RFC55 108,804 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Killed innocent people though. One mans terrorist another mans freedom fighter.Wooooooooosh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalvinC 1,414 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Wooooooooosh Haha nearly got you there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieG54 812 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Was he no a supporter of the IRA? Tims will be getting the season postponed and a trip off to Johannesburg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
folkestoneger 8,132 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 There are two points here, the one around the hypocrisy of the SPFL and country in general expecting this when it was not enforced for Remembrance is absolutely disgraceful.The people on here who are talking about Mandela in such a negative way may want to consider just how much they would enjoy a South African football fan giving it large about Northern Irish politics.Trying to take a 'Rangers' view on Mandela is mentally inept and would make the club look ridiculous if the fans did so, luckily a handful of nutters on here will fade into the crowd."Rangers" view has fuck all to do with it. That is my view of Mandella and nobody elses. A terrorist is a terrorist. I dont give a toss what justification he thinks he had. Every Palestinian or similar says the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue_Nose 10 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Cos he's a terrorist scum bagI assume you know what south african apartheid is? If he is a terrorist, how would you describe the south african governments of the day? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eosmhdo 1,879 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I assume you know what south african apartheid is? If he is a terrorist, how would you describe the south african governments of the day?Caucasian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Moriarty 70 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 This is one mindfuck of a thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essandoh 21,207 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I assume you know what south african apartheid is?If he is a terrorist, how would you describe the south african governments of the day?I don't think that's the issue.You can't simply ignore the evils of Mandela's earlier involvement in terrorist activity just because he was fighting against an evil himself i.e. the apartheid government of South Africa during that period.His engagement in the terrorist actions calculated and imposed by the aggressive wing of the ANC isn't at question. He admitted to it at his trial. Nor is it the sole factor, for me personally, that makes this suggested silence/applause an incredibly controversial issue. His time as President, after his release from prison, and much after the period of his life in discussion, was hardly a tenure which supported his portrayal as an African saint of equality and justice.He publicly supported two of the most prominent and vicious dictatorial leaders of the 20th century in Muammar Gaddafi and Suharto in Indonesia. In fact, he awarded them both two of the highest South African honours available. Do we just choose to ignore that when we're judging his overall character? We can't. No semi-intelligent being can. Amnesty International refused his appeal to be recognised as a 'prisoner of conscience' - surely that raises your suspicions enough to at least acknowledge that the guy's past was in no means pardoned by the reputation gained in his later life? Phil and 1st_Jan_1994 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ger77 742 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I hate this minutes applause disrespect.We should either do a minutes silence or nothing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyren 601 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 If i was in the ground at the time and it was a mins silence , then id respect it, But i certainly wont be taking part in any applause carry on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
folkestoneger 8,132 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I assume you know what south african apartheid is? If he is a terrorist, how would you describe the south african governments of the day?The apartheid system was utterly wrong but so was the virtual apartheid in parts of the USA and I don't recall Martin Luther King bombing anyone. That is the difference in how I view these men.He was a terrorist plain and simple. What he did in later life may have in some way redeemed him in some minds but not everyones Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue_Nose 10 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I'm shocked and a bit disappointed with some of the comments in here. I do suggest you try looking into the history of apartheid and then see why the people took the actions they felt necessary. Not condemning innocent people being killed, but i can understand why the black people had reached breaking point within the country. how these people had been treated for simply having a different colour of skin was a disgrace, and i'd argue the governments had acted far, far worse than any of the terrorists at the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue_Nose 10 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 He was a terrorist plain and simple. It really isn't just plain and simple radlord 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essandoh 21,207 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I'm shocked and a bit disappointed with some of the comments in here. I do suggest you try looking into the history of apartheid and then see why the people took the actions they felt necessary.Not condemning innocent people being killed, but i can understand why the black people had reached breaking point within the country. how these people had been treated for simply having a different colour of skin was a disgrace, and i'd argue the governments had acted far, far worse than any of the terrorists at the time.But only looking at the actions of the apartheid regime is just as ignorant as only looking at the terrors created by Mandela's ANC. I'm sorry but you simply cannot ignore the atrocities of the Umkonto we Sizwe simply because the government of the time was equally as evil. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue_Nose 10 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 But only looking at the actions of the apartheid regime is just as ignorant as only looking at the terrors created by Mandela's ANC. I'm sorry but you simply cannot ignore the atrocities of the Umkonto we Sizwe simply because the government of the time was equally as evil.I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying i can understand why though. and for people to come out and say he was simply a terrorist clearly don't have a clue Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essandoh 21,207 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying i can understand why though. and for people to come out and say he was simply a terrorist clearly don't have a clueHe was an incredibly controversial man. People outright refusing to recognise the good he did as a figurehead of international peace activism need to realise that it doesn't mean they have to condone his ominous activity in earlier life.The whole reason he's so significant is because of the bipolarity of his character and his impact on the society around him, good and bad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Valley 234 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 With all the shit that's going on with us it would be better if we had no minutes silence or applause for a former political leader of another country and just got on with a game of football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEFTONG 60,092 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I have nothing to applaud Mr Mandela for. I wont boo because I was brought up and no dragged up. The whole applause thing was brung in here because the dragged up Mhanky Mhob believe they are a political movement/voice for the poor downtrodden underclass who cant stay silent for one minute if it doesnt suit their left wing rhepublican ideal.And old guy died. Im sure he isnt the only one who has in the last 48hrs. But it does smack of hypocrisy that spfl can make such a fuss for Mr Mandela yet Ignore Rememberence so that one clubs politics and hatred could be hidden.I hope we dont fall into a trap tomorrow. Im gonnae be silent then roar on The Rangers for another 3points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectre 1,663 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I'm shocked and a bit disappointed with some of the comments in here. I do suggest you try looking into the history of apartheid and then see why the people took the actions they felt necessary.Not condemning innocent people being killed, but i can understand why the black people had reached breaking point within the country. how these people had been treated for simply having a different colour of skin was a disgrace, and i'd argue the governments had acted far, far worse than any of the terrorists at the time.Well the good news is that, regardless of the violence and terrorism, the actions of these people certainly resulted in a South Africa that is a far better place to live these days, i mean it's virtually crime free and mindless violence is a thing of the past, and all blacks who were previously disadvantaged now have so many opportunities. It is most certainly not the case that it's only the politicians with questionable backgrounds who are thriving, right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bighouse 1,012 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 This will be hijacked by the great unwashed. "He wus freedum fightir don cha no" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madina 3,808 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Every fecking week we seem to have a minutes silence/applause/black armbands for some reason or other. Such overkill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harlands plater 16,974 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Not sure where i stand on this. Think i might just stand in silence but wear a gaudy shirt under my anorak. radlord 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamgers 1,214 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Stick your mins applause up your fucking arse, applauding is for brain dead tims! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyc06 6,915 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I don't understand why people seem shocked and are even complaining that others have different opinions on the man! My question is this.. Is terrorism & the killing of innocent human beings acceptable because the overall cause was justified?! The fact this is happening at Scottish Football matches is ridiculous! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
govanblue 16,847 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Whether you like it or not, the whole world is united in its public praise of Mandela.If there is one single flicker of disrespect shown in Ibrox tomorrow (which is inevitable), we will get battered from pillar to post over it, and this time it won't just be Scotland, because the whole world will see it as disrespectful. So if we don't want to become public enemy number one tomorrow, then we need to use a bit of Realpolitik.I advocate that irrespective of your personal feelings or opinions, you should just bite your tongue, and comply with the general consensus. You may want to argue that that is the coward's way out, and you have to stand up for your principles.I'd counter that with "stop being a pompous arse and don't f*****g harm my club tomorrow just so that you can feel big and clever."If someone comes to Ibrox, even if they oppose all our principles and the things we hold dear, we still expect them to respect and observe our traditions, so we should do the same tomorrow.Thanks for listening. Bothwellbear 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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