect we were liquidated with a debt that was around 25% of our annual turnover.

Absolutely incredible and disgusting.

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Can anyone advice me ?

After a discussion last night about Rangers owing people money,I was under the impression when David Murray sold up to that ratbag, we were

only in debt to the bank for approx £18 million.

People are saying to me it was a lot more. I dont think so.

We had the wee tax bill also approx £2.5 million, that we already agree to pay.

At the time other clubs in Scotland owed proportionately more to their bankers.

We all know what happened to us should never have happened.

thanks in advanced to any answers.

That was paid off with the ticketus money was it not?

The PAYE and small creditors I believe were the only ones not to get paid? All footballing debts were paid or have been promised to be paid.

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There were many small business owners that were left unpaid when we went into liquidation. Those ate the people I feel sorry for that were screwed over by Whyte.

Really? Who? Because I know for a fact the vast majority of 'small business' creditors were reimbursed or compensated....many fans lost out on shares, debenture seats etc but you are peddaling a myth the Tims love there....next you will be telling us the army and schools didn't get supplies because of us?

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Can anyone advice me ?

After a discussion last night about Rangers owing people money,I was under the impression when David Murray sold up to that ratbag, we were

only in debt to the bank for approx £18 million.

People are saying to me it was a lot more. I dont think so.

We had the wee tax bill also approx £2.5 million, that we already agree to pay.

At the time other clubs in Scotland owed proportionately more to their bankers.

We all know what happened to us should never have happened.

thanks in advanced to any answers.

There would have been trade creditors owed when we changed hands which would have been £2m - £3m. There is also the debate over the big tax case bill/assessment which had been received but was under dispute at the time.

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We owed 55m when administration was called

27m to Ticketus

14m to HMRC

8m to bond holders

5m to trade creditors (inc football debts)

And a bit on finance leases

He's asking about when DM sold to Whyte though.

As far as I remember, we owed Lloyds £18m, the small tax case and a small amount (relatively) to unsecured creditors. Well under £25m. The inflated figures include the 'debt' of the big tax case, which cannot be counted as HMRC lost that case.

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We owed 55m when administration was called

27m to Ticketus

14m to HMRC

8m to bond holders

5m to trade creditors (inc football debts)

And a bit on finance leases

Ticketus was 16 million and the bond holders was it not 8 million they lost rather than were owed?

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Ticketus was 16 million and the bond holders was it not 8 million they lost rather than were owed?

I think the ticketus was defo 27m.

The bond holders is a funny one as there was no provision or condition to ever pay them a penny back. The only reason the "debt" crystalised was because of administration funnily enough. Technically, im with you in that the bond holders lost money rather than being owed money. (tu)

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A load of small creditors where payer off by some fans on here fact.

Also some where payer off by the RFFF fact.

Tell them that and we where liquidated only on the basis of the 14 mil small Tax Case.

They assumed we where guilty and there is your problem.

There was a list orf small creditors whom where payer in this forum I am sure.

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I think the ticketus was defo 27m.

The bond holders is a funny one as there was no provision or condition to ever pay them a penny back. The only reason the "debt" crystalised was because of administration funnily enough. Technically, im with you in that the bond holders lost money rather than being owed money. (tu)

Our Ticketus debt was always zero though it was secured in Whytes.name.

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A load of small creditors where payer off by some fans on here fact.

Also some where payer off by the RFFF fact.

Tell them that and we where liquidated only on the basis of the 14 mil small Tax Case.

They assumed we where guilty and there is your problem.

There was a list orf small creditors whom where payer in this forum I am sure.

Ssssshhhhhh you aren't allowed to tell the truth mind

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At the time footballing debt was £2.5M roughly but ironically we were owed about £3.5M in football revenue. The small creditors, most or all, were paid as others have said by a combination of people but mostly the fans.

Still don't know of anyone going out of business because they were owed money from Rangers as has been claimed.

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A load of small creditors where payer off by some fans on here fact.

Also some where payer off by the RFFF fact.

Tell them that and we were put in to administration only on the basis of the 14 mil small Tax Case.

They assumed we where guilty and there is your problem.

There was a list orf small creditors whom where payer in this forum I am sure.

Fixed that.

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He's asking about when Adam sold to Whyte though.

As far as I remember, we owed Lloyds £18m, the small tax case and a small amount (relatively) to unsecured creditors. Well under £25m. The inflated figures include the 'debt' of the big tax case, which cannot be counted as HMRC lost that case.

Sorry was being dense and responding on my iphone. Fail.

As we were a going concern, any ongoing debts would have been taken up by Whyte, so the only external debt due was the bank loan to Lloyds of £18m and the Wee Tax Case of £2.5m.

We would have trade creditors, football creditors, finance leases but these were not due at the time of sale. Bond holders were only due money back on administration not in the normal course of trade. We had no overdraft as the sale was done in June after season ticket money and the board had already been driving to eliminate this.

Administration was entirely avoidable except for the actions of HMRC. They played hardball and stalled and delayed and fought instead of coming to an arrangement. In the end they lost their case, but the damage had been done as our bankers refused to support us and no other bank would lend with the risk that was over us.

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Our Ticketus debt was always zero though it was secured in Whytes.name.

A debt and security are 2 different things.

Its like a parent being a guarantor for their kid buying a car or renting a house. The debt is in the kids name, but is something goes wrong then its the parent they go after. This in essence is what happened with Ticketus from the beginning.

Having said that, there is still the ongoing investigation into the purchase which muddies the waters. But it was a debt on our books from the off which was the question. (tu)

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I agree with most that it was about 18-20M and I believe it was previously agreed that we would pay back about 1M a season.

I also believe we were owed more than what we owed for transfers.

The problem was we were running at a 10M loss a year. 45 going out with only 35 coming in if we never made the CL group stages. I'm sure that's about accurate.

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A debt and security are 2 different things.

Its like a parent being a guarantor for their kid buying a car or renting a house. The debt is in the kids name, but is something goes wrong then its the parent they go after. This in essence is what happened with Ticketus from the beginning.

Having said that, there is still the ongoing investigation into the purchase which muddies the waters. But it was a debt on our books from the off which was the question. (tu)

I always thought it was Whytes debt what will happen when he is found guilty then?

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