The Minority Report

[Corky True Legend 2,682]

According to the latest census, there are now more Jedis than Free Church members. May the force be with you.

[NamibianBear 1,851]

Glasgow is the home of football and also home to both Scottish football associations, being the SFA and more recently the newly formed and highly controversial SFPL. Football in this city has been and always will be one of the main talking points amongst the city’s 593,245 residents.

Scotland as a whole has approximately 5, 295,403 residents (2011 Census) and within this figure 32.4% (1,717,871) of the population declared themselves as members of the Church of Scotland (COS) with 15.9% declaring themselves as Roman Catholic (841,053).

To put this in perspective, the 2001 census states that 42.2% (2,146,251) of the population were COS compared to 15.88% (803,732) who said they were RC.

Within a ten year period, the COS have lost around 20% (428,380) of their flock with the RC church increasing around 5% (38,237) across Scotland. Who says religious schools don’t work and maybe it’s time for the COS to put this back on the table.

In Glasgow there is a different picture and the city being the largest populated in Scotland naturally takes the lead in all things Scottish which includes the Media, Government, Judiciary, Banking, Industry, Sports and Education to name but a few.

One question our fans keep asking is why is there so much of an imbalance within all these areas especially as there is around a RC minority of around 16%. This myth keeps getting perpetuated and I believe this is giving us a head in the sand mentality.

Yes, they are a minority overall in Scotland but in Glasgow it is far from the truth and I do believe there has been a concerted effort from persons of the RC religion to destroy our club and this has come from all areas within our society within the last two years.

In Glasgow the 2001 census states that the city had approximately 171,700 people declaring themselves as COS with around 168,896 declaring themselves as RC. A mere difference of around 3000 in favour of the COS.

The 2011 census now has 137,039 persons declaring themselves as COS with around 161,9955 as RC. There is now 24,000 more RC’s in Glasgow than there are COS and across Scotland this figure is growing.

The World is becoming more secular.

It's the drift of history.

Anyone believing we'll all be RC's in twenty years time needs to have a good look at themselves.

I mean c'mon.

Ok to nitpick your argument, 20% of COS have stopped declaring themselves to be COS. So what do they go on to declare themselves as? To use the argument that they are taking over when you show a 0.02% rise in the RC (across Scotland) in 10 years is bit much? Glasgow being split almost 50/50 over the last 10 years proves nothing either.

I think the COS should be actually asking themselves where the people are going to (doubtful in the extreme if you think they are all converting to RC).

I also think that people should churches should stop blaming football for its woes. I think if you look across the entire globe that you will see religion and religious followers slowly diminishing and that has nothing to do with football. Isn't Islam the fastest growing religion?

Whatever the words most people write or say, however, will never change someones deep down beliefs and that, unfortunately, is a shame. Some people cannot see the wood for the trees. Try having an intellectual conversation on Darwinism with someone who is a deep believer? There is nothing you can say or do to pursuade them that maybe Darwin was right? "Course the atheist (he was a believer too by the way) isn't right! Says so in the Bible".

So what does religion have to do with football? Nothing. Is there a place within Rangers for Protestants? Of course there is. Same as there should be a place for RC's if they want it. Or Muslims. Or even the Welsh. Should religion run football? No.

We live in a democracy. You are entitled, by law, to belief whatever you want to and should not be forcing your opinions on others. No church tells you to force others to change their beliefs. Reasoned argument is always the best way.

Personally I hate the RC sect for the crimes they have committed (and are still) since they first evolved out of other religions, and do it all in the name of the one person that is supposed to tolerate all people. But that's my opinion (I was born a Proddy)! The RC's are entitled to be around as much as any Protestant is but no one should be above the law.

All religions spread about. If the (practicing) Protestants don't like the current makeup of (for example) the City Council of Glasgow, go vote your own guys in at the next set of elections and spread The Word and try and recruit your own followers....

[CraigG 56]

I have nothing against homosexuals but really cannot understand the church stance on this - its watering down scripture and giving into the promiscuity of the modern age.

Bollocks. Do you completely follow scripture then? Do you think that a woman who commits adultery should be stoned to death? Or do you just cherrypick the bits that you agree with? I'm an Anglican and I think the so-called Bible believers put more people off church than anything else. If you want reasons why church attendance is falling, look at yourself.

These statistics have hothing to do with a RC takeover, more to do with the rise of secularism, which in part is caused by the unattractiveness of fundamentalists.

[Muirheadbear 1,483]

There are two things to consider here.

Firstly, there is the apathy of the 'Protestant population'. Many don't seem to care and bury their heads in the sand to the recent goings on.

There is also much less faith in God in a most of 'proddies' in recent years and this as not helped. Many on this forum have described themselves as Athiest.

Secondly, however, is that the RC church is in continual crisis. Its flock is continually decreasing mainly due to their constant handling over child abuse cases. Mix that with the recent utter hypocrisy of Cardinal O'Brien and you have an organisation totally devoid of any respectability.

Threat from the Romans? Not for me.

[william tor10 23]

ITS TRUE TO SAY KIRK DOSE NO HAVE ANY TIME OF THE ORANGE ORDER WE AND I SPEAK AS A BROTHER IN THE ORDER WE ARE BEING FORCED MORE DOWN THE EVANGELICAL ROUTE AS THEY ARE THE ONLY CHURCHES THAT SEEM TO WANT TO CARRY THE FAITH FORWARD WE R IN THE UP NUMBER HAVE GROWN THE THE LAST TEN YEARS MOST MALE LODGES HAVE GROWN I FOR ONE THINK WE R THE ONLY THING LEFT PUSHING OOR FAITH. PS BAND R ON THE UP IN A VERY BIG WAY AS WELL SO ITS NOT ALL BAD

[william tor10 23]

ALSO WE HAVE AN SNP GOV THAT IS ALMOST 70PERCENT RC THAT IS A FACT IF THE GET THE VOTE WERE NOT ONLY AS COS BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY GERS FANS WE WILL BE WELL AND TRULY FUCKED COS THEY AS A POLITICAL PARTY HATE OOR GREAT CLUB U JUST HAVE TO LOOK AT FAT ALEC WHAT DID HE DO FOR US WHEN WE HAD OOR PROBS ILL TELL U NOT A THING

[Bothwellbear 1,392]

ALSO WE HAVE AN SNP GOV THAT IS ALMOST 70PERCENT RC THAT IS A FACT IF THE GET THE VOTE WERE NOT ONLY AS COS BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY GERS FANS WE WILL BE WELL AND TRULY FUCKED COS THEY AS A POLITICAL PARTY HATE OOR GREAT CLUB U JUST HAVE TO LOOK AT FAT ALEC WHAT DID HE DO FOR US WHEN WE HAD OOR PROBS ILL TELL U NOT A THING

That is impossible to read in caps. Full stops and commas help as well.

[bluedart1952 1,349]

Was it not Winning who a few years ago asserted Scotland would be a Catholic country in about 20 years from the time of his statement ?

It was, and he is right, because they breed quicker than rabbits due to the no contraception philosophy of said church. I wonder if myxomatosis would work on them seeing they breed like rabbits. :7325:

[sirwattiesmith 7]

Things like this mean absolutely nothing to me when it comes to Rangers. Rangers may have been protestant in the past but times have and still are changing. I'm an atheist and tbh I would't care if the whole of Scotland were RC, or COS or muslim or welsh as someone humorously added in.

Seriously as a club we need to move on from all this. We should move on as quick as possible and make this club a modern all accepting institution, not just within the club as it is now but within the fan base....which I'm afraid is not (I was told to stay away from Ibrox because I'm going to vote yes).

Imagine the respect Rangers would have if we moved away from all of this while the beasts from the east continue with their poppy booing, sectarian and terrorist supporting ways. Lose this "Rangers fans are loyalists, protestants and RC haters" tag and we would only benefit. Keep it and we will continue to be looked down upon by the rest of scottish society. I know we shouldn't care...but we should want was it is best for our club.

[eejay the dj 31,964]

People can argue .debate on this subject till they are blue in the face .Its just simply corruption in a large scale .Had a conversation with a diplomat from the hague some time ago .He confirmed that there are different forms of corruption going on the world but he confirmed that Scotland was very high up on the corruption scale .Anyone who thinks differently IMO has their arrogant head stuffed in the sand :-)

[AllyDawson72 213]

so you don't really care if Scotland becomes predominantly Catholic then?

As that's the way it's going.

What do you want people to do? Take up arms? I would argue less and less people are religious and have cottoned on its a pile of shite.

[Westwood Bear 61]

Sirwattiesmith -

I really don't think you have any idea what it would be like living in a Muslim country (I take it you don't drink for example) or if RC having your children indoctrinated at school and brainwashed thereafter.

[NamibianBear 1,851]

so you don't really care if Scotland becomes predominantly Catholic then?

As that's the way it's going.

According to the figures quoted in the OP, the amount of RC has risen from 15.88% in 2001 to 15.9% in 2011. With those figures, I hardly think " becoming predominately Catholic" is a fair statement? A 0.02% rise over 10 years should not be a worry to anyone. If you believe that those in power (local, regional or countrywide) are becoming more RC heavy, get off your ass at the next election and vote for non RC candidates if you feel that way. If you fail to vote, you can't moan about who gets in.

[Bad Robot 21,141]

Glasgow is the home of football and also home to both Scottish football associations, being the SFA and more recently the newly formed and highly controversial SFPL. Football in this city has been and always will be one of the main talking points amongst the city’s 593,245 residents.

Scotland as a whole has approximately 5, 295,403 residents (2011 Census) and within this figure 32.4% (1,717,871) of the population declared themselves as members of the Church of Scotland (COS) with 15.9% declaring themselves as Roman Catholic (841,053).

To put this in perspective, the 2001 census states that 42.2% (2,146,251) of the population were COS compared to 15.88% (803,732) who said they were RC.

Within a ten year period, the COS have lost around 20% (428,380) of their flock with the RC church increasing around 5% (38,237) across Scotland. Who says religious schools don’t work and maybe it’s time for the COS to put this back on the table.

In Glasgow there is a different picture and the city being the largest populated in Scotland naturally takes the lead in all things Scottish which includes the Media, Government, Judiciary, Banking, Industry, Sports and Education to name but a few.

One question our fans keep asking is why is there so much of an imbalance within all these areas especially as there is around a RC minority of around 16%. This myth keeps getting perpetuated and I believe this is giving us a head in the sand mentality.

Yes, they are a minority overall in Scotland but in Glasgow it is far from the truth and I do believe there has been a concerted effort from persons of the RC religion to destroy our club and this has come from all areas within our society within the last two years.

In Glasgow the 2001 census states that the city had approximately 171,700 people declaring themselves as COS with around 168,896 declaring themselves as RC. A mere difference of around 3000 in favour of the COS.

The 2011 census now has 137,039 persons declaring themselves as COS with around 161,9955 as RC. There is now 24,000 more RC’s in Glasgow than there are COS and across Scotland this figure is growing.

Ok to nitpick your argument, 20% of COS have stopped declaring themselves to be COS. So what do they go on to declare themselves as? To use the argument that they are taking over when you show a 0.02% rise in the RC (across Scotland) in 10 years is bit much? Glasgow being split almost 50/50 over the last 10 years proves nothing either.

I think the COS should be actually asking themselves where the people are going to (doubtful in the extreme if you think they are all converting to RC).

I also think that people should churches should stop blaming football for its woes. I think if you look across the entire globe that you will see religion and religious followers slowly diminishing and that has nothing to do with football. Isn't Islam the fastest growing religion?

Whatever the words most people write or say, however, will never change someones deep down beliefs and that, unfortunately, is a shame. Some people cannot see the wood for the trees. Try having an intellectual conversation on Darwinism with someone who is a deep believer? There is nothing you can say or do to pursuade them that maybe Darwin was right? "Course the atheist (he was a believer too by the way) isn't right! Says so in the Bible".

So what does religion have to do with football? Nothing. Is there a place within Rangers for Protestants? Of course there is. Same as there should be a place for RC's if they want it. Or Muslims. Or even the Welsh. Should religion run football? No.

We live in a democracy. You are entitled, by law, to belief whatever you want to and should not be forcing your opinions on others. No church tells you to force others to change their beliefs. Reasoned argument is always the best way.

Personally I hate the RC sect for the crimes they have committed (and are still) since they first evolved out of other religions, and do it all in the name of the one person that is supposed to tolerate all people. But that's my opinion (I was born a Proddy)! The RC's are entitled to be around as much as any Protestant is but no one should be above the law.

All religions spread about. If the (practicing) Protestants don't like the current makeup of (for example) the City Council of Glasgow, go vote your own guys in at the next set of elections and spread The Word and try and recruit your own followers....

The article was focusing on how the overall minority have congregated within the one area and are basically running the country to their own ends. This I believe has been detriment to our club over the last two years and spells out the possible future of this country.

The RC church are masters of playing the long game and on first viewing a small rise can look pretty insignificant. This small rise compared to the vast drop in the COS is a worrying trend.

Another purpose of this was to get people to take their heads out the sand and do something constructively and I agree a vote is one step that people can and should be taking.

[topgoalie 637]

I write this in regards to the changing religious demographics within Scotland and in particularly Glasgow and the effect this is happening on our club. I write mainly about Glasgow as I believe we are the epicentre of Scottish football and home to Scotland’s most successful club, The Rangers.

Glasgow is also home to another club who are Scotland’s secret shame with a history of abuse and cover ups on all fronts but taking both clubs together we have one of the greatest, oldest and most passionate club games in the world and in most parts, this is down to religion.

Rangers are a club of many faiths but our heritage and fan base are mainly Protestant and I make no apologies for that and hope it stays that way a long time after I’m gone.

Glasgow is the home of football and also home to both Scottish football associations, being the SFA and more recently the newly formed and highly controversial SFPL. Football in this city has been and always will be one of the main talking points amongst the city’s 593,245 residents.

Scotland as a whole has approximately 5, 295,403 residents (2011 Census) and within this figure 32.4% (1,717,871) of the population declared themselves as members of the Church of Scotland (COS) with 15.9% declaring themselves as Roman Catholic (841,053).

To put this in perspective, the 2001 census states that 42.2% (2,146,251) of the population were COS compared to 15.88% (803,732) who said they were RC.

Within a ten year period, the COS have lost around 20% (428,380) of their flock with the RC church increasing around 5% (38,237) across Scotland. Who says religious schools don’t work and maybe it’s time for the COS to put this back on the table.

In Glasgow there is a different picture and the city being the largest populated in Scotland naturally takes the lead in all things Scottish which includes the Media, Government, Judiciary, Banking, Industry, Sports and Education to name but a few.

One question our fans keep asking is why is there so much of an imbalance within all these areas especially as there is around a RC minority of around 16%. This myth keeps getting perpetuated and I believe this is giving us a head in the sand mentality.

Yes, they are a minority overall in Scotland but in Glasgow it is far from the truth and I do believe there has been a concerted effort from persons of the RC religion to destroy our club and this has come from all areas within our society within the last two years.

In Glasgow the 2001 census states that the city had approximately 171,700 people declaring themselves as COS with around 168,896 declaring themselves as RC. A mere difference of around 3000 in favour of the COS.

The 2011 census now has 137,039 persons declaring themselves as COS with around 161,9955 as RC. There is now 24,000 more RC’s in Glasgow than there are COS and across Scotland this figure is growing.

As seen all across the world and through the passage of time this religion gets itself into power and then abuses that power.

I simply believe our club have been the target of this abuse of power and it stems from the one religion and for the most from one club.

I need to say that I no longer fear for our club as I believe we are on our way back and we will have our vengeance on the park as the cream always rises.

However, I do fear for our country as we are slowly but surely being infected by this parasitic religion. A religion where no one thinks for themselves and this cannot be good for the long term good of our country.

John Knox would be appalled the way we seem to be capitulating while the leaders of the COS do or say nothing. The great man is currently buried under a car parking space and maybe that tells its own story.

Times have been a changing steadily over the years,but they figures make for frightening reading In my part of the world there are more people from the west incoming due to inferior house prices and easy access to work,ie rail links etc.Coming to my point,most seem to be from a Sellic persuation believe me....

[Inigo 32,526]

The sooner Scotland is free of religion the better. Religion stunts human progress by encouraging people to 'believe' rather than seek answers. The OP said that we are being infected by a religion where nobody thinks for themselves. Isn't that what all religions encourage? Are Protestants encouraged to think for themselves or believe what's in the bible? It's some trick religion has pulled on a supposedly intelligent species; having them adopt the idea of 'faith' or 'belief' based on a book or on teachings full of nonsense, some of which is no less raving than Scientology (it's just that we've been force fed it and brainwashed by it for so many hundreds of years now that it doesn't seem as ridiculous - I suspect that if some of Christianities beliefs were introduced today they would be sniggered at the same way Scientology is).

The C of S is losing out to Atheism and Agnosticism. Catholicism is too, but perhaps less so as a result of schooling and more intense indoctrination. Catholics, or anyone else, who are the victim of this should be pitied.

[MVRanger 2,604]

Spot on Inigo.

The decline of all these Jewish sub-sects (Catholicism / Reformed Catholicism or Protestantism or whether you want to call it ) is a sign of progress and should be cheered to the rafters.

It defeats me why the remaining rump of Believers on both "sides" don't amalgamate and settle their petty doctrinal squabbles over Wafers / Immaculate conceptions etc. as they really have more more in common with each other than those who have left this childish nonsense behind.

[Jeff crap in the head 120]

The sooner Scotland is free of religion the better. Religion stunts human progress by encouraging people to 'believe' rather than seek answers. The OP said that we are being infected by a religion where nobody thinks for themselves. Isn't that what all religions encourage? Are Protestants encouraged to think for themselves or believe what's in the bible? It's some trick religion has pulled on a supposedly intelligent species; having them adopt the idea of 'faith' or 'belief' based on a book or on teachings full of nonsense, some of which is no less raving than Scientology (it's just that we've been force fed it and brainwashed by it for so many hundreds of years now that it doesn't seem as ridiculous - I suspect that if some of Christianities beliefs were introduced today they would be sniggered at the same way Scientology is).

The C of S is losing out to Atheism and Agnosticism. Catholicism is too, but perhaps less so as a result of schooling and more intense indoctrination. Catholics, or anyone else, who are the victim of this should be pitied.

The answer to that is yes.

[Inigo 32,526]

The answer to that is yes.

Not in any church I've been to.

[graeme_4 34,366]

Not in any church I've been to.

No religion does.

Any religion relies completely on 'belief' or 'faith'.

The fact that the premise for most religions is a variation on a big guy in the sky creating us speaks volumes.

[Inigo 32,526]

No religion does.

Any religion relies completely on 'belief' or 'faith'.

The fact that the premise for most religions is a variation on a big guy in the sky creating us speaks volumes.

Indeed.

[crackedactor 157]

I remember seeing the figures that 14% of the population experienced 40% of the "sectarian" attacks. This was used to highlight anti-catholic bigotry.

Another way of looking at that is that 14% of the population are responsible for 60% of the sectarian attacks. That is a headline you will never see.

[bluechip 359]

Looks like we'll need to go forth and multiply, sharpish.

[sirwattiesmith 7]

Sirwattiesmith -

I really don't think you have any idea what it would be like living in a Muslim country (I take it you don't drink for example) or if RC having your children indoctrinated at school and brainwashed thereafter.

Yup you got me... that would be horrendous. Made a wee error including muslim because the Quran is simply destructive when followed by certain individuals. Nothing against the majority who abide by it peacefully and sensibly.

Hmmm, to be honest I really don't think the schools "brain wash" its pupils. I once knew someone who got moved to a catholic school and he didn't become "brainwashed". Was much they same as he always had been and he attended for years.

Anyways that school system is slowly but surely breaking up, I know of two schools merging not far from where I used to live...one catholic and one protestant. Simply put I really don't think the younger generation care as much about all that in comparison to anyone over the age of 30. Its dying out. All religion, RC,COS etc etc is in my opinion dying in the UK. Those members figures quoted by the various organisations are in my opinion inflated in the extreme. Many people tick a box not really thinking about what it means... just that they "come from a RC or COS family"

To add in a last point... slightly unrelated and pointless but there is a street but 5 minutes away from me right now and it has 5 churches scattered on it or very close to it. Of the 5 one is up for sale by COS for residential or commercial purposes, one is being developed into an existing pub, one is now a nightclub, one is now a resturant/pub and one is still in use as a church.

I feel that because religion is dying in the UK, this fear of any one group taking over is OTT.